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honeytoast
Deinonychus
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06 Sep 2020, 9:03 pm

I'll spare some details because some of the content isn't really suited for this forum.

I'm in a group chat with a group of people that I do not know well. It's more associates than friendship. They tend to talk a LOT about current social issues and are very left leaning. I am not an active participate because frankly, a lot of the stuff they spew is stupid and conisting of buzzwords. The atmosphere is very "agree with us or you are an awful person", at least in my opinion.

The topic somehow shifted to a conversation about dieting/fatphobia/etc. The mindset is that being overweight is fine, and fatness should be consider attractive. There was also talks about how you can be overweight and still healthy.

I responded to a person's comment about something and said that maybe we shouldn't be so keen to have fatness be accepted as healthy, that we were not meant for a completely sedentary lifestyle, and that companies making food that people eat aren't healthy, along with a promote of binge eating in our society. I made sure to be polite, not be rude, and say that you can be unhealthy being thin.

My comment was not very receptive, and I felt that I was being passively aggressive attacked. Because of this, I started to lash out and say that maybe people will listen to me if I gained all my weight back. I got more people on me for that comment because it was rude (as if they weren't being rude), and that I shouldnt be making that comparison as it can be like someone who was poor, then became rich, and started to complain about poor people. (I don't get that saying, but doesn't matter.)

I was told to "read the room" and then I made a snarky comment about being autistic and then I was being called manipulative. At that point, I felt really hounded by these people. It did not seem fair to me to be called that for simply mentioning that couldn't read the room. I apologized for my comments because at that point I started to have a meltdown and an anxiety attack. I did not expect them to basically berate me for suggesting that something was the opposite.

Sure, maybe it was manipulative at the time, but as someone who was told to "read the room" and "why did you say that" and "stop being blunt", I have zero tolerance for that. Things calmed down, and I reached out to the person who called me manipulative to explain my side. I don't think they've read, or ignored my message.

I was particularly in the wrong here I know, but I don't think I was being manipulative. Since that person said that, it's been making me second guess things, and feel really bad about my actions. Am I really, or am I not?

Sorry that this is rambly. Usually, this stuff doesn't bother me but this is. Thanks for reading how long this is.


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League_Girl
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06 Sep 2020, 9:13 pm

What does "read the room" mean?

Quote:
The topic somehow shifted to a conversation about dieting/fatphobia/etc. The mindset is that being overweight is fine, and fatness should be consider attractive. There was also talks about how you can be overweight and still healthy.


The moment I got to this part, I knew you were not in the wrong here. All this HAES stuff is a bunch of BS and like how the earth being flat is. They are the ones who are toxic and doing the gas lighting. They are the ones who are lying and being manipulative. They are anti science.


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honeytoast
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06 Sep 2020, 9:22 pm

League_Girl wrote:
What does "read the room" mean?

Quote:
The topic somehow shifted to a conversation about dieting/fatphobia/etc. The mindset is that being overweight is fine, and fatness should be consider attractive. There was also talks about how you can be overweight and still healthy.


The moment I got to this part, I knew you were not in the wrong here. All this HAES stuff is a bunch of BS and like how the earth being flat is. They are the ones who are toxic and doing the gas lighting. They are the ones who are lying and being manipulative. They are anti science.


From my own perspective "reading the room" is meant to "understand what you are saying. it may be hurting someone around you, or it is not appropiate." In that specific context, it was in regards to someone who has body image issues and seemed to get upset at my comments. There were also posts that happened after my original that I didn't see, because all I saw was the few passive-aggressive comments that was talking about me, but never mentioned my name.

I'm extremely sensitive, and not the best at social issues, though I manage to get along with people. This was just too much for me to handle. I agree with you, HAES is nothing but lies and endangering people. Of course we should not discriminate fat people, but it's not the same as race or gender in my opinion. You cannot change what you were born with, but you can change your weight. It is very hard for some people, but that doesn't mean to believe feel good propaganda and give up.

I just cannot stop thinking that I am 100% in the wrong, and I am bad for disrupting the conversation with a negative opinion. I am being manipulative because I couldn't ""read the room"".


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emotrtkey
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06 Sep 2020, 10:15 pm

Some people with a low self-esteem try to improve it by convincing themselves their problems are genetic although they unconsciously probably don't really believe it. If someone disagrees, it will remind them that they're flawed and their low self-esteem will cause them to get upset. They really should just accept that they aren't perfect and that being overweight or obese isn't a big deal since everyone has flaws.

Quote:
I just cannot stop thinking that I am 100% in the wrong and I am bad for disrupting the conversation with a negative opinion. I am being manipulative because I couldn't ""read the room"".


I don't think there's a right or wrong in this situation. Everyone has different opinions. People disrupt conversations and offer opinions other people don't like all the time so it definitely doesn't make you a bad person. It sounds like you tried to help them, which is a good thing, but they weren't interested because of their own issues. As far as being manipulative, I've had people say that about me many times when it wasn't my intention. I just accept that it's part of life that people are going to misunderstand me because I'm autistic and don't let it bother me.



roronoa79
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07 Sep 2020, 2:15 am

It sounds to me like the situation just got escalated out of proportion more than anything else. Though it is hard to tell without knowing all that was said by those involved. I wouldn't say I agree with everything you think about that particular topic, but passive aggression on their part is not healthy or constructive. People should have tried to have a more civil discussion because it's a complex topic where lots of factors should be taken into account. It's not so black and white that you should be attacked for saying something 'wrong'.

You seem to realize that lashing out wasn't the right response, which is good. It can be hard to not do that when things become hostile so suddenly. You really make it sound like you felt backed into a corner by these people and it's not exactly easy to not get defensive in that situation.

The 'read the room' thing was insensitive if they knew that you're autistic, but maybe not so much if they didn't. It's totally understandable that that struck such a nerve with you--especially with both autism and anxiety.
It sounds like they took your comment as being dismissive of them critiquing what you were saying. It's hard to call it manipulative since you weren't trying to be manipulative, but it could easily be construed as manipulative. It might make those people feel trapped--like, if they are critical of your behavior they worry they will be accused of being ableist against autistic people, and if they don't feel like they can be critical of your behavior they worry they can't be honest with you if they take issue with something you do.
I worry here I'm sounding too sympathetic to these people--I'm going to guess plenty of these people were NT's who don't know what it's like to have autism or anxiety, much less both at the same time (like me too). I really struggle to have conversations about controversial topics with those people because I have to worry about both potential hostility and people misinterpreting my actions because they don't understand where I'm coming from mentally.

Honestly, it sounds like these people should have tried to read you better before assuming whatever they assumed about you.

None of this is helped by the fact that manipulation kind of exists in the eye of the beholder even if you weren't trying to be manipulative. I've been guilty of this before. If someone thinks they're being manipulated, then they're going to feel the same whether the person they think was trying to manipulate them or not. I worry about this constantly, especially when I'm upset and lash out at people without thinking about what effect my words might have. I wish I could offer better advice on that front :(

You've clearly thought about this a lot and feel bad about how things went. I hope things go well with the person you reached out to. Don't get too down on yourself if they don't respond or try to understand your perspective.
(and don't worry feel bad about rambling--I'm not one to criticize people for rambling)


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Pepe
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07 Sep 2020, 5:07 am

honeytoast wrote:

I'm in a group chat with a group of people that I do not know well. It's more associates than friendship. They tend to talk a LOT about current social issues and are very left leaning. I am not an active participate because frankly, a lot of the stuff they spew is stupid and conisting of buzzwords. The atmosphere is very "agree with us or you are an awful person", at least in my opinion.


What you experienced is something called "groupthink".
I'm guessing you heard of that.
Left-leaning people are particularly known to embrace this group hug mentality.
It is a collective hive mindset that seems to embrace emotional, rather than rational, considerations. 8)


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If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


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"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."

Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


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Pepe
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07 Sep 2020, 5:08 am

League_Girl wrote:
What does "read the room" mean?



Feeling "The Vibe", man. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."

Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


THERE WILL BE NO COUP IN AMERICA!


honeytoast
Deinonychus
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07 Sep 2020, 7:36 am

Pepe wrote:
honeytoast wrote:

I'm in a group chat with a group of people that I do not know well. It's more associates than friendship. They tend to talk a LOT about current social issues and are very left leaning. I am not an active participate because frankly, a lot of the stuff they spew is stupid and conisting of buzzwords. The atmosphere is very "agree with us or you are an awful person", at least in my opinion.


What you experienced is something called "groupthink".
I'm guessing you heard of that.
Left-leaning people are particularly known to embrace this group hug mentality.
It is a collective hive mindset that seems to embrace emotional, rather than rational, considerations. 8)


Learned the hard way I am very much not suited for groupthink. For many topics I like to see both sides but I guess if I say that being fat is bad and maybe losing weight to help your health is okay, IM the bad person.


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honeytoast
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07 Sep 2020, 7:37 am

[quote=“roronoa79”][/quote]
No, I understand what you mean. I think the fact is that I was taken off guard by the sudden hostility. I’ve been able to have these conversations with people before, and I could have it again, why not now? I was suddenly confronted with hostility, and I was trying to stand up for myself. I can be more assertive online.

The thing is a lot of people knew I was autistic. The person who told me to read the room maybe didn’t, I had no idea. I was called manipulative by another person who DID know. And they are ignoring my message, so that sucks.

I think I want to leave the group chat and block everyone involved, but I have some of these people added on my friend’s list. I’m just nervous that I’m going to get some people after me...


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Jiheisho
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08 Sep 2020, 9:09 pm

Perhaps you just need a better environment with better people. Although, to be honest, a nuanced discussion is really hard to have on the internet.