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Pepe
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27 Sep 2021, 9:17 pm

Jakki wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Jakki wrote:
i realize medicin
e for all is a hot topic in the US.. but quite honestly have had to endure much medical care in this fine country of ours and it would be nice . If we all had equal healthcare. but it just isnt the way it is in reality . These people portraying themselves as doctors etc. are serious practicioners of quackery .Except for the very basic needs . Have seen things you would not consider legal performed by people with medical licenses. It seems the current logic is to maintain people in a sick state so they can go on padding their wallets. And seeming justifying exaggerating peoples misery .
They do not practice curative medicine but rather only treat symptomatic medicine. It seens if no other reason except to justify their own existence and are taught that from medical school onwards.


Are things improving under the Democrats?


Absolutely Not ...!


And that is the fault of the Republicans, who aren't in power, right? <disingenuous.> :mrgreen:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


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DW_a_mom
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27 Sep 2021, 9:20 pm

Pepe wrote:

I have a problem with Blab's super-duper hyperpartisanship.
He blames *everything/k* on the republicans and, under the circumstances, that is logically very difficult to believe.

Recently I have learnt about 2 "conservative" Democrats.
Well, it seems they are contributing to the political inertia.
May I suggest people vote them out, for a start? 8)

BTW, which party did you vote for, in the last election? :mrgreen:


I started skipping posts I felt were statements of personal opinion, unproductive, or not actual answers to the questions posed.

I did my best to provide the answers.

I think you can guess how I voted in the last election, but I consider that inappropriate information for me to post on a public message board.

I can honestly say that changing healthcare was not on the top of most voters' list. The goal for most Democratic voters was to KEEP the progress made under Obama and PREVENT Republicans from sending healthcare back to where it was before the ACA (otherwise known as Obamacare). The DREAM list of the most progressive Democrats is single payer, but that would be a MASSIVE change that really wouldn't be workable in the middle of a pandemic. Moderate Democrats favor a Medicare buy-in option, which is theoretically achievable even at this point in time, but conservatives have been successfully painting it as a foot in the door to socialized medicine, which most Americans really do not want, and the infrastructure package has been a higher priority. There are only so many hours available to negotiate and write legislation.

I personally like having moderate Democrats involved in any discussion. Senator Manchin may have outsized power at the moment, but that is because he is doing his best to represent the constituencies that elected him. Senator Manchin would not be replaced by another Democrat; he comes from a conservative state. If Democrats want to keep his seat, they have to understand what he can sell to his voters. In an ideal world this sort of situation is a useful check to keep the party from getting too extreme. I realize that in this one case it is holding back progress on something you personally care about, but I will never fault a Senator for doing his best to accurately represent those who put him in office to, yep, represent them. So it's tricky for me. He stands in the way of things I want, but he really is doing his job (to represent West Virginia) and, IMHO, doing it well. Too well :wink: , maybe.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 27 Sep 2021, 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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27 Sep 2021, 9:22 pm

auntblabby wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Could the democrats bring in outside experts, to help bring in socialized healthcare?

that is what they've done for 3 decades now. no use. the GOP is the big block to progress in this country along with a largely uneducated electorate with a majority of low info voters who let GOP dog whistles distract them from the prize, or convince them to give up their american franchise and just stay home instead of doing what it takes to overcome organized GOP opposition and vote like their lives depended on it.


Are you saying the people who voted Democrat are also "uneducated" and can be influenced by GOP "dog-whistling"?
How does that work?

BTW, Didn't around 10,000,000 more people vote for the Democrats?
Does the GOP have influence over them also?

Your reasoning makes no sense to me. :?


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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27 Sep 2021, 9:28 pm

Jakki wrote:
Nothing like living in a country that is progrezsing backwards.... :roll:


Ameria is on the decline, by the looks of it.
But I am fairly sure it will remain a dominant world influence in our lifetime, cross paws. :mrgreen:

But whatever you do, don't come to Australia unless you are planning to learn Mandarin beforehand. 8O
BTW, What are Amerian immigration laws regarding skunks? :scratch: :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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27 Sep 2021, 9:29 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i suspect if i were canadian i'd be far more proud of my nation than i am right now.


Hurrah for AUKUS!
That is all I need to say. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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27 Sep 2021, 9:32 pm

Flown wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That makes sense but what about other means of protection other than the pill if health consequences are an issue?


