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Bradleigh
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29 Jun 2020, 3:31 am

Pepe wrote:
I literally laugh at the ultra-violence of the game,
Not because I enjoy it,
But because I am astounded how it reflects the easy-going nature of present-day society.


Have you heard of a game called Spec Ops: The Line, I think that it is a generally high considered game for how it uses the violence of the game to make you reconsider preconceptions of gaming attitudes with not being heroic at all. War crimes.


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Pepe
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29 Jun 2020, 7:48 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I literally laugh at the ultra-violence of the game,
Not because I enjoy it,
But because I am astounded how it reflects the easy-going nature of present-day society.


Have you heard of a game called Spec Ops: The Line, I think that it is a generally high considered game for how it uses the violence of the game to make you reconsider preconceptions of gaming attitudes with not being heroic at all. War crimes.


Do you really think the game designers had the intention of changing gaming attitudes, there?
In BF5 they tried to create a "Woke" game,
But they ultimately failed, and the game ended prematurely for this and various other reasons.


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Bradleigh
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29 Jun 2020, 12:18 pm

Pepe wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I literally laugh at the ultra-violence of the game,
Not because I enjoy it,
But because I am astounded how it reflects the easy-going nature of present-day society.


Have you heard of a game called Spec Ops: The Line, I think that it is a generally high considered game for how it uses the violence of the game to make you reconsider preconceptions of gaming attitudes with not being heroic at all. War crimes.


Do you really think the game designers had the intention of changing gaming attitudes, there?
In BF5 they tried to create a "Woke" game,
But they ultimately failed, and the game ended prematurely for this and various other reasons.


Spec Ops totally had a sort of make you reassess your attitude sort of thing, it had loading screens that said things like:
"Do you feel like a hero yet?"
"How many Americans have you killed today?"
"Can you even remember why you came here?"
"This is all your fault."
"If you were a better person, you wouldn't be here."

The final confrontation for the game has your character arguing with an enemy that is revealed to not even exist, trying to justify why you did everything to end up at this situation, what was the point of all the damage you did when there would have been less suffering if you stopped. The main character says that they had no choice, they just had to keep following the path in front of them, which they are told that they could have just gone back at any time, no authority said he had to keep going, and the implication to the player was that you could have just turned the game off at an time. But the character and you the player did not because you wanted to pretend that you were a hero, that you were justified to keep killing people, and a shiny trophy was waiting for you at the end instead of a mirror that shows everything you did to get there, and asking if you feel like a hero.

I kind of suspect that The Last of Us 2 is lowkey doing similar, that you maybe see why Ellie came, but does it actually justify what you do.


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sly279
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30 Jun 2020, 3:14 am

Bradleigh wrote:
I am enjoying the game, maybe not at a super fast pace though, I just got bow.

I did kind of coming in knowing that the game may be sort of making a commentary about violence, so I should try and play nice to not cause unnecessary bloodshed. Managed to hold up well in think I was great in only killing infected, but it kind of feels like I lost that high ground at this point, and I know that there is a lot left. It was probably something like
killing a man and seeing his dog mourn him, before I killed the dog.

I didn’t get that at all. Ellie doesn’t even have a non lethal takedown option. Just grab slit throat, stab in chest, and drop them. Second half of the game definitely makes Ellie more out to be a bad person.



sly279
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30 Jun 2020, 3:30 am

Pepe wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I literally laugh at the ultra-violence of the game,
Not because I enjoy it,
But because I am astounded how it reflects the easy-going nature of present-day society.


Have you heard of a game called Spec Ops: The Line, I think that it is a generally high considered game for how it uses the violence of the game to make you reconsider preconceptions of gaming attitudes with not being heroic at all. War crimes.


Do you really think the game designers had the intention of changing gaming attitudes, there?
In BF5 they tried to create a "Woke" game,
But they ultimately failed, and the game ended prematurely for this and various other reasons.


