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Would you put your gender pronouns in a work email?
I'm cisgender and I would add my pronouns 16%  16%  [ 5 ]
I'm cisgender and I would not add my pronouns 66%  66%  [ 21 ]
I'm genderqueer (trans, non-binary, other) and I would add my pronouns 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
I'm genderqueer (trans, non-binary, other) and I would not add my pronouns 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 32

funeralxempire
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04 May 2021, 4:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
Should people be asked to disclose their pronouns, or should they be expected to disclose their pronouns whenever they feel it is necessary?

If I, as a cisgender individual, choose to volunteer my pronouns (e.g., he, him, his), would it be considered an offensive exercise of undeserved cis-privilege?


It more likely to be interpreted as showing support since you'd be helping make sure that not all of the men who are disclosing are transmen.


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05 May 2021, 5:07 am

Fnord wrote:
Should people be asked to disclose their pronouns, or should they be expected to disclose their pronouns whenever they feel it is necessary?

If I, as a cisgender individual, choose to volunteer my pronouns (e.g., he, him, his), would it be considered an offensive exercise of undeserved cis-privilege?


Good questions.
I feel strongly that people should never be put in a position of having to publicly state their pronouns - because for some people who are either still questioning their gender identity or are not yet 'out' in their identity this would be highly problematic.
So I think where people are being encouraged to state their pronouns any such encouragement should always be prefaced by saying this is optional. There should never be any implicit pressure to do so.

My feeling on the second question, based on the poll results to date, is that volunteering your pronouns would be welcomed as a rare instance of support from a member of the cis-gender majority.



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05 May 2021, 1:59 pm

I've only received emails from one person who stated their pronouns, and I was like "what is this?" They were obviously a lot more woke than me. The fact that the OP had to explain what cisgender means is proof that a lot of people don't get this whole issue.

I hope I don't have to call someone "zir" in this lifetime. I'm an old dog and not about to learn new tricks.


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quite an extreme
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05 May 2021, 4:34 pm

Soliloquist wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
So I've put (she/her or they/them)

Just don't tell the cat.


Seems right of the cat for such an idiotic statement. :twisted:


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funeralxempire
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05 May 2021, 4:41 pm

quite an extreme wrote:
Soliloquist wrote:
MrsPeel wrote:
So I've put (she/her or they/them)

Just don't tell the cat.


Seems right of the cat for such an idiotic statement. :twisted:


Seems more reasonable to smack transphobic trolls who bully well-respected posters off of the site.


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quite an extreme
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07 May 2021, 6:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Seems more reasonable to smack transphobic trolls who bully well-respected posters off of the site.


Because of KT67? I liked her but didn't realized her problems. I'm not responsible for those so get lost with it. I'm not empathetic so get lost with any expectations that I should be it. What do you think Asperger's is? Being overly empathetic regarding the feelings of women or being overly emotional? I'm nice but emotionally pretty hard and very unaware of the feelings of others. She was right that I'm very protective. I am towards the ones that I like. Not only woman but also the guys who are joining me and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm even expecting of them that they are risking their ass for me too. Get lost with any kind of political or emotional correctness and how I have to be. If you are enjoying that have fun with it but don't expect all others to share your feelings regarding that or having empathy with the ones who always and everywhere are feeling hurt because of nothing but normal speaking.
Why am I still saying she? Because her postings had no male characteristics nor her reaction regarding my posting. Sweetie? No guy would have called me that. :heart: :twisted:


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Last edited by quite an extreme on 07 May 2021, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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07 May 2021, 6:50 pm

quite an extreme wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Seems more reasonable to smack transphobic trolls who bully well-respected posters off of the site.


Because of KT67? I liked her but didn't realized her problems. I'm not responsible for those so get lost with it. I'm not empathetic so get lost with any expectations that I should be it. What do you think Asperger's is? Being overly empathetic regarding the feelings of women or being overly emotional? I'm nice but emotionally pretty hard and very unaware of the feelings of others. She was right that I'm very protective. I am towards the ones that I like. Not only woman but also the guys who are joining me and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm even expecting of them that they are risking their ass for me to. Get lost with any kind of political or emotional correctness and how I have to be. If you are enjoying that have fun with it but don't expect all others to share your feelings regarding that or having empathy with the ones who always and everywhere are feeling hurt because of nothing but normal speaking.
Why am I still saying she? Because her postings had no male characteristics nor her reaction regarding my posting. Sweetie? No guy would have called me that. :heart: :twisted:


You don't get to tell other posters who they are. Intentionally misgendering posters is bullying and warrants a response from the moderators. Whining about political correctness as a distraction from your bullying behaviour doesn't change what the behaviour is. Considering that there's a substantial number of transgender posters I'm surprised there isn't already a policy on this sort of transphobic bullying.


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07 May 2021, 7:59 pm

It's one thing to make a mistake and accidentally misgender someone, it's quite another to purposefully go out of your way to do so. Even if you don't understand, it costs you nothing to respect a person's wishes and to go against these wishes for the sole reason of them not fitting into your mindset of the world hurts everyone involved.

As for the topic at hand, I believe that such practices, although well-intentioned, can be damaging towards closeted trans individuals. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have closets to come out of, but this isn't an ideal world and to pretend otherwise would be negligent.

