Has a teacher ridiculed you for asking too many questions?

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Jayo
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26 Jul 2021, 7:16 pm

I read a few random articles on "teacher bullying" of ASD/HFA students in schools, which is, quite indignantly, just beyond the pale :evil:
It's beyond a simpler case of the teacher turning a blind eye to others bullying a student with special needs.

The passage below from one such article illustrates a flippant attitude demonstrated by one teacher towards an autistic student. Heck I remember back in the late 80s in grades 9-10 I asked a teacher a clarifying question on some expectation of an assignment or whatever, and could detect some derisive snickers from others, and subtle contempt from the teacher - even though us Aspie folk are not naturally attuned to subtle emotions and state of mind in general, we (or at least I) seem to be more attuned to it when it's an affront towards us :x

Then I recall getting the "what's wrong with you" comments, or "it's like you're really smart, but you're not all there at the same time" from peers, based on my asking these "obvious" questions.

Note that said questions aren't so much about the substance, but about the process...that is, I understood certain concepts, terms, and logic / reasoning, but would tend to "misfire" when trying to arrive at a coherent vision of the process that was expected at me. I think it was due to the "parts to whole" problem of Aspergers as well as the executive dysfunction (which is what makes it principally a social learning disability, but impacts in this area as well).

As you might have predicted, this discouraged me from raising clarifying questions on assignment expectations & process in later grades, however legitimate they may have been - so my parent-teacher interviews were fraught with the same "Jayo always seems to misinterpret the purpose of assignments" (and oh, by the way, he doesn't have any friends in the class) :roll:
So then I asked the teacher separately after class, but used this sparingly as I didn't want to be too annoying... b/c hey, teachers are human too, and if you're on their sh*t list then they might intentionally give you bad grades regardless just out of spite :( like, just enough to show conscientiousness, but not so much that I was "special". As I adapted this approach in Grade 12 it certainly paid off and thus was a big foray into "masking" :P

If any of you have read "The Work Survival Guide for Aspergers" by Barbara Bissonnette, she openly acknowledges that reluctance to ask "obvious" questions at work is likely a by-product of bullying in one's formative years. I can totally relate to that given my history!! 8O



Jayo
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26 Jul 2021, 7:17 pm

Oh here's that passage I was referring to...

Michelle said her teenage son was also bullied by a teacher.

"When my son is not sure what is expected from him in an academic task, he tends to ask a lot of questions.

"And so the teacher shamed him in front of the rest of the class and used phrases like, 'oh well, you should be able to figure this out yourself'.

"And then when he tried to ask another question, he was actually sent out of the class and excluded for the rest of the lesson."

Michelle's son is now home schooled.



HeroOfHyrule
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26 Jul 2021, 7:32 pm

I had experiences like that in school. Teachers treated me like I was purposely wasting their time, and would encourage other kids to pick on me for not knowing what to do. This was part of the reason I was behind in most subjects, since I learned to just not ask anything and to just sort of give up on trying to understand things I needed more help with.

I'm glad I went to online school for high school though, because I noticed the teachers didn't act like that as a lot of the kids there had learning or behavioural issues, so they were very patient and helpful.


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Trogluddite
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26 Jul 2021, 7:33 pm

Yes, that all sounds very familiar - right down to the thing of it being about the "procedural" side of things. And not just teachers, either - in the workplace, dealing with officials in tax/benefit offices, healthcare appointments, making arrangements for social occasions, etc. But, for sure, most ironic at school, because it is specifically a place for learning things!


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Mountain Goat
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26 Jul 2021, 7:55 pm

Jayo wrote:
Oh here's that passage I was referring to...

Michelle said her teenage son was also bullied by a teacher.

"When my son is not sure what is expected from him in an academic task, he tends to ask a lot of questions.

"And so the teacher shamed him in front of the rest of the class and used phrases like, 'oh well, you should be able to figure this out yourself'.

"And then when he tried to ask another question, he was actually sent out of the class and excluded for the rest of the lesson."

Michelle's son is now home schooled.


That is not teacher bullying. I was bullied by a teacher when I was 5 years old. What you said above is very tame in comparisson. I was smacked and shouted at regularly for no reason other then looking at her or looking out the window...(When I had to spend the whole day just sitting there on my own, every day. I thought that was normal! I did not know I was supposed to be taught and not supposed to be hit). I was purposly not taught and had to be in a room on my own every day and miss the breaks all except having lunch. The teacher only did this to me. She did not do it to the others. And why? Because of one small incident where my Mum had spent hours with me doing reading homework over and above the two or three pages that was required. I knew the book! The next day the teacher sat me on her lap but the strong scent of her perfume and cigarette smoke was a trigger to me and it turned me non verbal. She sent a note home with me that I had not done my reading homework. My Mum sent a note back saying I had.
The teacher blew her cool and took it out on me for the whole year. Some of the other pupils in the class did not even know I was part of their class that year!
I was pretty much very shy and hardly said a word anyway in school so not talking in school was natural. And not being allowed out in the breaks was a blessing because I had been bullied daily by a kid in my class (Who I know is on the spectrum), so I had a years grace from the bullying!
To me, what you describe was normal for about a quarter to a third of teachers and was pretty mild. The teachers we had that were not mild were physical. I would on occasions get hit or shouted at and picked on for being too quiet in class and trying to hide from one teacher in secondary school. Thankfully most teachers were good.
The problem is with primary school was one had the same teacher for a whole year.

For some teachers I was scared of being punished for not looking at them when they were teaching as they insisted on eye contact and knew I did not like doing it, so they made me do it. I was petrified of being singled out and asked questions. I hardly spoke.

One wonders why some have to learn how to mask. Well now you know!



