Facebook prioritizing different types of hate speech

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Antrax
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08 Dec 2020, 4:13 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
slam_thunderhide wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:

All these companies going "woke" is a reflection of the hip wealthy cohort thinking that way.


That is just delusional. The elites decide what they want, and then they manufacture consent - not the other way round. If some companies are responding to the "woke" opinions of young people, it's only because those young people have had those "woke" opinions put into their heads by elites in the media and academia, not because those young people have figured anything out for themselves.

The naivety on this sub-forum is remarkable. I'm sure that only a few years ago it wasn't this bad.


Calls people delusional, cites a conspiracy theory.

You can't make this stuff up, folks...


Lololol. You know, I sometimes wonder why people on this sub-forum are so abnormally fond of the term "conspirsacy theory". I guess to some people with A.S. the idea of other people actually working together to achieve a goal is too incredible to contemplate.

When I compare some of the old threads on this sub-forum with the rubbish that gets posted now, I really do find it remarkable how low this sub-forum has sunk.


There's a big difference between "elites try to steer the masses in a direction," and "everything the masses do is by the elites' design."

At least in politics there's a feedback loops. Voters take their cues from political elites, but political elites also take their cues from voters. This is probably harder to prove in a general cultural, economic, educational sense but logically the same principle should hold.


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08 Dec 2020, 5:43 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Hasn't it's a conspiracy been the default explanation for why portions of society rejects conservative values for quite some time? Anywhere people who question conservative ideals congregate gets accused of being part of a shadowy left-wing plot with the goal of forcing everyone to agree with them.


This may also be historic hangover from the Macarthy era which BTW also impacted neo-liberal governments in Canada and Australia. In the 1950s in Australia the conservative Menzies government conducted a similar witch hunt against people with socialist leanings, particularly organisations like universities, labor unions and newspaper houses. This might explain the conservative belief that such places house communist sleeper cells :roll:

One of the weirder things that happened in the 50s was the rise of the influence of the Church of Scientology in Australia, Not many people remember that even politicians in Australia were flirting with this organisation while attacking intellectuals who were accused of collaborating with the Soviet Union.



uncommondenominator
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08 Dec 2020, 6:45 pm

slam_thunderhide wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
slam_thunderhide wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:

All these companies going "woke" is a reflection of the hip wealthy cohort thinking that way.


That is just delusional. The elites decide what they want, and then they manufacture consent - not the other way round. If some companies are responding to the "woke" opinions of young people, it's only because those young people have had those "woke" opinions put into their heads by elites in the media and academia, not because those young people have figured anything out for themselves.

The naivety on this sub-forum is remarkable. I'm sure that only a few years ago it wasn't this bad.


Calls people delusional, cites a conspiracy theory.

You can't make this stuff up, folks...


Lololol. You know, I sometimes wonder why people on this sub-forum are so abnormally fond of the term "conspirsacy theory". I guess to some people with A.S. the idea of other people actually working together to achieve a goal is too incredible to contemplate.

When I compare some of the old threads on this sub-forum with the rubbish that gets posted now, I really do find it remarkable how low this sub-forum has sunk.


A lovely, yet meaningless, ad-hominem attack. Yeah, its funny how when people push conspiracy theories, people use the term "conspiracy theory" to refer to those conspiracy theories.

I mean, TECHNICALLY, I supposed it would be more accurate to call it a "conspiracy hypothesis", but there's already enough mud in the water without getting bogged down by that.

It's cute how you've put it in such mild and vague terms as to imply that I find it "unreasonable" that "people can cooperate", in stark contrast to the ACTUAL claim that "the media and academia are in league with the elite", which is a LOT more people being expected to act in a covert and coordinated manner.

It's also nice how you've weaponized the trope that A.S. individuals have difficulty integrating with others in order to blame my autism for not agreeing with your idea. Nice move, using autism to discredit someone on an autism support site. Feel proud of that one, do ya?

Antrax wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Antrax wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:

Government money is not like a gift from grandma, and once you have it you can do whatever you want with it. Businesses with government involvement are NOT free to do as they please.

Side note - a tax break isn't money from the government - it's relief from otherwise owed taxes relating to assets and income. Tax breaks do not help a business that is not making money.