Adding pronouns should always be a choice and people should not be pressured to. There's always a risk with coming out and disclosing such information (even as a cis person, as people may assume otherwise and treat me poorly). I understand this is why such practices are being suggested, to normalise stating pronouns. However, this comes across as overly-idealistic and may pressure closeted trans people who aren't ready to come out to do so (plus it could be considered overlooking passing trans people). Coming out should be your choice and your choice alone, it can be a daunting experience and there is often a reason why someone hasn't come out. People should not be rushed, it's important to find security in your identity and prepare yourself for what may come as an openly out person if you do wish to come out at a later date. Not that you owe people anything. But if you believe that someone may react negatively and potentially put your safety at risk, it can be useful to have a plan on how to escape them and gain independence if possible which may involve cutting them from your life before coming out.

I've only ever stated my pronouns in LGBT support areas and groups, because it was relevant to the conversation.


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quite an extreme
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08 May 2021, 4:35 am

OK - now I know where you are coming from.
"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me."
I know this rhyme only because it's part of an endless number of English songs. From ACDC to Rihanna ...
Political correctness is a very female thing for not hurting the emotions of others and it's a very male one to keep a straight, possibly reckless and overly direct language. It's even normal among guys to perceive anything that is to much of the opposite of a direct language as a common indicator of an obviously dishonest way of your opposite.
OK you seem to be the fighter for Orwell's Newspeak and I'm the advocatus diaboli who says get lost with that.
Most people are usually pretty selfish at what they expect of others. And not even few are also into developing a group behavior and also related thinking. It's part of their group identity. Political correctness is usually an important part of that. The Hitler salute of the Nazi's for instance. Or the right way of dressing in Islamic countries. The people who didn't care - there weren't ever many who dared and even less who survived it for very long. The whole thing doesn't even ends here.
It's usually related to establishing of social hierarchies. People want to be treated regarding their positions in those and for this they are trying to care about themself matching the expectations of the required political correctness and care that all other people do this as well. Not even few are trying to earn more respect by their peers by bullying outsiders and the ones who don't care about their rules. Not even few autists became bullied in their life's because it's part of that. funeralxempire who calls me a bully seems me to be a pretty one himself if it comes to that.
You may care about the feelings of the members of your social group. But you shouldn't demand of all people on the world to do that!
Female genital mutilation is very related to just that and it's usually women in this regions who are demanding that this is done to all other women too. It's usually other women who put a very high social pressure on the uncircumcised ones there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation
May be you are right and it's nicer to care about such feelings. May be you are wrong and you shouldn't care to much about the wishes of the ones who expect you to be a way that is whatever for political or sexual reasons. I prefer to care about the people but don't care overly much about their expectations regarding the way that they want me to be and I don't have to like all the things that all others are into. :roll:


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08 May 2021, 7:35 am

With a history of warnings for making negative generalized attacks on groups - and now this sexist nonsense plus an egregious transphobic attack on KT67 - quite an extreme has been banned from Wrong Planet.


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shortfatbalduglyman
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08 May 2021, 9:11 am

Ftm trans


My job doesn't communicate through email usually but if they did then pronouns get included



MrsPeel
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09 May 2021, 7:49 am

Cornflake wrote:
With a history of warnings for making negative generalized attacks on groups - and now this sexist nonsense plus an egregious transphobic attack on KT67 - quite an extreme has been banned from Wrong Planet.


Thank you, he was making me uncomfortable.



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17 Jul 2021, 3:49 pm

It bugs me because there's often no way to determine what pronouns someone might prefer before contacting them, and it also means that even if writing to someone later, if you have a hundred or a thousand people to contact, you can't auto-fill pronouns from their name (in the majority of cases), you have to go digging around for any time they might have mentioned it. It just seems incredibly inefficient.

Why not just have a single pronoun set for everyone? Was it Asimov who wrote stories where every human's title (condensed from Mister, Mrs, Miss, Master, Madam etc) was just "M"? Could we have something similar? That way everyone gets the same thing and there's no actual need to have a giant argument over something that, honestly, seems embarrassingly easy to solve in a single stroke. Decide on ze/xe/they/per/whatever and have done with it. Simplifies grammar as well, which is a bonus in the long run even if it's a pain in the short term as language switches over. And it means you'd never have to guess.

Are there really logical, useful arguments for having different pronouns for different people? (I mean, hey, I don't know, maybe there are.) I've just never seen anything other than "tradition", which is really just "inertia".



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17 Jul 2021, 4:18 pm

Someone at my work suggested that if more cisgendered people add their pronouns to their emails it will make someone trans who feels they need to disclose their pronouns feel less awkward about doing it because a lot of people are doing it already. They won't be that one rando who sticks out.

I've added it to my email signature because I have a weird name. Many times in my life I've had people balk at my name. How dare I be so uppity as to have a name they've never heard of. To be fair those types of people probably balk at pronouns too. But as a person with a weird name (like I chose it, my parents did. I'm not trying to test anyone's reality by having my own name :roll: ) and as a severe/not very smiley presenting aspie I feel like I need to build bridges with people and be more accessible/approachable.

If someone sees my name and has never heard of it before, they at least know that it's a female name, so that breaks down a barrier.

For about 6 months I kept hearing a certain name I had never heard of being mentioned. I genuinely thought it was the name of an IT or functional department. One day this Greek guy gave a presentation that I attended. It was this guy all along. It's a Greek name, not a department. I felt very silly.

Pronouns may have helped in that case, but I had never received an email from him, only heard his name being mentioned with regards to work being carried out.