If you want to play a game that’s going to cause psychological things then play the new modern warfare. It effected me in ways I didn’t expect. Makes me value and understand what police and soldiers go through. We as a society are raised to treat women and children differently, but this game tests your human instincts. In a split second a non combatant becomes a combatant, do you shoot? Or let them kill you and or your comrades? A woman lunges for a remote to explosive bomb, or did she?
Watching a comrade get killed in front of you unexpectedly. All in dark cramp hallways and rooms. People hiding in closers, under beds, in dressers to kill you. It was a memorable experience. I didn’t hesitate, but I did have conflicting feelings after, why did she do it. Why did they do it. And I died a few times to failure to clear areas, lost so,e comrades from it too. Cheers to the developers, well done. They pretray ,as far as I can tell, the chaos of battle well. Another part you are in London during terrorist attacks, having to quickly decide bad guys from innocents, as people are killed all around you. All the whole trying to save as many as you can. After you escort a woman and her daughter to be part of torture of their husband/dad. I couldn’t do it. I refused. I dont know what happen in that room, i dont know if you help torture them. It apparently gets the information. The scene where you walk them to the room is emotional.

It really makes you feel the game and experiences. I wouldn’t recommend it to faint of heart, or if you don’t want to learn what you’re capable of.
I think having anti cop people play those parts might lead to some understanding and middle ground. While I already understood I never felt the feelings. I stared at the one woman’s body for few mins, as some soldier kept yelling at me to move on, we need you.
Good thing it was just a video game, I could see myself having PSTD after such a thing in real life, it’s no wonder so many vets have it.



kraftiekortie
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30 Jun 2020, 6:37 am

Many people do get PTSD after having served in war.



Pepe
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01 Jul 2020, 12:45 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I literally laugh at the ultra-violence of the game,
Not because I enjoy it,
But because I am astounded how it reflects the easy-going nature of present-day society.


Have you heard of a game called Spec Ops: The Line, I think that it is a generally high considered game for how it uses the violence of the game to make you reconsider preconceptions of gaming attitudes with not being heroic at all. War crimes.


Do you really think the game designers had the intention of changing gaming attitudes, there?
In BF5 they tried to create a "Woke" game,
But they ultimately failed, and the game ended prematurely for this and various other reasons.


Spec Ops totally had a sort of make you reassess your attitude sort of thing, it had loading screens that said things like:
"Do you feel like a hero yet?"
"How many Americans have you killed today?"
"Can you even remember why you came here?"
"This is all your fault."
"If you were a better person, you wouldn't be here."

The final confrontation for the game has your character arguing with an enemy that is revealed to not even exist, trying to justify why you did everything to end up at this situation, what was the point of all the damage you did when there would have been less suffering if you stopped. The main character says that they had no choice, they just had to keep following the path in front of them, which they are told that they could have just gone back at any time, no authority said he had to keep going, and the implication to the player was that you could have just turned the game off at an time. But the character and you the player did not because you wanted to pretend that you were a hero, that you were justified to keep killing people, and a shiny trophy was waiting for you at the end instead of a mirror that shows everything you did to get there, and asking if you feel like a hero.

I kind of suspect that The Last of Us 2 is lowkey doing similar, that you maybe see why Ellie came, but does it actually justify what you do.


OMG,
That game is a mind duck.

You aren't killing "people",
You are fragging a digital representation.

And after paying $90 for a game,
You are going to turn it off because some prick is trying to guilt you into it?

If you are being honest here,
My first gut feeling is that they are a bunch of knobs.
But I always withhold judgement until I get to see the entire picture. :wink:

Back to TLOUII,
I like it, but so far it seems more of the same.
I don't have a problem with that though. :wink:


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Pepe
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01 Jul 2020, 12:54 am

sly279 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I literally laugh at the ultra-violence of the game,
Not because I enjoy it,
But because I am astounded how it reflects the easy-going nature of present-day society.


Have you heard of a game called Spec Ops: The Line, I think that it is a generally high considered game for how it uses the violence of the game to make you reconsider preconceptions of gaming attitudes with not being heroic at all. War crimes.


Do you really think the game designers had the intention of changing gaming attitudes, there?
In BF5 they tried to create a "Woke" game,
But they ultimately failed, and the game ended prematurely for this and various other reasons.