I think you added this part after my original response. Agreed on the first part. A business taking money from the government must then follow the governments rules. This can result in what would otherwise be harmful business practices being propped up by the government. The agenda comes from the government not the business.

Tax breaks decrease costs. Sure if you're operating at a loss and don't pay any taxes it won't help you. But say your profit margin is 11%. You implement a practice that hurts your business for a government tax break. That is without the tax break it, the practice would drop your profit margin to 9%, but with the tax break your after tax profit margin
rises to 12%. The government artificially makes it favorable to implement that practice.


But if you're making zero money, then you have zero money. Not paying taxes on zero money doesn't make more than zero money magically appear. Tax breaks do not reduce cost, they increase retained revenue.


Your statement is technically more correct than mine. Although the finer points of corporate tax law are beyond my expertise. I'm not entirely certain a company operating a loss won't be subject to any taxation. More often we hear about companies that make a lot of money not paying any tax, but it might be industry dependent. I know for example of the tricks hollywood studios use to keep the tax bill down, but those tricks won't work for an oil company.

I think a possible misconception here is that a company making any amount of money is a successful company. A company making barely more than cost on an average year, won't be able to grow, and if some adverse event hits like say a global pandemic or a recession will go under.

I don't want to get too bogged down in this. I think we can both agree that the government can influence corporate policy with contracts, subsidies, and tax breaks contingent on certain practices.


It's actually quite a bit more complicated than that. It's another long explanation that I'd really only care to get into if people actually want to read it. Let me know and I'll do so.

Short version is, no stakeholder would allow a business to run at meager margins with minimal returns simply to act as a propaganda machine instead of enriching their wealth, unless the whole reason they invested in the business was to make it a propaganda machine rather than to make money in the first place. If they chose to invest in a BUSINESS, then they have every right to expect it to run like a business. If they meant for it to be a propaganda machine when they invested in the first place, then it's not really a business anymore to begin with, since it's main goal is to spread propaganda rather than to make or sell a product or service.

At any rate, while yes, there are ways that government officials can affect the actions of corporations, the idea that a government official can use official government funds and contracts to compel a company to become an active political force, for any "agenda", tends to be a bit of a Federal crime. The government can compel a government subsidiary or contract holder to stay out of an issue - they cannot compel them to act on behalf of an issue. To do so would be an overt violation of federal law.

For example, it is legal to make a rule saying "you cannot discuss Issue A", but you cannot make a rule that says "you have to tell people that Issue A is fake", and you cannot make a rule that says "you have to tell people that Issue A is real". And, this still only applies to agencies which are a part of, or have contracts with, the government.

---------

As for FaceBork, they legally can "prioritize" their policies, including action on what they deem to be "hate speech", however they want. I'd be happy to explain why, if any would like to know.

People will tend to claim "bias" when someone does something other than the way they consider "normal". Ironically, these same people often accuse those who disagree of simply disliking anyone who disagrees with them. It's the same level of paradoxical irony as when people get offended by the fact that people are offended by things.

Freedom of speech is a bit more complicated than people often realize.



Pepe
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08 Dec 2020, 10:36 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Pepe wrote:
We will have to agree to disagree.
I have seen the left-wing bias, first hand, on the ABC.
I used to watch it all the time, for political balance, but I'm so disgusted by its left-wing partisanship, I *literally* refuse to watch it any longer. :thumbdown: :


The ABC has been fighting to demonstrate they remain impartial in reporting the news objectively. They have survived against a constant attack from the Libs alleging leftwing bias for years. The Libs had three victories in recent years against the ABC i) they have managed to appoint their own people as managing directors of the ABC namely Michelle Guthrie and now ita Buttrose ii) under these two the ABC has been shedding staff and stations under the guise of "corporate austerity" reducing their capacity to report/investigate corruption particularly in big business whom are the Libs masters are and iii) the Libs got ASIO to harass ABC journalists over investigations into the conduct of Australian soldiers in Afghanistan and strangely a year later the Dept of defence were forced to reveal a cover up over war crimes. This sends a message toi the ABC journalists to not poke their nose into the affairs of the Australian liberal government and its dirty little secrets


Interesting, but it doesn't change the fact that the ABC has a heavy left-wing bias. 8)

I can do this all day and night, if i need to. :mrgreen:


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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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funeralxempire
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08 Dec 2020, 10:38 pm

From a far-right perspective of course the media appears to have a left-leaning bias. From a far-left perspective the media appears to have a centre-right bias.


