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eyelessshiver
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14 Sep 2020, 3:31 pm

1. He bribed people to keep quiet about his affairs, which would have created bad publicity and lost him the 2016 election.
2. He used Russian intelligence hacks to get information about American vote demographics etc., which tipped the election in his favor.

1 is irrefutable. 2 is denied and harder to corroborate, but seems very likely, if you do a little research. Also considering his actions that are confirmed in 1, 2 is easier to see as something he would do.



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14 Sep 2020, 3:34 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
I don't like to judge people but I don't know anyone who likes Trump because they think he is holy. I wouldn't vote for him to be part of the clergy. People like Trump because he stands up for what is right and defends religions freedom. He doesn't need to be a Christian or have good morals to do that. For example, he's not a Catholic but he saved the Little Sisters of the Poor from religious persecution. Obama tried to force them to provide contraception despite it being a mortal sin according to Christian teaching. Biden said he's undo Trump's action showing those Democrats consider their ideology so superior to Christian teaching that they'd punish Christians for not submitting to it. That's evil. It's even worse for Biden since he identifies as Catholic and is well aware of Catholic/Christian teaching. I like Trump because he's not a racist and respects all Americans. Democrat politicians are always trying to divide Americans based on race, gender, and class and turn Americans against each other. Trump's personal life is irrelevant to me. He is a good leader who supports what's best for America.
While you may be entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.


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14 Sep 2020, 4:25 pm

Fnord wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
I don't like to judge people but I don't know anyone who likes Trump because they think he is holy. I wouldn't vote for him to be part of the clergy. People like Trump because he stands up for what is right and defends religions freedom. He doesn't need to be a Christian or have good morals to do that. For example, he's not a Catholic but he saved the Little Sisters of the Poor from religious persecution. Obama tried to force them to provide contraception despite it being a mortal sin according to Christian teaching. Biden said he's undo Trump's action showing those Democrats consider their ideology so superior to Christian teaching that they'd punish Christians for not submitting to it. That's evil. It's even worse for Biden since he identifies as Catholic and is well aware of Catholic/Christian teaching. I like Trump because he's not a racist and respects all Americans. Democrat politicians are always trying to divide Americans based on race, gender, and class and turn Americans against each other. Trump's personal life is irrelevant to me. He is a good leader who supports what's best for America.
While you may be entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.


He's just doing what fanatical Trump supporters do best. Spreading lies and misinformation and giving reasonable people even more of a reason to loathe Trump and his base.

I can't wait for the next civil war to happen after election day. I hope Trump's side loses big time and that they are made a laughing stock of the US for years to come.


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14 Sep 2020, 4:35 pm

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
I don't like to judge people but I don't know anyone who likes Trump because they think he is holy. I wouldn't vote for him to be part of the clergy. People like Trump because he stands up for what is right and defends religions freedom. He doesn't need to be a Christian or have good morals to do that. For example, he's not a Catholic but he saved the Little Sisters of the Poor from religious persecution. Obama tried to force them to provide contraception despite it being a mortal sin according to Christian teaching. Biden said he's undo Trump's action showing those Democrats consider their ideology so superior to Christian teaching that they'd punish Christians for not submitting to it. That's evil. It's even worse for Biden since he identifies as Catholic and is well aware of Catholic/Christian teaching. I like Trump because he's not a racist and respects all Americans. Democrat politicians are always trying to divide Americans based on race, gender, and class and turn Americans against each other. Trump's personal life is irrelevant to me. He is a good leader who supports what's best for America.
While you may be entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.
He's just doing what fanatical Trump supporters do best. Spreading lies and misinformation and giving reasonable people even more of a reason to loathe Trump and his base.
Do we really need any more reasons this close to Election Day?
DeathEmperor413 wrote:
I can't wait for the next civil war to happen after election day.  I hope Trump's side loses big time and that they are made a laughing stock of the US for years to come.
I don't know, man ... they got a lot of firearms and they don't seem inclined to listen to reason.