If you want to play a game that’s going to cause psychological things then play the new modern warfare. It effected me in ways I didn’t expect. Makes me value and understand what police and soldiers go through. We as a society are raised to treat women and children differently, but this game tests your human instincts. In a split second a non combatant becomes a combatant, do you shoot? Or let them kill you and or your comrades? A woman lunges for a remote to explosive bomb, or did she?
Watching a comrade get killed in front of you unexpectedly. All in dark cramp hallways and rooms. People hiding in closers, under beds, in dressers to kill you. It was a memorable experience. I didn’t hesitate, but I did have conflicting feelings after, why did she do it. Why did they do it. And I died a few times to failure to clear areas, lost so,e comrades from it too. Cheers to the developers, well done. They pretray ,as far as I can tell, the chaos of battle well. Another part you are in London during terrorist attacks, having to quickly decide bad guys from innocents, as people are killed all around you. All the whole trying to save as many as you can. After you escort a woman and her daughter to be part of torture of their husband/dad. I couldn’t do it. I refused. I dont know what happen in that room, i dont know if you help torture them. It apparently gets the information. The scene where you walk them to the room is emotional.

It really makes you feel the game and experiences. I wouldn’t recommend it to faint of heart, or if you don’t want to learn what you’re capable of.
I think having anti cop people play those parts might lead to some understanding and middle ground. While I already understood I never felt the feelings. I stared at the one woman’s body for few mins, as some soldier kept yelling at me to move on, we need you.
Good thing it was just a video game, I could see myself having PSTD after such a thing in real life, it’s no wonder so many vets have it.


I stopped playing Wolfinstein because I wouldn't "kill" the doggies.

When I play Skyrim,
I only "kill" the animals that attack me or other animals.

But this is an emotional indulgence and taking the game too seriously.

While it has been proven, I believe, that people can react emotionally to games as they would in real life,
It is my firm belief that it is the young who should be protected.
Mature people wouldn't be negatively influenced into gaining antisocial traits unless they have a previous mental condition, imo.

Just sayin'. :wink:


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Pepe
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01 Jul 2020, 12:56 am

sly279 wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
I am enjoying the game, maybe not at a super fast pace though, I just got bow.

I did kind of coming in knowing that the game may be sort of making a commentary about violence, so I should try and play nice to not cause unnecessary bloodshed. Managed to hold up well in think I was great in only killing infected, but it kind of feels like I lost that high ground at this point, and I know that there is a lot left. It was probably something like
killing a man and seeing his dog mourn him, before I killed the dog.

I didn’t get that at all. Ellie doesn’t even have a non lethal takedown option. Just grab slit throat, stab in chest, and drop them. Second half of the game definitely makes Ellie more out to be a bad person.


OI!
Spoiler! :evil:


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Bradleigh
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01 Jul 2020, 2:54 am

sly279 wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
I am enjoying the game, maybe not at a super fast pace though, I just got bow.

I did kind of coming in knowing that the game may be sort of making a commentary about violence, so I should try and play nice to not cause unnecessary bloodshed. Managed to hold up well in think I was great in only killing infected, but it kind of feels like I lost that high ground at this point, and I know that there is a lot left. It was probably something like
killing a man and seeing his dog mourn him, before I killed the dog.

I didn’t get that at all. Ellie doesn’t even have a non lethal takedown option. Just grab slit throat, stab in chest, and drop them. Second half of the game definitely makes Ellie more out to be a bad person.


Because she does not have an ability to non-lethally take someone down. Such things like choke outs are really a myth in the idea of being 100% non-lethal. You as the player Ellie could try and avoid every possible confrontation, but it is the simple fact alone that she is doing what she is out of revenge in the first place.

In terms of use of the game I liked that you only actually come into gameplay fight infected for a large stretch at the beginning, before
you see aftermaths of someone else coming through and killing WLF people, that you might have an idea why they might attack the radom stranger they meet. And the first time you do fight one is after you were the one attacked, your horse was killed followed by you being captured and your two captors fight over whether it would be safer to get rid of you now in case you are a threat, or that is not necessary. You are then saved by your friend from your likely bad fate and are forced to kill to save yours and her life.