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08 Dec 2020, 10:56 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
There seems to be two assumptions embedded in the arguments being presented here.

Pepe insists that he's "seen" the "bias", but all that proves is that Pepe considers anything "left" of his own views to be "bias", even if he does fancy himself Da Orakle Of Troof, and Da Most Impartial 8)


Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)

uncommondenominator wrote:
Perhaps it's not that "everyone is to the left" as it is YOU are more to the right, and drew your own line of demarcation, and are now saying "I'M not biased, everyone ELSE is!"


Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)

uncommondenominator wrote:
Just a thought. There was a time in my life when I thought everyone was being mean to me - and then I realized I was being a jerk to everyone, and didn't realize it. I stopped being a jerk, and now people are much nicer to me. It was like magic. When one finds themselves in a mindset where its "me vs everyone", it might be time to take a step back and ask some hard questions.


Invalid analogy.
Rather odd, actually.
I am a moderate conservative independent.
There is no need for me to change.
I am perfect, just as I am. 8)

Also, the shows I watch have both left *and* right representatives, unlike the ABC.
But if there does happen to be a conservative, from time to time, he/she is outnumbered 4 to 1, and is pummelled.

You can't dismiss the facts that the ABC has virtually all presenters with a left-wing bias.
Prove to me that I Andrew & Co is wrong. 8)


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


uncommondenominator
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09 Dec 2020, 2:03 am

Pepe wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
There seems to be two assumptions embedded in the arguments being presented here.

Pepe insists that he's "seen" the "bias", but all that proves is that Pepe considers anything "left" of his own views to be "bias", even if he does fancy himself Da Orakle Of Troof, and Da Most Impartial 8)


Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)

uncommondenominator wrote:
Perhaps it's not that "everyone is to the left" as it is YOU are more to the right, and drew your own line of demarcation, and are now saying "I'M not biased, everyone ELSE is!"


Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)

uncommondenominator wrote:
Just a thought. There was a time in my life when I thought everyone was being mean to me - and then I realized I was being a jerk to everyone, and didn't realize it. I stopped being a jerk, and now people are much nicer to me. It was like magic. When one finds themselves in a mindset where its "me vs everyone", it might be time to take a step back and ask some hard questions.


Invalid analogy.
Rather odd, actually.
I am a moderate conservative independent.
There is no need for me to change.
I am perfect, just as I am. 8)

Also, the shows I watch have both left *and* right representatives, unlike the ABC.
But if there does happen to be a conservative, from time to time, he/she is outnumbered 4 to 1, and is pummelled.

You can't dismiss the facts that the ABC has virtually all presenters with a left-wing bias.
Prove to me that I Andrew & Co is wrong. 8)


You keep saying "based on what I have heard" as if that actually carries any weight, and isn't just something people say to make themselves sound more credible. Your argument supposes the validity of the claim as part of the argument. It's a complex question based on circular logic. "Pepe makes claim A and asserts it to be true. Then, based on the supposition that it is true, Pepe asserts a conclusion based on his asserted claim".

Repeating it over and over is merely argument ad infinitum. It's no less a fallacy the fourth time you repeat it than the first.

Simply stating that something is an invalid analogy doesn't make it one. Saying things doesn't make them true 8)

Claiming that presenters have left wing bias is subjective at best. And, saying things doesn't make it so 8)

You're just saying things, and expecting me to DISprove them. That's not how that works. YOU are claiming disproportionate representation, YOU get to prove it. I'm not gonna do your homework for you, only for you to claim everything I find is "more biased leftist misinformation" unless it happens to prove you right or agree with you in even the slightest manner. Near as I can tell, anything I say is merely "what a leftist would say" - unless it agrees with you. And I do believe that's a nice blend of circular logic with a dash marginalization.

