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Tequila
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23 Jun 2011, 12:07 pm

visagrunt wrote:
The IRA was a terrorist organization, but not all Roman Catholics are terrorists.


A lot of Loyalists couldn't tell the difference in the 1970s and took to killing random Catholics/Irish nationalists because they thought that all Catholics/nationalists were in league with the IRA. Sometimes they didn't even think that; they just wanted to kill a Catholic, sometimes totally irrespective of their political beliefs.



JakobVirgil
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23 Jun 2011, 1:25 pm

01001011 wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
As Chummy correctly points out, reciting the shahadah is sufficient to make one a muslim.

But what happened to Aspie intellect--not every muslim is a jihadi, so why are we tarring all with the same brush? Irgun was a terrorist organization, but not all Jews are terrorists. The IRA was a terrorist organization, but not all Roman Catholics are terrorists. The LTTE are terrorists, but not all Tamils are terrorists.


I have no problem accepting not all Muslims are terrorists, but I have problem with those saying all terrorists are not Muslims.

you really think that only Muslims can be terrorists?


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23 Jun 2011, 2:01 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
01001011 wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
As Chummy correctly points out, reciting the shahadah is sufficient to make one a muslim.

But what happened to Aspie intellect--not every muslim is a jihadi, so why are we tarring all with the same brush? Irgun was a terrorist organization, but not all Jews are terrorists. The IRA was a terrorist organization, but not all Roman Catholics are terrorists. The LTTE are terrorists, but not all Tamils are terrorists.


I have no problem accepting not all Muslims are terrorists, but I have problem with those saying all terrorists are not Muslims.

you really think that only Muslims can be terrorists?
Well they aren't the only group that can be terrorists, but the vast majority of them have been for the past 20+ years. Is it because the religion is inherently bad? Well it seems like the same s**t as Christianity or Judaism, so I dunno for sure. But what I do know is that the political instability in the Middle East either gives birth to extremists or puts them in a position of power that gives them the opportunity to act. All I know is that the Soviets bailed out of Afghanistan without establishing a new government and reconstructing infrastructure, which left a vacuum behind for the extremists to fill.



Imapanda
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23 Jun 2011, 2:11 pm

Islamic terrorism is basically the Islam equivalent to Westboro Baptist Church. It's organized groups of people who butcher and believe twisted conspiracy-esque versions of otherwise peaceful religions.

I mean, you'd probably feel the same way if some foreign country bombed you village and murdered your friends with no knowledge of why. I read a study once saying that roughly 90% of all Afghans are completely unaware that 9/11 even happened, and they have no idea why NATO troops are there, they simply were trying to get through their poverty-filled lives until we all showed up worsening it up.



ruveyn
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23 Jun 2011, 2:15 pm

Imapanda wrote:
Islamic terrorism is basically the Islam equivalent to Westboro Baptist Church. It's organized groups of people who butcher and believe twisted conspiracy-esque versions of otherwise peaceful religions.

I mean, you'd probably feel the same way if some foreign country bombed you village and murdered your friends with no knowledge of why. I read a study once saying that roughly 90% of all Afghans are completely unaware that 9/11 even happened, and they have no idea why NATO troops are there, they simply were trying to get through their poverty-filled lives until we all showed up worsening it up.


Germany and Japan were thoroughly bombed. Together they lost nearly 2,000,000 civilians killed and millions more made homeless. Yet neither of this nations produced habitual terrorism. Your excuses for Muslims are lame and misplaced. Islam produced the Assassin movement in the 10th century and Muslim assassins terrorize Persia for nearly two centuries. What excuses will you think of for this?

ruveyn



Imapanda
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23 Jun 2011, 2:31 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Germany and Japan were thoroughly bombed. Together they lost nearly 2,000,000 civilians killed and millions more made homeless. Yet neither of this nations produced habitual terrorism. Your excuses for Muslims are lame and misplaced.


Those were the days when information was only available through news paper and radio, blacks were still isolated second-class citizens, and human rights organizations were almost non-existent. In WWII, bombing civilian-filled cities were considered strategic moves to weaken an economy and moral of troops who were fighting, the loss of civilian life was hardly ever skimmed over back then by the offensive force.

ruveyn wrote:
Islam produced the Assassin movement in the 10th century and Muslim assassins terrorize Persia for nearly two centuries. What excuses will you think of for this?


