NTs can say whatever they like and we can't

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Fireblossom
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14 Aug 2020, 9:00 am

Joe90 wrote:
It's got nothing to do with the timing, it depends on how popular you are. When you're popular, you can get away with almost anything.


Well, it is possible that in your case it has never been about timing. You'd know better than the rest of us when it comes to your own life.

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Because many people can read social cues and we have trouble with it so it looks like a double standard to us.


THIS!

Of course, double standards are real, but sometimes it's not about them. Sometimes the thing you say or do isn't wrong in itself, but you chose the place and/or timing wrong, which is why you got in trouble while someone else who did the same thing didn't. It's fair, but I wish people would bother to explain what about that situation made it so that doing or saying the thing was wrong.



Joe90
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14 Aug 2020, 11:05 am

Fireblossom wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
It's got nothing to do with the timing, it depends on how popular you are. When you're popular, you can get away with almost anything.


Well, it is possible that in your case it has never been about timing. You'd know better than the rest of us when it comes to your own life.

Quote:
Because many people can read social cues and we have trouble with it so it looks like a double standard to us.


THIS!

Of course, double standards are real, but sometimes it's not about them. Sometimes the thing you say or do isn't wrong in itself, but you chose the place and/or timing wrong, which is why you got in trouble while someone else who did the same thing didn't. It's fair, but I wish people would bother to explain what about that situation made it so that doing or saying the thing was wrong.


I was talking about some NTs being able to get away with saying anything regardless of timing. And an Aspie imagines themselves in the exact moment and exact timing and saying the exact joke but it still feels wrong. That sort of thing.


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SharonB
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14 Aug 2020, 6:22 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Yep, being an Aspie (person on the spectrum) totally sucks balls. If a friendly neighbour suddenly ignores you one day, you are not supposed to get offended and instead respect the fact that they might be having a bad day or something. But if you were having a bad day and ignored your friendly neighbour then you are still in the wrong because you are supposed to respect the fact that they don't know that you are having a bad day and they'll just see you as being rude and will get offended.

Joe, exactly That!

I'm easily "bullied". I was taught to be "nice": forgiving of others and help others and stand up for others. And I do. But when I need those things... nope (or rarely). So I am learning how to be "mean": to set boundaries. Just today my parent agreed my sibling is nasty to me and suggested I meet my siblings' needs better to remedy the situation. Ummmm, no. I'll be meeting my needs better, thank you.



KT67
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14 Aug 2020, 6:38 pm

SharonB wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Yep, being an Aspie (person on the spectrum) totally sucks balls. If a friendly neighbour suddenly ignores you one day, you are not supposed to get offended and instead respect the fact that they might be having a bad day or something. But if you were having a bad day and ignored your friendly neighbour then you are still in the wrong because you are supposed to respect the fact that they don't know that you are having a bad day and they'll just see you as being rude and will get offended.

Joe, exactly That!

I'm easily "bullied". I was taught to be "nice": forgiving of others and help others and stand up for others. And I do. But when I need those things... nope (or rarely). So I am learning how to be "mean": to set boundaries. Just today my parent agreed my sibling is nasty to me and suggested I meet my siblings' needs better to remedy the situation. Ummmm, no. I'll be meeting my needs better, thank you.


Ugh my mum suggests my stepdad is 'on the spectrum' (he isn't diagnosed autistic) & expects me - who's actually diagnosed autistic - to tiptoe around his needs & moods etc.

She tells me that she says the same to him about me but I don't believe her and if so then it has no impact. He just snaps at everyone all the time when he talks instead of trying to moderate his voice at all or say 'please' and 'thank you' and frame things as 'could you' etc...



funeralxempire
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14 Aug 2020, 6:43 pm

Personally I can usually get away with saying pretty much anything. You get bigger boundaries if people know you push them constantly.



xxZeromancerlovexx
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14 Aug 2020, 8:28 pm

I’ve noticed the word “edgy” a lot in this thread. I know from my experience, if I wanted to wear a slightly revealing Halloween costume people would say “that’s not you”. When I’ve cussed I’ve gotten told, “that’s a bad word!” while NTs can wear revealing Halloween costumes and cuss without being treated like a child. I think honestly it’s because NTs are used to the low functioning adults who say or do things that are more adult it’s socially unacceptable because they don’t know the appropriate time and place.