It's good that you're happy with who you are. Confidence is generally a good thing. However, the point was whether or not you're happy with OTHER people. Even if you're happy with your beliefs, that doesn't preclude them from being misplaced. Isn't that essentially the root of "ignorance is bliss?" Of course its more pleasing to the ego to decide "I'm awesome and everyone else is a hater!" You're a clever fella, and clever fellas are good at arguing whatever conclusion they want. But while slick logic snarky wit and the ability to perplex an opponent might go a long way to sounding convincing, it still doesn't actually make things true 8)

Of course, much like "votur frawd", it doesn't have to be real, as long as you can get people to believe it.

Also, yah, it's crazy how "left" news has "left" news presenters, and "right" news has "right" news presenters. Of course, even if they did have presenters from the "other side", if they agreed with the others, they'd just be called "fake", and would only be considered "unbiased" if they said the things they were expected to say. Cos it really seems like the criteria used to determine whether something is Left or Impartial, is whether it agrees with YOU, or THEM, and if it sounds like THEM, it's biased, because it is, because they are, because I said so 8)

It's great that you can so masterfully craft your opinions, and have the confidence to share them unashamedly. The degree to which you overvalue them may be excessive at times, but that's part of your charm. But people are not obligated to conform to your arbitrary "rules of debate", least of all when you don't even follow your own rules much of the time.



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09 Dec 2020, 2:10 am

Pepe wrote:
Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)


Maybe we could read that information a couple different ways. Those who look to be hired by the ABC are not conservative, not being paid more by rich private owners, and so on. Do you have actual evidence that there are hiring practices that favour those with leftwing beliefs over conservative? And what type of conservative beliefs do you think the ABC is discriminatory against?


Pepe wrote:
Invalid analogy.
Rather odd, actually.
I am a moderate conservative independent.
There is no need for me to change.
I am perfect, just as I am. 8)

Also, the shows I watch have both left *and* right representatives, unlike the ABC.
But if there does happen to be a conservative, from time to time, he/she is outnumbered 4 to 1, and is pummelled.

You can't dismiss the facts that the ABC has virtually all presenters with a left-wing bias.
Prove to me that I Andrew & Co is wrong. 8)


Just curious, what shows do you watch that you think are so impartial with fair representation from the left and right?


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09 Dec 2020, 3:04 am

uncommondenominator wrote:
Pepe wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
There seems to be two assumptions embedded in the arguments being presented here.

Pepe insists that he's "seen" the "bias", but all that proves is that Pepe considers anything "left" of his own views to be "bias", even if he does fancy himself Da Orakle Of Troof, and Da Most Impartial 8)


Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)

uncommondenominator wrote:
Perhaps it's not that "everyone is to the left" as it is YOU are more to the right, and drew your own line of demarcation, and are now saying "I'M not biased, everyone ELSE is!"


Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)

uncommondenominator wrote:
Just a thought. There was a time in my life when I thought everyone was being mean to me - and then I realized I was being a jerk to everyone, and didn't realize it. I stopped being a jerk, and now people are much nicer to me. It was like magic. When one finds themselves in a mindset where its "me vs everyone", it might be time to take a step back and ask some hard questions.


Invalid analogy.
Rather odd, actually.
I am a moderate conservative independent.
There is no need for me to change.
I am perfect, just as I am. 8)

Also, the shows I watch have both left *and* right representatives, unlike the ABC.
But if there does happen to be a conservative, from time to time, he/she is outnumbered 4 to 1, and is pummelled.

You can't dismiss the facts that the ABC has virtually all presenters with a left-wing bias.
Prove to me that I Andrew & Co is wrong. 8)


You keep saying "based on what I have heard" as if that actually carries any weight, and isn't just something people say to make themselves sound more credible.


Do you want me to say: "Based on what I made up"?
So, you have a problem with my honesty?

You always come at me with attack mode activated.
So many people do.
It would be nice to have discussions rather than debates.

I have information sources that have been proven, over many years, to be very reliable.
Referring to people, whose job it is to be informed, is a rather logical thing to do, in my mind.
Where do you get your information? :scratch:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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09 Dec 2020, 3:08 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)


Maybe we could read that information a couple different ways. Those who look to be hired by the ABC are not conservative, not being paid more by rich private owners, and so on. Do you have actual evidence that there are hiring practices that favour those with leftwing beliefs over conservative? And what type of conservative beliefs do you think the ABC is discriminatory against?