The most affordable/accessible option would be condoms (I have to mention that more conservative areas in the US can make these harder to access though), but those can absolutely fail or be used incorrectly. Obviously some men will not know how to use them properly, and the failure rate/misuse rate is ~13-18%. Breakages aren't extremely common, but they do happen. Chances of a breakage can increase if the wrong lubricant is used (e.g. using oil based lubricants with latex condoms).

I'll also add:
I've known several men that have tricked women into thinking they had put a condom on when they hadn't.


But there is the morning after pill for obvious "accidents".
I have no idea if there are medical issues with those.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


DW_a_mom
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27 Sep 2021, 9:34 pm

Pepe wrote:
Are things improving under the Democrats?


In the middle of a pandemic, the best anyone can ask for is that the healthcare system in place does the job and does not collapse. The healthcare system would not have the time or energy to deal with major changes right now.

I work in an industry deemed "essential" even though my work has no direct relationship with healthcare at all. I can tell you that the past year and a half have been HELL. To look at what professionals in the healthcare field feel, triple or quadruple that. This is not the time for government to tinker with structural changes. They don't just happen; they take substantial investments in time and money, no matter how logical they are. The changes in my own corner of the economy that I've had to deal with have mostly been necessary and desirable, but they've still made my life miserable. What both the Trump and Biden administration HAVE done is try to use the federal government to subsidize certain costs necessary to keeping the pandemic under control. Vaccines, for example, have been free to all citizens. By and large, we had a rapid and highly successful roll out, with the big hiccup not coming from the healthcare delivery system but from individual personal choice. For a long time COVID-19 care was free, too, although that seems to be set to expire. I'd be for them extending that, but I'm not hearing much chatter about doing that. As a financial professional, I've read the COVID-19 bills, I think BOTH parties when in control have actually ATTEMPTED to laser focus their efforts into the most useful places for getting through the pandemic. It has been far from perfect, but the efforts I see in the pieces of law I work directly with have actually been sincere. Flawed, because anything rushed will be, but sincere.

Living through a pandemic, overall ... well, there is no way for it to feel great, no matter who is running things.


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Pepe
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27 Sep 2021, 9:40 pm

Flown wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But can women use other means of protection though, that are outside of the mans hands more such as sponges or cervical caps?


Sponges are not exactly effective (only ~75% effective at preventing pregnancy), and can come with a load of issues.
1) They may increase one's chance of STD (causes irritation of the
2) many women are sensitive/allergic to the spermicide. Spermicide can burn us!
3) They put a woman at risk of TSS (toxic shock syndrome)
4) They can cause urinary tract and yeast infections
5) If a woman has already had 1 or more children, they are even less effective
6) They are difficult to both insert and remove (potentially leading to accidental pregnancy and/or TSS)

Additionally, many brands of the sponge have been discontinued in the US. I think there is one brand that can be bought online, but they run at $5 each.

Cervical caps are at around 80% effective when used properly. Problems with them:
1) Your doctor has to fit you for one. You have to access to/money for that kind of healthcare. I'm honestly not even sure if insurance would cover this procedure.
2) Reactions to spermicide as listed above.
3) Position must be SPOT ON for them to be effective. They can easily dislodge during sex.
4) It takes time to carry out #3, which may ruin the entire mood if planning for coitus
5) There is a risk of TSS (especially considering the cap must be left in for 6 hours after sex)
6) They can cause cervicitis or bladder infections

I think it is important to note that anti-abortion groups' and conservative politicians' attacks on Planned Parenthood are cutting the flow of free contraceptives and affordable reproductive healthcare.

My points being:
1) Birth control is not perfect.
2) Accidents can and will happen.
3) Not everyone has access to all forms of birth control.
4) Not everyone is able to use all forms of birth control.
5) Women don't always have a choice in getting pregnant (rape, partners who lie about using contraceptives, oral birth control failure, human error, etc)
5) This is not a black and white topic. It is a complex topic with infinite gray areas.
6) We don't know every story (every shade of gray), and it is not our place to intervene with a woman's reproductive healthcare.


Good grief, Charlie Brown.
After listening to that, if I *were* a woman, I would be celibate.

Now that I think about it, if that were the criteria, I *am* a woman. :mrgreen:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


DW_a_mom
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27 Sep 2021, 9:40 pm

Pepe wrote:
Flown wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That makes sense but what about other means of protection other than the pill if health consequences are an issue?