The christian crusades lasted through over 3 centuries. you have to realize during those times people would basically take god over their family; anything else besides their god(s) would be irrelevant in their life. This applied to all religions.



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23 Jun 2011, 2:55 pm

BassMan_720 wrote:
Erm! What makes one a Christian?

Some of the messages on this thread are very misguided and steriotypical regarding muslims and violence. I do not have a religion myself. I have lived in several parts of the world, including the Middle East. I know many devout muslims, hindus and people from many other religions. As individuals, most are extremely peaceful and just want to get on with their lives. I even know a muslim who is a very ethical lawyer. She is the only ethical lawyer I know.

Any religion can be used to manipulate groups of people. Religion has been used as an excuse for violence throughout history, often to mask other, usually political, issues. One does not have to look back in history far to find violence commited in the name of religion including islam and christianity.

In terms of violence being committed against others, How many countries are currently suffering state organised violence from foreign, predominantly christian, countries at the moment? How many countries are currently suffering state organised violence from foreign, predominantly muslim, countries at the moment?


Some Muslims I know are good people as well, but this is despite their religion, not because of it. The lawyer you know would've been an ethical person if she weren't a Muslim.

To your last question I'll posit a counter-question: how many non-Christian minorities suffer from state organized violence in predominantly Christian countries? And how many non-Muslim minorities suffer from state organized violence in predominantly Muslim countries?

The answer to that question would paint a more accurate picture of the relations between Muslims, Christians and others, in my opinion.



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23 Jun 2011, 3:01 pm

Imapanda wrote:
Islamic terrorism is basically the Islam equivalent to Westboro Baptist Church. It's organized groups of people who butcher and believe twisted conspiracy-esque versions of otherwise peaceful religions.
False equivalency. The WBC has protested, but they haven't resorted to bombing or shooting people. The Middle East is much more politically unstable, making extremist Islam endemic to their societies and the WBC some fringe loonies who get 15 minutes of fame here and there.

Imapanda wrote:
I mean, you'd probably feel the same way if some foreign country bombed you village and murdered your friends with no knowledge of why. I read a study once saying that roughly 90% of all Afghans are completely unaware that 9/11 even happened, and they have no idea why NATO troops are there, they simply were trying to get through their poverty-filled lives until we all showed up worsening it up.
Murdered? How do you know the vast majority of US soldiers intentionally target civilians? Hell, even if most of them didn't give a rat's ass about civilians, they would at least avoid it if only to prevent stirring international s**t up.



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23 Jun 2011, 3:16 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Murdered? How do you know the vast majority of US soldiers intentionally target civilians? Hell, even if most of them didn't give a rat's ass about civilians, they would at least avoid it if only to prevent stirring international sh** up.

The great bulk of civilian casualties in Afghanistan are at the hands of Taliban and other militants, not US and NATO forces.


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23 Jun 2011, 4:30 pm

01001011 wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
As Chummy correctly points out, reciting the shahadah is sufficient to make one a muslim.

But what happened to Aspie intellect--not every muslim is a jihadi, so why are we tarring all with the same brush? Irgun was a terrorist organization, but not all Jews are terrorists. The IRA was a terrorist organization, but not all Roman Catholics are terrorists. The LTTE are terrorists, but not all Tamils are terrorists.


I have no problem accepting not all Muslims are terrorists, but I have problem with those saying all terrorists are not Muslims.


Right, because Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Ted Kaczynski, and numerous pro-life activist organizations who have publically stated their mission as the use of scare tactics and force to eradicate abortion from the United States aren't/weren't terrorists.


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23 Jun 2011, 4:43 pm

Chevand wrote:
01001011 wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
As Chummy correctly points out, reciting the shahadah is sufficient to make one a muslim.

But what happened to Aspie intellect--not every muslim is a jihadi, so why are we tarring all with the same brush? Irgun was a terrorist organization, but not all Jews are terrorists. The IRA was a terrorist organization, but not all Roman Catholics are terrorists. The LTTE are terrorists, but not all Tamils are terrorists.


I have no problem accepting not all Muslims are terrorists, but I have problem with those saying all terrorists are not Muslims.


Right, because Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Ted Kaczynski, and numerous pro-life activist organizations who have publically stated their mission as the use of scare tactics and force to eradicate abortion from the United States aren't/weren't terrorists.


what about ETA were they muslim?


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RedHanrahan
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23 Jun 2011, 5:13 pm

visagrunt wrote:
As Chummy correctly points out, reciting the shahadah is sufficient to make one a muslim.

But what happened to Aspie intellect--not every muslim is a jihadi, so why are we tarring all with the same brush? Irgun was a terrorist organization, but not all Jews are terrorists. The IRA was a terrorist organization, but not all Roman Catholics are terrorists. The LTTE are terrorists, but not all Tamils are terrorists.


This is the wrong forum for such well reasoned points, only extremes of dualism are allowed here... :wink:

peace j


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AngelRho
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23 Jun 2011, 5:23 pm

Icyclan wrote:
The belief that a celestial dictator is watching you 24/7, and that he sent an epileptic mass murderer to act as his spokesman on earth; when he died, said dictator sent his magic winged horse to fetch said mass murderer and carry him to paradise where he can have 72 grapes and all the young boys he desires.

This sounds more like the Roman Catholic church. This thread is about what makes one Muslim!

(Just kidding, btw!! ! I just couldn't help myself! lol Please don't throw anything at me! [runs and hides])



ruveyn
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23 Jun 2011, 5:26 pm

Chevand wrote:

Right, because Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, Ted Kaczynski, and numerous pro-life activist organizations who have publically stated their mission as the use of scare tactics and force to eradicate abortion from the United States aren't/weren't terrorists.


You read about an abortion clinic bombing every five years or so. You read about Islamic suicide bombers daily. There is the difference.

ruveyn



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04 Jul 2011, 7:18 pm

Disgusting ignorance coming from the mouth of bigots who should know from their past years of being stereotyped that you shouldn't judge a group by a couple of individuals. Man, whatever happened to aspies saying they hate it when people call them retards even though almost every Aspie i have ever met was a loner who would throw a tantrum in public places, fidget, stim and have weird quirks yet I dont stereotype you all as being mentally retarded, heck I barely stereotype any. You people who claim my religion is a barbaric uncivilized religion just because you hear that on the news are the same people who say "stop judging us just because people portray us as being mentally retarded" while your ignorant enough to post hateful comments about my religion. You people who are posting these hateful comments should be more intellectual than that, if that's what you tell NT's who judge you even though they barely even got to know you. Why not instead of being like the so called "overly socialized NT who isn't intelligent" you try being the opposite - the so called "intelligent aspie who is open minded and reflects and thinks". To put it in simpler words, why not you quote to me a verse from my Quran that proves that Islam is the barbaric evil religion that you rant on about. After all, wouldn't the so called "highly intelligent aspie" be able to use constructive criticism in a religious debate? thats what im wondering. you people who bash my religion are the exact opposite of the aspies ive met who were open minded and intelligent. the reason im bringer aspergers into this discussion is because I believed that people who can relate to the pain of being stereotyped and judged just because of propaganda should move past ignorance, not follow it. And I hope you all know that Aspergers is equally misrepresented as Islam so I would be careful if I were you when opening my mouth and saying hateful things about a religion when similar things can be said about Aspergers by those who were brainwashed with ignorant propaganda. Getting back to the point either quote the verse of my holy book where Islam orders even the tiniest uncivilized act or don't post another hateful thing about Islam, because going to court without evidence will only get you thrown out in seconds (btw sorry for my rudeness its just that being stereotyped for a religion that's extremely misrepresented is frustrating)



Last edited by salad on 04 Jul 2011, 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

salad
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04 Jul 2011, 7:21 pm

ryan93 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
01001011 wrote:
What makes one a Muslim?


A very bad attitude.

ruveyn


A few crossed mental wires, the threat of death for apostate children, and a firm conviction you are a decent calm person while you "gently beat" your tent-wife. And possibly four pounds of Semtex.


prove it with a verse from my Quran like an intellectual person would do in a debate regarding religion, by stating facts from holy scriptures