Tell me one news presenter, on the ABC, who has a right-wing political affiliation.
Simples.

I will research the person, and get back to you. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Antrax
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09 Dec 2020, 3:32 am

funeralxempire wrote:
From a far-right perspective of course the media appears to have a left-leaning bias. From a far-left perspective the media appears to have a centre-right bias.


I think the media's leaning relative to the country is the best way to describe its bias.

I can't speak for Australia, but in the U.S. the ratio of self described Democrats to self described Republicans in the media is 4:1. In the country as a whole the same ratio is 1.1:1. Fairly obvious the media has a Democrat (leftward) tilt relative to the country.


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Last edited by Antrax on 09 Dec 2020, 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Antrax
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09 Dec 2020, 3:35 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Based on what I have heard, not one conservative is employed on their news team.
If true, how can there *not* be left-wing bias in hiring? 8)


Maybe we could read that information a couple different ways. Those who look to be hired by the ABC are not conservative, not being paid more by rich private owners, and so on. Do you have actual evidence that there are hiring practices that favour those with leftwing beliefs over conservative? And what type of conservative beliefs do you think the ABC is discriminatory against?



I know nothing about the ABC, but find this explanation extremely plausible.

Please apply same logic when you witness a disparity in another profession. It might not be discrimination on the employer's part.


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09 Dec 2020, 3:42 am

Antrax wrote:
I can't speak for Australia, but in the U.S. the ratio of self described Democrats to self described Republicans is 4:1. In the country as a whole the same ratio is 1.1:1. Fairly obvious the media has a Democrat (leftward) tilt relative to the country.


Why do republicans hide their political affiliation? do they worry they might get called racists and can't defend their beliefs?



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09 Dec 2020, 4:06 am

Pepe wrote:
Tell me one news presenter, on the ABC, who has a right-wing political affiliation.
Simples.

I will research the person, and get back to you. 8)


I generally think that rightwing news presenters are either grifters in it for money, or ignorant to actual facts and so either don't do well to actual facts or would actually shift their position when properly educated. So someone with rightwing political affiliation would either be turned away by lack of money as no one is paying them to grift, and either can't stay ignorant for long or would be fired for bad for poor journalistic practices.

Why would someone with rightwing political affiliation choose to join the ABC, where they will earn less and can't get away with making blanket statements about blaming foreigners, millennials and other things that are rightwing bogeyman? This is not evidence of discriminatory practices. I can't find a non-binary news presenter, can I claim that every news source in Australia is discriminating against non-binary people?


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09 Dec 2020, 4:24 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Tell me one news presenter, on the ABC, who has a right-wing political affiliation.
Simples.

I will research the person, and get back to you. 8)


I generally think that rightwing news presenters are either grifters in it for money, or ignorant to actual facts and so either don't do well to actual facts or would actually shift their position when properly educated. So someone with rightwing political affiliation would either be turned away by lack of money as no one is paying them to grift, and either can't stay ignorant for long or would be fired for bad for poor journalistic practices.

Why would someone with rightwing political affiliation choose to join the ABC, where they will earn less and can't get away with making blanket statements about blaming foreigners, millennials and other things that are rightwing bogeyman? This is not evidence of discriminatory practices. I can't find a non-binary news presenter, can I claim that every news source in Australia is discriminating against non-binary people?



So, no, there are no conservatives on the ABC.
My point stands.
Thank you. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


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09 Dec 2020, 5:08 am

Pepe wrote:
So, no, there are no conservatives on the ABC.
My point stands.
Thank you. 8)


Because the conservative opinion is anti-fact.

You still have not provided what the source of news you watch that apparently is even handed with both sides of the political aisle and apparently a great source of facts. I sure hope it is not something funded by Murdoch. The rich benefit from conservative politics, because it keeps the system that put them in power and makes them money.

It just so happens that facts not influenced by those people appears to be left leaning. The often conservative opinion is that even handed politics are the kind that treats people who are racist and people who are anti-racist as the same thing, which is still in favour of a conservative position in not addressing problems.


And okay, tell me, how would have Leftwing people been able to take over the ABC when Liberal has been in power for so long?


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Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall