Hate crime statistics deflate "Islamophobia" myth

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thomas81
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13 Jan 2013, 6:07 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
We invade their countries


Don't worry - they're busily invading ours.


What, in a nasty send over amphibious vessels full of troops and tanks sort of way or in a BNP paranoid "kick out the immigrants" sort of way?


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puddingmouse
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13 Jan 2013, 6:55 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Josef Goebells ministry of propaganda was extremely successful at doing exactly the same against Jews. It is a powerful weapon. Especially when the ones weilding that weapon are doing so under the false flag of tolerance, secularism and open mindedness.


If there is a media bias against Muslims (which there may well be), I doubt it's anything as orchestrated as the propaganda campaigns of Goebbels.



Tequila
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13 Jan 2013, 7:03 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
If there is a media bias against Muslims (which there may well be), I doubt it's anything as orchestrated as the propaganda campaigns of Goebbels.


I think there's a media/government bias that tries to excuse, ignore or try to hush up crimes committed by Muslims for the sake of "community cohesion", but some of the tabloids don't help matters with their ill-informed, unfocused coverage on Islam.



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13 Jan 2013, 7:16 pm

Most muslims arent going to commit hate crimes against non muslims its the radicals and the loud ones that do. I live in a very diverse area and we have a lot of muslims here but they are usually pretty kind and humble and a lot will agree with disagreeing with radical islam.


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thomas81
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13 Jan 2013, 7:20 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Josef Goebells ministry of propaganda was extremely successful at doing exactly the same against Jews. It is a powerful weapon. Especially when the ones weilding that weapon are doing so under the false flag of tolerance, secularism and open mindedness.


If there is a media bias against Muslims (which there may well be), I doubt it's anything as orchestrated as the propaganda campaigns of Goebbels.


Its more covert and subtle. Which in a way makes it more effective.


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AspieOtaku
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13 Jan 2013, 7:35 pm

Radical Muslims on the otherhand do support this kind of garbage though![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emMrn9ja5iU[/youtube]Most muslims immigrate to the west not to take over but to escape the tyranny and abuse that goes on back in their home country.


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salad
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13 Jan 2013, 9:20 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
We invade their countries


Don't worry - they're busily invading ours.


What, in a nasty send over amphibious vessels full of troops and tanks sort of way or in a BNP paranoid "kick out the immigrants" sort of way?


Where are the smart rational people in this world like you when we need them, finally a rational mind that thinks outside the propaganda machines brainwashing myths.



Tequila
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13 Jan 2013, 9:37 pm

salad wrote:
Where are the smart rational people in this world like you when we need them, finally a rational mind that thinks outside the propaganda machines brainwashing myths.


How about neither of those two things he mentioned? I would never want to kick Muslims (full UK citizens) out of the country but equally I want mass immigration to be halted.



salad
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13 Jan 2013, 10:18 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Radical Muslims on the otherhand do support this kind of garbage though![youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emMrn9ja5iU[/youtube]Most muslims immigrate to the west not to take over but to escape the tyranny and abuse that goes on back in their home country.


Most of the things the TV says the Taliban have committed are certainly not in the Islamic Sunnah. Example: Women can't have jobs, women have no right to education, etc. are cultural rules. In Islam God guarantees women both rights. I evaluate Islam as a Muslim by the Sunnah (traditions and narrations) of the Prophet (PBUH) rather than current political affairs occurring in this day of age. The lack of credibility and unreliability that the media presents is too hard to judge Islam from, so the only way I know to debate is by the Quran and Sunnah, not politics and what's going on today or in history..



salad
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13 Jan 2013, 10:20 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
anongamer wrote:
That's the whole point, salad. (Using iPad atm so quoting is a pain to delete)

I want to stop obsessively researching them, trying to find faults in their religion etc. it's like an addiction, and while they are around me that's what I will do.

I know it's not them, it's me. It's irrational. But all I can do (in my mind) is move somewhere they are not.


The trick is to separate them from their religion (which I admit is hard when some of them try to make it seem like they are one and the same). I strongly dislike Islam. As for Muslims, I go off how they treat other people - they're all different in that regard, like all people are. A lot of them are good people in spite of their faith. I even go as far as assuming most of them are good people.


Why can't you assume that the good Muslims are like that BECAUSE of their faith, and the bad ones are like that because they don't PROPERLY follow their faith?? Think of it like that.



anongamer
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14 Jan 2013, 2:36 pm

I'm starting to read its not just me around here (Sydney). NTs feel the same way here too.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/terrorism-fea ... 2cpoy.html

Quote:
'We know there are some people who tend to think about it a lot, and that's people with a higher background level of anxiety, and people in certain demographic groups,'' said Mr Stevens, a clinical psychologist and lecturer at the University of Western Sydney.


Quote:
Nearly 14 per cent of people sometimes avoid public places and events because of fear of terrorist attacks, a study has found.
About one in 20 has changed their use of public transport in recent times and one in five has deferred or changed plans for overseas travel.


If NTs can't deal with it, what chance is there for an aspie with fewer mechanisms for coping with anxiety?

The article states it is a health issue, as I thought all along. It's not healthy worrying about it every day and thinking every south asian/middle eastern person you see on the street is a potential terrorist. Hence my wish to move somewhere else (which has none or very few of them).

I mean all the time, and a lot of people here do it. Sit within observable distance of the south asian/middle eastern person on a bus/train and make sure they don't fiddle with their bag or any objects. And get the hell out of there if they do or report them to the driver/police.

Quote:
The study found 45 per cent of people had either moderately or extremely increased vigilance for suspicious behaviours, while nearly 40 per cent had learnt their building's evacuation plan and 20 per cent had an emergency family contact plan.


I'd really rather look out the window/read or do something else that is anxiety free. But while they are there I can't. I am that gripped by fear.

Oh the government ads don't help. They portray just that, a middle eastern/south Asian person on public transport fiddling with something with the caption "Report all Suspicious Activity" only fuelling my fear. And everyone ever charged with homegrown terrorism offences is of middle eastern/south Asian decent.



puddingmouse
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14 Jan 2013, 5:21 pm

I used to catch buses and trains full of people of Middle Eastern or South Asian descent every day. I have not be blown up yet.



thomas81
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14 Jan 2013, 5:28 pm

Tequila wrote:
How about neither of those two things he mentioned? I would never want to kick Muslims (full UK citizens) out of the country but equally I want mass immigration to be halted.


Theres 2 different forms of immigration. Voluntary, and involuntary. Most, possibly 99.9 percent of immigrants, muslim or otherwise, do not come here with some sort of malignant desire to dilute and affront indigenous culture. Nobody wants to uproot their families to go to a strange land, sometimes many thousands of miles away for such a petty reason. They come here by in large to an abject absence of options in their own nations. Immigration has push as well as pull factors. If the UK wants to stem involuntary immigration it needs to play a proactive part in combatting the push factors. Stopping their involvement in various conflict zones would be a good start. Another would be cleaning up their post colonial mess.


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Tequila
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14 Jan 2013, 5:46 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Stopping their involvement in various conflict zones would be a good start.


No argument from me there. I believe that the UK should have a strong military, but that in general we should keep out of foreign wars. We should stick to defending the UK and its territories.

They want to come to the UK because their own countries are tinpot fundamentalist dangerous crapholes like Pakistan. One of the major mistakes that was made in the 1960s and 1970s and beyond was inflicting mass immigration on the public without asking them whether it was OK. Close the doors to new immigrants and tell them that, from now on, selective immigration only. We have no need for more poor Muslim immigrants from tribal hellholes (or Romanian/Bulgarian immigrants either, to be honest).

thomas81 wrote:
Another would be cleaning up their post colonial mess.


These countries are independent states. They can't keep blaming Britain when they've had independence for over 60 years, most of them.

I believe that trade, not aid, is the way forward for these countries. Let them sell their stuff on the open market here in the UK and in other countries.



Last edited by Tequila on 14 Jan 2013, 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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14 Jan 2013, 5:47 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
I used to catch buses and trains full of people of Middle Eastern or South Asian descent every day. I have not be blown up yet.


Yup. Terrorism itself is an issue, but isn't the most serious one.

I see South Asian people regularly. I know one or two of them personally. The main woman I know who is of Pakistani Muslim descent is a fruitcake, but not because of Islam - and she's had a pretty nasty upbringing which has left her with twisted views of men, to be fair to her. (She gave me cause to have a massive grin on my face all this afternoon, actually.)



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14 Jan 2013, 6:14 pm

Tequila wrote:
I don't mind Muslims. I don't mind Hindus or Sikhs either. I don't mind anyone, as long as they're not absolute arsecakes (and Nick Griffin is in the 'arsecake' category). And there are a lot of those amongst the white population too.


You probably don't mind them on an individual level but you would mind them if you lived in one of their neighborhoods. As you said, living as a racial minority in your own country is alienating. The alienation will only grow worse in the coming years, even if all of the UK's Moslems abandon fundamentalism.