Why should the government "help" people with Aspergers?

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Canadian1911
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09 May 2015, 4:53 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
Canadian1911 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Canadian1911 wrote:
Gotta say, I'm lucky to be Canadian and just get $1098 form the provinical government at the moment, just use a debit card from a regular bank. rent is $525 phone is $80 after that like $500 left. Im good.


here in us i get $650 then $150 for food only.
so yeah you're lucky.


Wow, but I thought the minimum SSDI was like $1100?

SSDI is for people who have become disabled after working for a number of years. It is based on past earnings with no minimum.

Most people here would be on SSI. This is for disabled people who have never worked. Last time I checked, the federal max was a bit less than $800.00/month.

...a tip for those concerned about food.

Leg-quarters are REALLY cheap. You can buy a 10lb bag for about $6.00. That's usually 8 leg-quarters. Buy some freezer bags and package them up, 2 to a bag and freeze them raw.

When you're ready to eat, plop them in a pot, frozen and let them cook until tender. Then remove them and pull the meat off the bones.

Take the chicken stock you just made and use it to cook your rice. After that, combine the (now boneless) chicken with the rice and some frozen veggies (normandy blend is cheap) for a wholesome, and thrifty meal...


I'll try your chicken recipe. And wow, that is sucky. Don't they know that someones disability is maybe the reason why they haven't worked yet? Luckily in Ontario the Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP) realizes that both people who have worked in the past and have never worked depending on when they became disabled, are still equal citizens.



sly279
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10 May 2015, 1:23 pm

well max is 750 for both ssdi/ssi. I'm on both so when i got on ssdi, my ssi went down the amount i got from ssdi so two checks which is confusing but then it screwed up my insurance so now I have two insurance plans :roll:

well here in the us many think people on ssi are just theifs who should die. while they somewhat accept ssdi people, but still think they are stealing their money.



Canadian1911
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10 May 2015, 4:21 pm

There's some people who think that in Canada, but most doubt. In fact is someone gets down on someone for legitimately needing assistance, people are gonna come and call them an as*hole. lol



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10 May 2015, 4:55 pm

sly279 wrote:
well max is 750 for both ssdi/ssi. I'm on both so when i got on ssdi, my ssi went down the amount i got from ssdi so two checks which is confusing but then it screwed up my insurance so now I have two insurance plans :roll:

well here in the us many think people on ssi are just theifs who should die. while they somewhat accept ssdi people, but still think they are stealing their money.


I don't mean to pick a fight here, but SSDI is basically just early Social Security and it is completely base on your wages during your working life...

http://money.cnn.com/retirement/guide/S ... ndex16.htm
Quote:
Your eligibility for these benefits works on the same credit system as for retirement payouts, but there are slightly different rules about who is eligible. Eligibility for disability benefits depends on how old you are when you become disabled, as well as the nature of your disability. You can't qualify for disability benefits if you are able to work and earn more than $1,000 a month (in 2010). Your disability also must be considered severe enough to affect your everyday work-related activities. Check out the online version of the process the Social Security Administration (SSA) uses to decide whether or not you qualify as disabled.


SSDI stands for Social Security Disability Insurance. It is actual government run insurance that you pay for when you work. There is one loophole here. If you are a child who becomes disabled before the age of 22, you can get SSDI benefits based on your parent's wages.

Social welfare policy is a special interest of mine. :oops:


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sly279
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11 May 2015, 2:35 am

what are you disagreeing on though ? ^o.o>



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11 May 2015, 8:40 am

sly279 wrote:
what are you disagreeing on though ? ^o.o>

That $750/month is the maximum benefit one can get.

The maximum benefit for SSDI is something close to $2500/month. The average benefit is about $1000/month.

Sorry for being unclear.


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Canadian1911
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11 May 2015, 11:53 am

Ok, so I guess disorders from birth can only get SSI, unless you claim SSDI off your parents?



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11 May 2015, 2:16 pm

Canadian1911 wrote:
Ok, so I guess disorders from birth can only get SSI, unless you claim SSDI off your parents?


Not necessarily. You can get SSDI if you have multiple disabilities none of which are totally disabling but which are totally disabling in combination. So you might have an autism spectrum disorder but still work, and you paid for some years into social security. Then you develop some second illness, injury, or condition. The second condition in itself isn't considered totally disabling, but it does prevent you from doing work similar to what you were doing, and assume that the ASD prevents you from being gainfully employed doing other sorts of work. So then you would qualify for SSDI, on the merit of your own work credits, due in part to a disorder from birth.


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11 May 2015, 2:48 pm

I see some "eating poor" recipes in this thread and I can contribute to that.

Rice and beans alone are enough to keep you alive a long time. You get more for your money if you can buy dry beans rather than the canned ones. They do take more time to prepare though. Side benefit: Eating a lot of rice and beans gives you plenty of opportunity to gradually increase your tolerance for increasingly spicy hot sauces over time, if you're so inclined.

Fried rice is pretty easy to make. I just cook some rice, scramble some eggs, dice up and sautee whatever vegetables or meat I have (hot dog fried rice doesn't sound very appetizing but it's actually not that bad - and chorizo fried rice is honestly really good). Then toss it all together and pan-fry it in a really hot pan with just a little bit of peanut oil.