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Joe90
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15 Aug 2020, 5:26 pm

SharonB wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
Yep, being an Aspie (person on the spectrum) totally sucks balls. If a friendly neighbour suddenly ignores you one day, you are not supposed to get offended and instead respect the fact that they might be having a bad day or something. But if you were having a bad day and ignored your friendly neighbour then you are still in the wrong because you are supposed to respect the fact that they don't know that you are having a bad day and they'll just see you as being rude and will get offended.

Joe, exactly That!

I'm easily "bullied". I was taught to be "nice": forgiving of others and help others and stand up for others. And I do. But when I need those things... nope (or rarely). So I am learning how to be "mean": to set boundaries. Just today my parent agreed my sibling is nasty to me and suggested I meet my siblings' needs better to remedy the situation. Ummmm, no. I'll be meeting my needs better, thank you.


I'm glad someone here gets what I'm saying. It's like NTs can get away with being a jerk or being weird or whatever, but we can't. Not that we intend to be jerks, but you know what I mean.
I think it's this "lack of empathy" thing that gets us. The rest of the world defines lacking empathy as psychopaths with no compassion for others, even though it's not the dictionary definition of empathy, but we are made to feel that if we stick up for ourselves, be assertive, be firm, think of ourselves, or even be a bit mean (even in the right situation), we are made to feel that we are selfish jerks with no empathy, even though it may have nothing to do with empathy.

This is why I get so wound up whenever "lack empathy" and "autism" are used in the same sentence. It's not that we lack empathy. It's the rest of society that make us look bad by accusing us of lacking empathy when all we're doing is just taking a break from being everyone's skivvy. We've grown up with kids yelling "you're weird!" to our faces without any guilt, and yet we're scolded and accused of lacking empathy when we called the fat kid fat. Well, maybe we felt like calling the fat kid fat. Maybe the fat kid was in on the bullying we had to suffer for years, so we decided to give one of the mean kids a taste of their own medicine by yelling an insult to their face to see how they like it. Then the fat kid will run to the teacher and tell on you, and the teacher would be all on their side because they're an NT, and will lecture you, "I know they call you names but you must never call them names, it will hurt their feelings."

Guh, I hate being on the autism spectrum! :roll:


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Whale_Tuune
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18 Aug 2020, 8:25 am

It's not just what you say, it's how you say it.

Someone who is dressed well, neatly, has no obvious speech impediment, and projects confidence gives off a "I'm totally normal" vibe. They can say a lot of stuff in a confident, charismatic way, and it's no problem.

Someone who gives off a rather...unique vibe as we tend to, will get labeled "odd" (to put it nicely) by NTs very quickly. Saying weird stuff only serves to confirm that perception.

Social inertia and what people's first impression of you is really is important. It'll affect how they frame your behavior thus onward.


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Joe90
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18 Aug 2020, 9:41 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
It's not just what you say, it's how you say it.

Someone who is dressed well, neatly, has no obvious speech impediment, and projects confidence gives off a "I'm totally normal" vibe. They can say a lot of stuff in a confident, charismatic way, and it's no problem.

Someone who gives off a rather...unique vibe as we tend to, will get labeled "odd" (to put it nicely) by NTs very quickly. Saying weird stuff only serves to confirm that perception.

Social inertia and what people's first impression of you is really is important. It'll affect how they frame your behavior thus onward.


This is very true.

I remember in college when some new students joined our class and I screwed up so bad that I had to have a few days off because I kept on having panic attacks from severe social anxiety and didn't want to show my face.
It all started when we were sitting at computers, and I was next to one of the new boys. My monitor kept flashing and doing weird things, and while the boy next to me was over the other side of the room getting his work from the printer, I looked at his screen to see if his was doing the same. Then I switched his monitor off and put it back on, but he was coming back and said, "what are you doing?" I did explain, but he just said, "you switched my monitor off, what a freak!" And he turned away. I felt so silly and I wished I hadn't done such a stupid thing. He never spoke to me for the rest of the year.