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14 Sep 2020, 4:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
DeathEmperor413 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
emotrtkey wrote:
I don't like to judge people but I don't know anyone who likes Trump because they think he is holy. I wouldn't vote for him to be part of the clergy. People like Trump because he stands up for what is right and defends religions freedom. He doesn't need to be a Christian or have good morals to do that. For example, he's not a Catholic but he saved the Little Sisters of the Poor from religious persecution. Obama tried to force them to provide contraception despite it being a mortal sin according to Christian teaching. Biden said he's undo Trump's action showing those Democrats consider their ideology so superior to Christian teaching that they'd punish Christians for not submitting to it. That's evil. It's even worse for Biden since he identifies as Catholic and is well aware of Catholic/Christian teaching. I like Trump because he's not a racist and respects all Americans. Democrat politicians are always trying to divide Americans based on race, gender, and class and turn Americans against each other. Trump's personal life is irrelevant to me. He could shoot someone on 5th avenue and I'd still support him since he is a good leader who supports what's best for America.
While you may be entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.
He's just doing what fanatical Trump supporters do best. Spreading lies and misinformation and giving reasonable people even more of a reason to loathe Trump and his base.
Do we really need any more reasons this close to Election Day?
DeathEmperor413 wrote:
I can't wait for the next civil war to happen after election day.  I hope Trump's side loses big time and that they are made a laughing stock of the US for years to come.
I don't know, man ... they got a lot of firearms and they don't seem inclined to listen to reason.



I feel like it's going to happen no matter what we do. I wish it would just hurry up and happen! The anticipation for this insane war is driving me insane. :(


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eyelessshiver
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14 Sep 2020, 4:44 pm

There's not going to be a civil war. There might be some disputes that happen, but...it's not like the whole country is going to war or something. That's a crazy notion.



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14 Sep 2020, 4:46 pm

eyelessshiver wrote:
There's not going to be a civil war. There might be some disputes that happen, but...it's not like the whole country is going to war or something. That's a crazy notion.
I'm concerned that some form of violence will take place either at the polling places during the voting process, or just about everywhere else after the election.


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14 Sep 2020, 4:59 pm

eyelessshiver wrote:
There's not going to be a civil war. There might be some disputes that happen, but...it's not like the whole country is going to war or something. That's a crazy notion.


Is it? The Pax Americana will end at some point. COVID has already taught us that our 'perfect western society' is vulnerable to same problems that afflict the rest of the world.



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14 Sep 2020, 5:01 pm

eyelessshiver wrote:
There's not going to be a civil war. There might be some disputes that happen, but...it's not like the whole country is going to war or something. That's a crazy notion.


I don't think it's that crazy. What would honestly keep us from having a civil war? For all we know the military could end up becoming so split over Trump that half would side with him and the other half would be against him after the election.

A modern civil war in a country like the US will not be like what went on in the 1860's, it'll be worse. Like Colombia in the 1940's and 1950's.


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14 Sep 2020, 5:52 pm

This thread has gotten a little too Alex Jones.


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eyelessshiver
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14 Sep 2020, 5:59 pm

I think you guys have overactive imaginations.

The U.S. military is not going to be easily divided against itself, if at all. There's a chain of command and they follow it. It's very centralized. Maybe worst case scenario, the U.S. government has to mobilize against civil unrest whether individual state government wants it or not (an escalation of what's going on now), and it won't just be Trump who wants it, I think the vast majority of people would want that, because the number of people who're violent and protesting is pretty small. If violence got really that bad, it would be necessary to keep people safe and keep the peace. And the U.S. government would win, I guarantee that.

Any armed militias etc cannot stand up to the most powerful military in the world. It's naive for anyone to truly feel they can "fight the police" or fight the power or whatever. Even if 40% of American (households) have guns...guns are just guns. Look at what the army has. I mean c'mon, let's get real here.

How do you think a divide of the U.S. military would actually go down? How would this really play out? There's no way I can see this. People in the military don't just fight for no reason. They're here to protect the country, and it's generally not against itself. You think there are two generals or something here with their armies who're going to mobilize armed forces and fight each other? Not going to happen. That's not how this stuff works, I'm telling you. You're getting like waaaay ahead of yourself and blowing things way out of proportion.

