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cyberdad
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08 Jul 2021, 9:28 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well is really important that the race of the actor matches the race of the character all the time? For example, no one comes after Schindler's List, because some of the Jewish actors are not actually Jewish for example, but maybe in time Schindler's List will be cancelled as well in a sense, because of that?


Have you seen any Hollywood/Dinsey film are cartoon involving a middle eastern country, Asian country or even African country where the actor playing the role (or voice) matches the race??

Please show me one example...



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09 Jul 2021, 1:33 am

I don't look for those things when I watch movies. I feel they should go for the best voice actor based on talent, not race. Why is race such a big deal when it comes to voice acting?



cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 1:53 am

ironpony wrote:
I don't look for those things when I watch movies. I feel they should go for the best voice actor based on talent, not race. Why is race such a big deal when it comes to voice acting?


Sure....so how do you think that would work for Black Panther or Downton Abbey?



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09 Jul 2021, 2:07 am

I haven't seen Downtown Abbey so I cannot comment. But Black Panther is live action, so it the race is much more obvious when you see the person, compared to a voice.

Okay, here's an example. In the Simpsons, Bart Simpson's voice is done by a female adult actor. But no one cares. No one says let's cancel her because she is not a boy doing the voice. So no one cares there, and think's it's a big deal. So why is it a big deal to make the actor of Apu, match the character in race, but no one cares if Bart is voiced by an adult woman?



cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 2:14 am

ironpony wrote:
I haven't seen Downtown Abbey so I cannot comment. But Black Panther is live action, so it the race is much more obvious when you see the person, compared to a voice.

Downtown Abbey cast
Image

Its one of the most popular drams of all time. I think you'll see a similar homogeneity on the sets of other major TV dramas

ironpony wrote:
ISo why is it a big deal to make the actor of Apu, match the character in race, but no one cares if Bart is voiced by an adult woman?


because Frank Azaria did brownface to imitate Apu's voice.



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09 Jul 2021, 2:15 am

What do you mean he used 'brownface' exactly?



cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 2:17 am

Like the old minstrels show, the black face actors used "mammy" voice



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09 Jul 2021, 2:20 am

I'm sorry I don't understand. You are saying that Azaria is doing something offensive with his voice while doing the imitation?



cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 2:39 am

ironpony wrote:
I'm sorry I don't understand. You are saying that Azaria is doing something offensive with his voice while doing the imitation?


Yep, even Azaria knew it which is why he eventually stepped out of the role. Its a thick accent imitating what Azaria and writers of the Simpsons assume a typical Indian sounds like. The reality is most Indians sound like white Americans.



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09 Jul 2021, 2:50 am

Oh okay, but Indians who work in convenience stores in real life do have thick accents though a lot of the time.



cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 4:36 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but Indians who work in convenience stores in real life do have thick accents though a lot of the time.


Yes they do...but...here's the thing...given there is only minimal representation of Indians on TV then Apu becomes the default for "Indians" many a generation growing up with TV.

The average Joe isn't interested in geography or history or culture. Even those who present themselves as "cultured" and "worldly" tend to pay attention to what they think is "high culture" or "relevant", India and Indians doesn't fall into either bracket.

Therefore for the average American when they think of an Indian they will think of a turbaned Indian man they see in the train station who sounds like Apu from the Simpsons.



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09 Jul 2021, 9:08 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but Indians who work in convenience stores in real life do have thick accents though a lot of the time.


Yes they do...but...here's the thing...given there is only minimal representation of Indians on TV then Apu becomes the default for "Indians" many a generation growing up with TV.

The average Joe isn't interested in geography or history or culture. Even those who present themselves as "cultured" and "worldly" tend to pay attention to what they think is "high culture" or "relevant", India and Indians doesn't fall into either bracket.

Therefore for the average American when they think of an Indian they will think of a turbaned Indian man they see in the train station who sounds like Apu from the Simpsons.


But I think that if people think of Apu as a default, that that's not the show's fault and people are just being close-minded it sounds like, and that a character shouldn't be removed from a show, just because some people who don't even seem to like the show, are being close-minded about it.

Also, the problem with cancel culture is that by canceling, they make the problems worse. If there is only minimal representation of Indian characters in fiction, then by cancelling Apu, you have lowered the number of Indian characters.

It's the same with cancelling Speedy Gonzalez. Cancel Culture is getting rid of the non-white characters. So a few years they will asking, where are all non-white characters in fiction. The answer is 'because you cancelled them all!" So I don't see how getting rid of non-white characters, is suppose to improve representation of non-white characters.



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09 Jul 2021, 4:14 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but Indians who work in convenience stores in real life do have thick accents though a lot of the time.


Yes they do...but...here's the thing...given there is only minimal representation of Indians on TV then Apu becomes the default for "Indians" many a generation growing up with TV.

The average Joe isn't interested in geography or history or culture. Even those who present themselves as "cultured" and "worldly" tend to pay attention to what they think is "high culture" or "relevant", India and Indians doesn't fall into either bracket.

Therefore for the average American when they think of an Indian they will think of a turbaned Indian man they see in the train station who sounds like Apu from the Simpsons.


The vice president is half South Asian, and several other high profile politicians (left, right, and center), are South Asian. One of the nerdy brainiac characters in the Big Bang Theory was an Indian, and Kumar (of Harold and Kumar) was the nere do well stoner son of doctor. Americans are not that deprived of Indian faces, of varying types, in the media anymore.

You make it sound like Apu is like Amos and Andy. Its not THAT bad.



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09 Jul 2021, 10:03 pm

ironpony wrote:
Also, the problem with cancel culture is that by canceling, they make the problems worse. If there is only minimal representation of Indian characters in fiction, then by cancelling Apu, you have lowered the number of Indian characters.

It's the same with cancelling Speedy Gonzalez. Cancel Culture is getting rid of the non-white characters. So a few years they will asking, where are all non-white characters in fiction. The answer is 'because you cancelled them all!" So I don't see how getting rid of non-white characters, is suppose to improve representation of non-white characters.


Yep, this is why the producers may have overestimated the backlash. As with hispanics and speedy, I don't think Indians particularly cared and if anything Apu was at least flying the flag for Indian representation.

As I said the war on Apu was waged by one comedian Hari Kondabalu who felt that if an Indian was going to be Simpsons they should i) be an Indian actor and ii) be less stereotypical.



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09 Jul 2021, 10:06 pm

ironpony wrote:
It's the same with cancelling Speedy Gonzalez. Cancel Culture is getting rid of the non-white characters. So a few years they will asking, where are all non-white characters in fiction. The answer is 'because you cancelled them all!" So I don't see how getting rid of non-white characters, is suppose to improve representation of non-white characters.


You say this like non-white creators would stop creating non-white characters. :?


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cyberdad
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09 Jul 2021, 10:11 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The vice president is half South Asian, and several other high profile politicians (left, right, and center), are South Asian. One of the nerdy brainiac characters in the Big Bang Theory was an Indian, and Kumar (of Harold and Kumar) was the nere do well stoner son of doctor. Americans are not that deprived of Indian faces, of varying types, in the media anymore.

You make it sound like Apu is like Amos and Andy. Its not THAT bad.


I didn't say that. I just said that one comedian waged a war on Apu. I don't care myself.

Let's deconstruct the other two. Kumar from Harold and Kumar is another stereotype of being socially awkward but he's funny. The Indian nerd in Big Bang is also a stereotype of being a nerd, Nobody particularly cares about either character, they pass the muster.

More relevant role-models are Mindy Kaling (Writer), Hasan Minhaj (comedian) Lilly Singh (comedy central), Maitrey Ramakrishnan (Netflix actress). These four are really funny and smart. A lot of Indians are openly proud of them.

A few notable mentions are Aziz Ansari who was unfortunately tarnished due to a scandal and Russell Peters who's comedy is funny but a bit on the crude side.

As for Kamala Harris, you may be surprised to know that she's been claimed by the black community. Indian people don't claim her.