Textured Vegetable Protein or TVP is much cheaper than meat and can be used to substitute for ground beef in most recipes (not sure about burgers though). You can reconstitute it with a beef stock or boullion if you want it to have a beefy flavor but it basically takes on the taste of whatever it's combined with and I don't usually bother with that. I use it for tacos, Bolognese sauce, chili, sloppy joes, stuff like that.


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Canadian1911
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11 May 2015, 3:30 pm

I pay my rent and my phone bill and still have $496 left so I take of flike $300 for food (and I can eat a hardy 3 meals a day, bacon and eggs, grilled cheese, double cheeseburger or something else meaty and even desert (which I don't count as a meal). I feel sorry for you american SSI people. They treat you like s**t, don't they?



emax10000
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11 May 2015, 3:45 pm

I think the issue with welfare is that there are innate difficulties in determining who genuinely needs the assistance and who is truly unable to provide for themselves and who just chooses not to.

And for those anywhere on the spectrum, it becomes monstrously difficult, complex and nuanced. When you get down to it, when someone is on the spectrum, only he/she knows for sure if she is in genuine need of welfare or is perfectly capable of functioning without it. I am not sure what the solution is in terms of successfully separating out these two sets of those on the spectrum.



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11 May 2015, 4:28 pm

emax10000 wrote:
I think the issue with welfare is that there are innate difficulties in determining who genuinely needs the assistance and who is truly unable to provide for themselves and who just chooses not to.

And for those anywhere on the spectrum, it becomes monstrously difficult, complex and nuanced. When you get down to it, when someone is on the spectrum, only he/she knows for sure if she is in genuine need of welfare or is perfectly capable of functioning without it. I am not sure what the solution is in terms of successfully separating out these two sets of those on the spectrum.


What innate difficulties, aside from the mudane/slow as hell process it takes to get on SSI or most other government assistance as well? This image of some lazy person who's just like 'nope I choose not to do anything and just collect crappy government benefits' hardly represents even half anyone on government assistance. Perhaps SSDI would be worth committing fraud for...but SSI or EBT would be a lousy thing to risk getting caught doing that for.

Also they can talk to the person with AS and look at their medical records...as well as taking into consideration any co-morbids. As well as consider any job history and what not, they are more focused on seperatating fakes from people authentically struggling the goal has moved away from actually helping the disabled which is unfortunate and is probably one thing that contributes to all the stigma.


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11 May 2015, 7:36 pm

emax10000 wrote:
I think the issue with welfare is that there are innate difficulties in determining who genuinely needs the assistance and who is truly unable to provide for themselves and who just chooses not to.

And for those anywhere on the spectrum, it becomes monstrously difficult, complex and nuanced. When you get down to it, when someone is on the spectrum, only he/she knows for sure if she is in genuine need of welfare or is perfectly capable of functioning without it. I am not sure what the solution is in terms of successfully separating out these two sets of those on the spectrum.


I think you have a valid point. It is difficult to determine in each and every individual case whether there's a legitimate need for support or just an opportunist looking for a free ride - malingerers, to use the technical term. And some conditions this is more difficult than others - autism spectrum disorder is a great example. PTSD is another one, since one of the hallmark symptoms is feeling like there's really nothing wrong with you so you feel guilty for asking for any help at all.

And at the same time, putting people who are legitimately disabled through a very long and complex process in order to get support is simply unacceptable.

That's why I think it makes more sense to provide everyone with a basic income (or implement a negative income tax, if you prefer Milton Friedman's flavor of the same basic policy) and eliminate the means-testing and disability-determination gate-keeping bureaucracies.


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denpajin
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12 May 2015, 4:07 am

The government has no obligation to help anyone. In the first place, it's not my fault that people have autism, why should I pay for others disabilities but my own?

What is stealing? Stealing is according to the oxford dictionary "Take (another person’s property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it"
What pays for governments? Taxes.
Are taxes voluntary? No.
So what is taxes then? Taxes are theft.



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12 May 2015, 4:48 am

denpajin wrote:
The government has no obligation to help anyone. In the first place, it's not my fault that people have autism, why should I pay for others disabilities but my own?

What is stealing? Stealing is according to the oxford dictionary "Take (another person’s property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it"
What pays for governments? Taxes.
Are taxes voluntary? No.
So what is taxes then? Taxes are theft.


Taxes are the price of admission for living in a peaceful society with amenities like roads, schools, police/fire protection.

If you don't want to pay taxes, you should do the ethical thing and move to a failed state where you can live your "Randian Dream."

However, if you like it here, and you want to stay, you need to pay your taxes. :roll:


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12 May 2015, 4:57 am

GoonSquad wrote:
sly279 wrote:
what are you disagreeing on though ? ^o.o>

That $750/month is the maximum benefit one can get.

The maximum benefit for SSDI is something close to $2500/month. The average benefit is about $1000/month.

Sorry for being unclear.


maybe if you're just on ssdi. but I'm on both. and the gov rep said max is 750. so as one goes up other goes down.


I can only imagine one would have had to make over 3k a month to and then disabled to get that 2500.