So, yeah, first impressions are very important, and I hate when people say, "people will forget the silly little thing you said or did", to people with social anxiety. Because, believe me, they don't.


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kraftiekortie
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18 Aug 2020, 9:57 am

Yep. I can’t get away with things that “normal” people could get away with.

This is especially true with people who have a heightened “social awareness.”

I’d rather be friends with someone who is “for real,” and who has no “heightened social awareness.”



KT67
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18 Aug 2020, 1:56 pm

Whale_Tuune wrote:
It's not just what you say, it's how you say it.

Someone who is dressed well, neatly, has no obvious speech impediment, and projects confidence gives off a "I'm totally normal" vibe. They can say a lot of stuff in a confident, charismatic way, and it's no problem.

Someone who gives off a rather...unique vibe as we tend to, will get labeled "odd" (to put it nicely) by NTs very quickly. Saying weird stuff only serves to confirm that perception.

Social inertia and what people's first impression of you is really is important. It'll affect how they frame your behavior thus onward.


This actually reminds me of American Psycho where he keeps confessing to the murders but because he's socially normal/socially enviable, nobody believes him...

I'm hyper-aware in a way, KK, but it's my social anxiety that makes me aware rather than being NT. Mum thinks that most people don't actually think too much about others. That I worry too much over it cos of my anxiety. SA & aspergers is a difficult mix.



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18 Aug 2020, 6:11 pm

I probably should have said “a hyper-awareness of what is supposedly normal....and a heightened, misguided sense of embarrassment borne out of a desire not to feel ashamed.”



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18 Aug 2020, 6:36 pm

As the only NT here "represent" (only kidding)

Another factor to consider is timing and context

Sometimes ribald jokes can be uttered if the context allows in conversation. The English are masters of this (Watch BBC dramas). You can maintain a certain civility in conversation while throwing odd statements like "Oh...that's the beach I was conceived"

Whereas just making a statement about "being conceived on that beach" without setting up the context will come across strange and the other NTs will think you have fixations etc...



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20 Aug 2020, 11:25 am

cyberdad wrote:
As the only NT here "represent" (only kidding)

Another factor to consider is timing and context

Teasing: who needs context? I think my AS timing and lack of context is perfect.

I agree in that studies show communication AS-AS and NT-NT go more smoothly than AS-NT (or NT-AS). I wouldn't be surprised that the pairs within a group have similar timing and context needs (communication styles) --- and there's a disconnect between groups. I wonder that humor and saying "whatever" one wants falls into this also. Do AS folks "get" AS jokes more often than NTs and vice versa? I was on a conference call the other day I "met" a woman who appeared to be like-minded to me ---- I had a joke in mind that I suspected would annoy the others (NT?) but that she would appreciate it (AS traits?)... I took the risk. Sure enough, when I shared she howled in laughter, and everyone else quietly grumbled. It was worth it. So I have a sense of timing and I am well aware of context, which is not shared by the majority. One can "out" another member of their communication style that way.



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20 Aug 2020, 11:56 am

I can generally get NT jokes but I don't think NTs always get my jokes. But funnily enough I sometimes find it hard to get AS jokes but AS people (or other non-NT) seem to get my jokes.

Although I'm AS and my boyfriend is NT, we get each other's jokes. Sometimes we have full conversations that are jokey, and we both automatically get it and both laugh. So I think if I get really close to an NT they do get my jokes.


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21 Aug 2020, 4:43 am

I get NT jokes if they're not mean. Even crude ones. I get why mean ones are meant to be funny but I don't get it when people say 'they don't mean anything by it'.

I would only tell that kind of mean joke if I didn't like someone.

People get my jokes but also think I'm joking when I'm not, which is annoying. They randomly laugh at things I say and say I have 'dry wit'. Normally when I'm being particularly specific or descriptive.

My stepdad laughs at everything. I know it's not ok on here to diagnose without dr but he's of the age where he wouldn't have been diagnosed as a kid & his social skills are lacking tbh. He says he laughs, sings and does silly voices/says silly things and quotes stuff when he's happy.