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27 Jul 2021, 9:28 am

Not really.


Mostly I was ridiculed by teachers for being too out of place, possibly for unable to understand the situation and lack of interest.


I always have this memory -- a time where I seriously have near barely any language comprehension.
Where my verbal references isn't as whole, or as coherent until at my teenage years.

A time where I could mostly grasp context with tones, volumes and pitches -- how words actually sounds like, but without the whole translation into verbalized context into actual words used into communication...


So... Yeah, how am I able to even ask question with that kind of mode of communication?

I would've have a lot of questions then, I might've have even more questions had I've able to understand what was going on then.

But it would be more complex than what my verbal abilities would allowed then.

I'm just too busy trying to figure words contexts to ask questions about what was being said and written.


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Fnord
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27 Jul 2021, 2:30 pm

Grrr :evil: Mrs. Pease, my first-year Algebra teacher would rather have given me a ten-minute lecture in front of the class (instead of taking ten seconds to answer my question) on why I should have been able to understand it, but there must be something wrong with me because I was the only one who felt it necessary to ask questions in her class when anyone with even half a brain... (et cetera), and then (after I felt too embarrassed to ask any more questions) she would berate me for doing poorly on the tests and homework, and how could it be possible that someone who was supposed to be as smart as me could not comprehend the simplicity of third-order quadratic equations when even her dog could to them in his sleep... (et cetera).

I hated that woman until the day she died.

Maybe I still do.



Texasmoneyman300
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09 Oct 2021, 10:18 am

yes i was once told i was disrespectful by a teacher for asking for too many questions.



AngelL
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20 Oct 2021, 8:08 am

I attended kindergarten in a small town and the teacher just loved on me from day one. Then we moved and I started first grade in a new school. Because of the move, I began classes two weeks late. Even if I hadn't been 'different', in the two weeks that I missed, the social hierarchy had already been set and I was on the outside. Then there was my teacher. Up until that time, the only experience I had with teachers was Miss Nancy from Romper Room (television show) and my kindergarten teacher - both of which were wonderful. I was not prepared for a sadistic teacher to set the tone for the next six years. She was intentionally cruel toward me and encouraged the other children to be so as well.

My experience was so surreal that for years I thought I must have misremembered it because there was no way a teacher could be so horrible to a young child. Then, she sought me out after I became an adult. She was an alcoholic and had joined a 12-step program. Part of her recovery included making amends to people she had caused harm to. She owned everything I remembered and made what I believe, was a sincere apology along with demonstrating sincere remorse.



Jayo
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27 Oct 2021, 12:19 pm

AngelL wrote:
I attended kindergarten in a small town and the teacher just loved on me from day one. Then we moved and I started first grade in a new school. Because of the move, I began classes two weeks late. Even if I hadn't been 'different', in the two weeks that I missed, the social hierarchy had already been set and I was on the outside. Then there was my teacher. Up until that time, the only experience I had with teachers was Miss Nancy from Romper Room (television show) and my kindergarten teacher - both of which were wonderful. I was not prepared for a sadistic teacher to set the tone for the next six years. She was intentionally cruel toward me and encouraged the other children to be so as well.

My experience was so surreal that for years I thought I must have misremembered it because there was no way a teacher could be so horrible to a young child. Then, she sought me out after I became an adult. She was an alcoholic and had joined a 12-step program. Part of her recovery included making amends to people she had caused harm to. She owned everything I remembered and made what I believe, was a sincere apology along with demonstrating sincere remorse.


OK, well I'm glad she expressed some contrition for her despicable behaviour...she wasn't an irredeemable psycho-narcissist, then.

On a separate note, I'm surprised you mentioned that there was already a "social hierarchy" in Grade 1...those things don't usually take place until the double-digits age-wise, at least in my experience and impressions from TV?
I mean, in the earlier years of primary school, it's all about kids birthday parties with a lower social acceptance threshold, there's no "jocks" or other cliques with pop culture preferences, talent groups, popular kids etc...?



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29 Nov 2021, 4:21 pm

Oh yes. I've had 1 teacher tell me that I should never ask why they ask me questions I find invasive, because they're a teacher and therefore are allowed. Like... no. That's not how it works.
Luckily they are an exception to the rule - most of the teachers at my school are great!


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AngelL
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30 Nov 2021, 3:54 pm

Jayo wrote:
On a separate note, I'm surprised you mentioned that there was already a "social hierarchy" in Grade 1...those things don't usually take place until the double-digits age-wise, at least in my experience and impressions from TV?
I mean, in the earlier years of primary school, it's all about kids birthday parties with a lower social acceptance threshold, there's no "jocks" or other cliques with pop culture preferences, talent groups, popular kids etc...?


In my experience, the onset of rigid social rules begin much, much earlier than school. The pink nursery awaiting the arrival of the birth of a new, bouncing baby...? We expect and can fill in the final word with 'girl'. As for hierarchal structures, I've found that tend to start earlier in some areas than others. On either end of the economic continuum, for instance. I've never watched the show but as I looked for an example, I wondered if 'Beverly Hills 90210' would be a good example. Though the folks were no doubt older, I would expect that in a very affluent community hierarchal structures (connected to wealth and status) would begin very early. i.e. Children learn they can't associate with people "below them" very early.

I also see social hierarchies starting very early in neighborhoods or communities consisting of blue-collar working poor. It's still about the haves and the have nots, but rather than money being the focus - it's drive, willingness, work ethic, etc. The kids of the mechanic can't play with the kids of the nursing home worker because the latter doesn't keep their lawn nice. It's been my experience too, that the more diverse the community, the later social hierarchies are programmed into the children. Your mileage may vary.