You'll see I'm right.



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14 Sep 2020, 6:03 pm

Yup, we'll see.


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14 Sep 2020, 6:03 pm

Agreed, the military is not only more on top of geopolitics than Trump ever could hope to be, they're ahead of him on climate change, every single aspect of technology & social policy as well.


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14 Sep 2020, 6:05 pm

For the record, the Romans at one point thought that they had the most powerful army in the world and that nothing could ever possibly conquer them.

Hmm... sound familiar? The United States military is not going to stay the most powerful force in the world forever. It's downright ignorant for anybody to actually believe that.


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14 Sep 2020, 6:16 pm

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DeathEmperor413 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
When it comes to devout Trumpsters, I've seen similar behavior in adolescent girls who 'worshiped' their post-teen-aged boyfriends -- they sincerely believed their boyfriends could do no wrong, and that anyone who pointed out the boyfriends' obvious flaws (i.e., drop-out, gang member, juvenile detention, police record, et cetera) was simply lying out of jealousy and/or bigotry.  Those girls also made every kind of improbable excuse as to why the boyfriends' actions were simply misunderstood, and why everybody should accept her boyfriend just the way he is.

Then one day, those girls wake up to the sound of their fatherless baby crying, and realize that they have been used, abused, and abandoned by the very same narcissistic boyfriend whom they believed really loved them, when narcissists really don't love anyone except themselves.

Now name the boyfriend "Trump", think of all of his fans as those adolescent girls, and you will understand how I perceive anyone who believes Trump can do no wrong, who believes anyone who points out Trump's flaws is lying, who make up all kinds of improbably excuses that favor Trump, and who will likely receive the worst screwing-over as Trump takes from them everything he wants.
I won't be feeling sorry for any of these Trump fans, they brought this on themselves.
At least we'll have the chance to say, "I told you so" to their faces.
While saying that will make us feel good we are getting screwed also. Living in a country in anarchy is an especially bad thing for change averse, routine loving autistic people.
How would living in an anarchic country be significantly different from the way it is now?

Instead of one big, fat bully-boss lying to us and demanding our absolute loyalty, we'll have thousands of lesser bully-bosses doing the exact same thing.


Off topic rant:
That describes if not our current situation one we are devolving into. MAGA’s wanted norms to be broken and they got it. I am talking about MAGA’s not every Trump voter. They don’t like lefties saying America is corrupt to the core, they were saying the same thing. They wanted free speech and now they don’t like it when it is used to cancel them for something they said ten years ago or is now considered racist or their company requires them to acknowledge non binary gender identities. I can’t discount that Trump might win and they will have their ultimate own the libs orgasm but the long term trends are against them, the woke generation is rapidly taking over the country and ultimately resistance will be futile because they are masters at weaponizing language and know how to use technology better. And MAGA’s and Trump keep on validating woke talking points.

The woke(not all progressives) will bear ultimate responsibility for disaster their destruction of core American values will cause and the MAGA’s will think “I told you so” to their little hearts content. Think it is all they will be able to do. What they are not likely to do is think about is their unwittingly laying the groundwork. I and all other future innocent victims of the woke takeover(and possibly a backlash rightist authoritarian takeover prior) will know better.



I think that's a good point. That sums up why I'm not in favor of either side right now.

And let's be honest, neither side really cares about free speech. They only care about shutting the other side up even through violence.

Yup


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eyelessshiver
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14 Sep 2020, 6:18 pm

DeathEmperor413 wrote:
For the record, the Romans at one point thought that they had the most powerful army in the world and that nothing could ever possibly conquer them.

Hmm... sound familiar? The United States military is not going to stay the most powerful force in the world forever. It's downright ignorant for anybody to actually believe that.


LOL. Ok. I didn't say America is going to take over the world and always stay the most powerful nation, I said that the U.S. military in its current state is plenty powerful to stand up against its own insurgents.

The issue here is that, although the country is divided, it's military forces are not. There cannot and will not be a civil war unless there is military division.