The most affordable/accessible option would be condoms (I have to mention that more conservative areas in the US can make these harder to access though), but those can absolutely fail or be used incorrectly. Obviously some men will not know how to use them properly, and the failure rate/misuse rate is ~13-18%. Breakages aren't extremely common, but they do happen. Chances of a breakage can increase if the wrong lubricant is used (e.g. using oil based lubricants with latex condoms).

I'll also add:
I've known several men that have tricked women into thinking they had put a condom on when they hadn't.


But there is the morning after pill for obvious "accidents".
I have no idea if there are medical issues with those.


Those are legally abortions, not birth control.


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Pepe
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27 Sep 2021, 9:48 pm

Flown wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think vasectomies are the most effective and least problematic means of contraception, overall.

Assuming of course the couple doesn't ever want children.

Agreed. Vasectomy reversals can be pretty successful though. I've known a handful of couples (even those "past their prime") who were successful with them!


Well, I haven't looked into it, but the testicles are still intact.
I don't see why sperm harvesting isn't a possibility without a vasectomy reversal.
Then AI, or in vitro fertilization, if people are really that silly desperate to want children.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Flown
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28 Sep 2021, 10:04 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Those are legally abortions, not birth control.


Do you mean they are classified as abortion in some states/countries? Because they are NOT abortion in the technical sense. They simply prevent the body from ovulating or the egg from being fertilized. (You may already know that; I'm just trying to figure out what you mean here! Maybe you can point me to some information I was unaware of).

Pepe wrote:
But there is the morning after pill for obvious "accidents".
I have no idea if there are medical issues with those.

Yes, there are risks with taking morning after pills. They are generally safe, but they can nasty side effects for many. The thing is (and as you kind of implied)...many women won't even realize they need to take the morning after pill. They are only effective up to about 3 days after the "accident". This might work for an obviously broken condom, but I can think of a plethora of other situations where this wouldn't work (leaky condom, a partner who lied about using a condom, failed contraception, etc).

Once again, access to and the cost of these pills can be an issue. If a young woman under age 17 needs one, I'm pretty sure a prescription and healthcare visit is required (which can run an additional $45-250). I could see how this could be discouraging to some young women.


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kraftiekortie
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28 Sep 2021, 10:10 am

I feel like taking the "morning-after pill" is much more of a preferable action to having an abortion.

I believe it should be made readily available.



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28 Sep 2021, 10:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like taking the "morning-after pill" is much more of a preferable action to having an abortion.

I believe it should be made readily available.

Of course it is the most preferable option. Most women who have abortions would choose it if they could, I'm sure. I agree that it should be more readily available...along with preventatives, better sexual education classes from an early age, etc.


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28 Sep 2021, 10:32 am

It can take up to three days for a sperm to reach an egg. People assume conception happens almost instantly after sex but like Flown said, sometimes the woman hasn't even ovulated yet. A woman could be walking around "not pregnant" for three days after having sex or being assaulted, so even if there were super sensitive pregnancy tests for the first day they might show that you aren't pregnant .... but you will be two days later.

The morning after pill can prevent fertilisation from taking place in that window of opportunity. I suppose it can also end a fertilisation in its first few hours, which is technically abortion. I know a woman who was sexually assaulted and considered the MA pill but was afraid that it was morally wrong. Others find it more of a safety net.

In either case, not all women have access to MA pills.

Another consideration is that they work by flooding the body with an onslaught of hormones to prevent pregnancy. Many women can't or won't take synthetic hormones for various reasons. These are often the same reasons why some women can't take oral contraception for medical reasons.



DW_a_mom
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28 Sep 2021, 4:47 pm

Flown wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:

Those are legally abortions, not birth control.


Do you mean they are classified as abortion in some states/countries? Because they are NOT abortion in the technical sense. They simply prevent the body from ovulating or the egg from being fertilized. (You may already know that; I'm just trying to figure out what you mean here! Maybe you can point me to some information I was unaware of).
.


I was thinking of situations where the egg has been fertilized, but not necessarily implanted.


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kraftiekortie
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28 Sep 2021, 7:11 pm

Like you said, the fertilized egg has to "implant" itself in the uterine wall in order for the pregnancy to be viable.