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Magna
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28 Jun 2020, 8:42 pm

"Blackface" was used in performances starting in the mid 1800s. Al Jolson was probably the most famous entertainer of his time that performed in blackface including in the movie The Jazz Singer from 1927.

At that time, blackface performances were not impressions of a specific person, they were performances that were racial stereotypes up to and including caricature. From what I gather, at the time the intent of a blackface performance was to portray those black stereotypes.

Would a white person imitating a specific black person by doing an impression of that specific person and that person alone be doing "blackface" if they dressed like that person and wore dark makeup to look more like that specific individual?

Another related question: If a white person did an impression of a specific black person but did not wear dark makeup, would their impression be racist?


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Pepe
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28 Jun 2020, 10:12 pm

Magna wrote:
"Blackface" was used in performances starting in the mid 1800s. Al Jolson was probably the most famous entertainer of his time that performed in blackface including in the movie The Jazz Singer from 1927.

At that time, blackface performances were not impressions of a specific person, they were performances that were racial stereotypes up to and including caricature. From what I gather, at the time the intent of a blackface performance was to portray those black stereotypes.

Would a white person imitating a specific black person by doing an impression of that specific person and that person alone be doing "blackface" if they dressed like that person and wore dark makeup to look more like that specific individual?

Another related question: If a white person did an impression of a specific black person but did not wear dark makeup, would their impression be racist?


My position generally:
If it causes a lot of people distress,
Get rid of it.
If it is just a small number of "Woke" agitators,
Ignore them. :wink:


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cyberdad
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29 Jun 2020, 1:13 am

Magna wrote:
Would a white person imitating a specific black person by doing an impression of that specific person and that person alone be doing "blackface" if they dressed like that person and wore dark makeup to look more like that specific individual?

Another related question: If a white person did an impression of a specific black person but did not wear dark makeup, would their impression be racist?


The only time I've seen it work is with Michael Jackson impersonators (of which there are thousands). Of course MJ wasn't exactly black.



sly279
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29 Jun 2020, 1:26 am

Is whiteface ok?


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29 Jun 2020, 1:58 am

Probably more OK - because it's all about racial power differences.
When the aliens come and take over, we'll get upset when they start wearing blue jeans and sunglasses.
Whereas those humans who paint themselves green will be seen as showing respect to the dominant culture by wanting to join them.



cyberdad
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29 Jun 2020, 2:16 am

sly279 wrote:
Is whiteface ok?


White Chicks? anyone complain about that movie?



naturalplastic
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29 Jun 2020, 2:36 am

Jimmy Fallon had to apologize for a video of him doing Chris Rock while in Black face- when the video surfaced. It was a short bit that Fallon would do for auditions, but not on TV.

So its widely considered racist for a White person to do blackface even when doing an impersonation of a specific person.

My own opinion - if most folks find it offensive then it's offensive. So just dont do it.

Whiteface? If you mean like Marcel Marceau type whiteface (whiteface with a small W)then no. Mime. Thats White folks painting their own faces white (to enhance facial expressions) in a tradition going back centuries in Europe (where virtually everyone has always been White). Its not about one race portraying another race.

If you mean Blacks doing Whiteface (with a capital W) then there isnt much of a history, good, bad, or indifferent, of that in the performing arts.

There was that one major motion picture, kind of remake of "Some Like it Hot", called "White Chicks" by the Wayans Brothers in which two Black guys are forced to disguise themselves as White women, and the two Black actors did Whiteface to look White. But there is no bad history associated with Blacks mocking Whites by using Whiteface. So that one off foray of Hollywood into Whiteface in the early 2000s is not considered offensive the way Blackface is by Whites.



cyberdad
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29 Jun 2020, 3:29 am

naturalplastic wrote:
There was that one major motion picture, kind of remake of "Some Like it Hot", called "White Chicks" by the Wayans Brothers in which two Black guys are forced to disguise themselves as White women, and the two Black actors did Whiteface to look White. But there is no bad history associated with Blacks mocking Whites by using Whiteface. So that one off foray of Hollywood into Whiteface in the early 2000s is not considered offensive the way Blackface is by Whites.


Judging from the $115 million profit "White Chicks" made in the box office I guess it wasn't offensive



Magna
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29 Jun 2020, 7:54 am

Would it be ok for a white person to do an impression of a black person if the white person didn't wear blackface?


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"There is no love of living without despair of life." - Albert Camus

"Ain't nothing but a stranger in this world
I'm nothing but a stranger in this world" -Van Morrison

"Are you Bluish? You don't look Bluish."

AQ-43 (32-50 indicates a strong likelihood of Asperger syndrome or autism).
EQ-14 out of 80
Rdos: Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 173 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 39 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)


Pepe
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29 Jun 2020, 7:58 am

cyberdad wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Is whiteface ok?


White Chicks? anyone complain about that movie?


There are *always* double standards,
And "Selective Outrage",
So, I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is: no.


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,




Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


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29 Jun 2020, 8:17 am

It's come to the point that just about any joke that can be told will inevitably offend someone.

Or is it that no matter what joke is told, someone will inevitably find some way to be offended by it?


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29 Jun 2020, 8:20 am

Fnord wrote:
It's come to the point that just about any joke that can be told will inevitably offend someone.

Or is it that no matter what joke is told, someone will inevitably find some way to be offended by it?


That's my plan. :twisted:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,




Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


Karamazov
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29 Jun 2020, 8:21 am

Magna wrote:
Would it be ok for a white person to do an impression of a black person if the white person didn't wear blackface?


Personally it would depend on whether they were mocking/spoofing the target as an individual, or whether they were going “racial group x, stereotype, job done”.

There’s a BBC radio impressions show called “Dead Ringers” in which Obama was spoofed by a white actor who specifically zoned in on his word choices and sentence formation: don’t remember there ever being a fuss about that at the time.

He does Trump impressions now of course, voice and accent near perfect and starts every one with the same phrase “greetings losers!”.



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29 Jun 2020, 8:31 am

Karamazov wrote:
Magna wrote:
Would it be ok for a white person to do an impression of a black person if the white person didn't wear blackface?


Personally it would depend on whether they were mocking/spoofing the target as an individual, or whether they were going “racial group x, stereotype, job done”.

There’s a BBC radio impressions show called “Dead Ringers” in which Obama was spoofed by a white actor who specifically zoned in on his word choices and sentence formation: don’t remember there ever being a fuss about that at the time.

He does Trump impressions now of course, voice and accent near perfect and starts every one with the same phrase “greetings losers!”.


Humour is having the life squeezed out of it.
An intellectual and comedic dystopia. 8O
The left side of politics will be happy about that. :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,




Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


The_Walrus
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29 Jun 2020, 8:35 am

Karamazov wrote:
Magna wrote:
Would it be ok for a white person to do an impression of a black person if the white person didn't wear blackface?


Personally it would depend on whether they were mocking/spoofing the target as an individual, or whether they were going “racial group x, stereotype, job done”.

There’s a BBC radio impressions show called “Dead Ringers” in which Obama was spoofed by a white actor who specifically zoned in on his word choices and sentence formation: don’t remember there ever being a fuss about that at the time.

He does Trump impressions now of course, voice and accent near perfect and starts every one with the same phrase “greetings losers!”.

Yeah this is a good take.



cyberdad
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29 Jun 2020, 9:06 pm

Magna wrote:
Would it be ok for a white person to do an impression of a black person if the white person didn't wear blackface?


I already answered this. There are thousands of Michael Jackson impersonators