After that it kind of almost becomes easy to just see that as bad guys that you need to kill to save yourself. But as a player I also recognised the first mentions of something called Scar, the symbol and a note that seemed to me to be easy foreshadowing for why all of these people are as quick to kill as they are.

In particular I think there was a newspaper clipping that has a code or something on it and seems irrelevant, but I suspect is actually incredibly relevant.
It talks about a woman somehow surviving out in the world that apparently lots of people find impressive, and thus I think is about the funding of the other faction that I have not yet come into contact with yet.


I think one of the crazier mini plots you pick up on is leading up to the bow.
You get the first pieces in the basement of a clothing store where you find a child talking about how they want to be good enough for their father who is apparently the best monster killer, and I am not sure you find picture of the bow, but you do see trophies that point that the father is a master archer. Along the way as you read how the WLF took over Fedra you see how they moved people to be closer looked on, some tension of being just as bad, and talks about how the people are afraid of the WLF. They have to protect their own families by not fight back against who seems to be the child mentioned above, which turn gets them all killed because the father got revenge against the people that turned their back by I think purposefully infecting them (he was who locked them up in a shed). And he jumps you in a premade event where you then get his bow.


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TuskenR
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01 Jul 2020, 7:23 am

Wish I never created this thread now.

I have TLOU2 envy :(

Thanks for adding the spoiler tags guys but I peeked anyway :lol:


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sly279
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04 Jul 2020, 1:42 am

Beat it tonight and while I dislike the story, for most part I had good time playing. There were some parts of gameplay where I almost quit cause it was ridiculously hard.



Bradleigh
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05 Jul 2020, 8:33 am

I think that I just hit the midway point of the game, which I am expecting to have a shift. Just taken me 28 hours of game time because I try to be so thorough and get so picky about being efficient in encounters. The one exception I can think of was a place infected with stalkers that was doing in my anxiety that I just wanted out of.

I am enjoying the story, even if I think that for the most part has been fairly easy to predict.


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Pepe
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05 Jul 2020, 6:44 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
I think that I just hit the midway point of the game, which I am expecting to have a shift. Just taken me 28 hours of game time because I try to be so thorough and get so picky about being efficient in encounters. The one exception I can think of was a place infected with stalkers that was doing in my anxiety that I just wanted out of.

I am enjoying the story, even if I think that for the most part has been fairly easy to predict.


I know the feeling. :mrgreen:


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Bradleigh
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05 Jul 2020, 8:04 pm

Pepe wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
I think that I just hit the midway point of the game, which I am expecting to have a shift. Just taken me 28 hours of game time because I try to be so thorough and get so picky about being efficient in encounters. The one exception I can think of was a place infected with stalkers that was doing in my anxiety that I just wanted out of.

I am enjoying the story, even if I think that for the most part has been fairly easy to predict.


I know the feeling. :mrgreen:


They remind me of a particular enemy from I think Dead Space 2 that also happened to be called stalkers. They make some noise but it is practically disorientating in how it could be difficult to keep track of them, and employ methods like hiding being cover as they peek out to look at you. Really feels creepy and at any time could jump you, and that should be the lone ability of the player.

Whistle enemies also felt a little bit that way.


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Bradleigh
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09 Jul 2020, 12:22 pm

Alright, just managed to finish it, and I do have to say, damn it Ellie!

I powered through from second time in the hospital to the end, and I even started to lose some of my dislike for Abby, and it just kind of feels too cruel after seeing the bad couple of days that Abby had with Ellie just having to add onto it. I enjoyed the story, just can't be happy with all the decisions characters made, even if from a character's point it has reasons. Did not expect the after 3 day bit to be so long.

In terms of game difficulty;

Boy did I get tired of the hotel descent level, it really felt like that section of the game was doing my head in by feeling trapped, and really needed to get used to preventing myself from being ambushed, but the boss was no sweat thanks to good planning and a number of pipe bombs. But the hospital boss was probably what killed me the most, feeling like a crazy switch to being more like a Resident Evil game, probably one of the few times I really appreciated the shotgun when trying to finish off the end.


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