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Rexi
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18 Mar 2021, 3:17 am

Just getting right into it:

'What, exactly is cancel culture?
Is it someone getting fired for harassment or problematic views? No, that's a workplace doing its job.
Is it a popular figure losing fans or affiliations because of their past actions? No, that's the power of public opinion.
Is it a company choosing not to publish a book, or a group of people boycotting a brand? No, that's just the free market at work.'

'Some radio stations decided to stop playing his songs, but they climbed up the Spotify charts nonetheless, and his album sales and social media followers skyrocketed. So far, his career has certainly not be canceled.
Neither were the careers of Lana Del Ray, Doja Cat, Camila Cabello, Justin Bieber or other singers accused of racist speech.'

'There are things cancel culture doesn't fight for
[picture...]
Eli Harold, Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid of the San Francisco 49ers kneel during the anthem a game in 2016 in Orchard Park, New York.
Women afraid to speak up for fear of being blacklisted, LGBTQ people hiding their identities to protect their careers or lives, people shunned for their culture or their views:
These are the real problems that exist. It's not cancel culture.'



https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/07/us/cancel-culture-accountability-reality-trnd/index.html


'This scenario illustrates one of the biggest misconceptions people have about the First Amendment. Bottom line: It protects you from the government punishing or censoring or oppressing your speech. It doesn't apply to private organizations, like Twitter and Facebook, so those companies can ban speech the First Amendment would otherwise protect.'

'Protesters who chanted threats against lawmakers on the streets of Washington or in public places were protected by the First Amendment, Gutterman says. Their speech could be considered "political hyperbole" -- incendiary, sure, but ultimately not a true threat.
But once they broke into the Capitol, the context changed, Nott says, and their speech may be considered a true threat since they had a "very real chance of encountering the politicians they were threatening."
Many of the rioters that stormed the Capitol still haven't been charged or arrested yet, so it remains to be seen whether they'll claim protection under the First Amendment.'

'Twitter removed several of President Trump's tweets last week reacting to the violence at the US Capitol before it suspended his account. As a private company, it has the power to do that -- even to the President of the United States, Gutterman says.'



https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics/first-amendment-explainer-2021-trnd/index.html

Conclusion: cancel cult. doesn't exist inside the land of logic. It distracts from the bigger problem.


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ASPartOfMe
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18 Mar 2021, 4:18 am

Rexi wrote:
Just getting right into it:

'What, exactly is cancel culture?
Is it someone getting fired for harassment or problematic views? No, that's a workplace doing its job.
Is it a popular figure losing fans or affiliations because of their past actions? No, that's the power of public opinion.
Is it a company choosing not to publish a book, or a group of people boycotting a brand? No, that's just the free market at work.'

'Some radio stations decided to stop playing his songs, but they climbed up the Spotify charts nonetheless, and his album sales and social media followers skyrocketed. So far, his career has certainly not be canceled.
Neither were the careers of Lana Del Ray, Doja Cat, Camila Cabello, Justin Bieber or other singers accused of racist speech.'

'There are things cancel culture doesn't fight for
[picture...]
Eli Harold, Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid of the San Francisco 49ers kneel during the anthem a game in 2016 in Orchard Park, New York.
Women afraid to speak up for fear of being blacklisted, LGBTQ people hiding their identities to protect their careers or lives, people shunned for their culture or their views:
These are the real problems that exist. It's not cancel culture.'



https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/07/us/cancel-culture-accountability-reality-trnd/index.html


'This scenario illustrates one of the biggest misconceptions people have about the First Amendment. Bottom line: It protects you from the government punishing or censoring or oppressing your speech. It doesn't apply to private organizations, like Twitter and Facebook, so those companies can ban speech the First Amendment would otherwise protect.'

'Protesters who chanted threats against lawmakers on the streets of Washington or in public places were protected by the First Amendment, Gutterman says. Their speech could be considered "political hyperbole" -- incendiary, sure, but ultimately not a true threat.
But once they broke into the Capitol, the context changed, Nott says, and their speech may be considered a true threat since they had a "very real chance of encountering the politicians they were threatening."
Many of the rioters that stormed the Capitol still haven't been charged or arrested yet, so it remains to be seen whether they'll claim protection under the First Amendment.'

'Twitter removed several of President Trump's tweets last week reacting to the violence at the US Capitol before it suspended his account. As a private company, it has the power to do that -- even to the President of the United States, Gutterman says.'



https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/12/politics/first-amendment-explainer-2021-trnd/index.html

Conclusion: cancel cult. doesn't exist inside the land of logic. It distracts from the bigger problem.


Basically what is described as "cancel culture" is and is not .
1. Is not literally about protected free speech rights. "Free speech" is often used collequally to mean free expression, freedom from censorship.

2. It is doing what has always been done. What is described as "cancel culture" is the belief that what has become unacceptable is too much, and the consequences for "minor" problematic action or speech have become too harsh. This is thought to have unfairly ruined careers and lives and chilled freedom of expression to the point that new possibly useful ideas won't get heard and eventually acted upon.

Those people that boycotted those football players were engaging in a form of cancel culture. Colin Kapernick has apparently been "canceled", he hasn't played since he started the take a knee movement.


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18 Mar 2021, 8:43 am

Rexi wrote:
Just getting right into it:

'What, exactly is cancel culture?


I thought it is partly to do with people harassing someone out of the community because they don't like what they say.
The cancel culture doesn't like freedom of expression.

Aren't those embracing cancel culture addicted to power-lust? :scratch: 8)


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18 Mar 2021, 8:49 am

Thank you for expressing this better than I could!

Free speech should include freedom not to speak too. And freedom to withdraw speech.

If not then, where would it end? If I tweet something and want it deleted later on because it hurt someone that's my right. If a company produces a series of Gollywogs then decides to get rid of that line later on, that's their right to withdraw.

And private companies have a right to set rules on free speech. Don't like that? Don't be capitalist. If I decide nobody in my house is allowed to say something racist and someone says something racist, it's my right to kick them out.

Heck there's a pub down my street which allows no foul language. Do I agree with that rule? No. Is it their right to impose it? Yes. I'm not being cancelled if I choose to go in there and say a swear word and I get kicked out.

If people want to be racist etc just go on Parler or 4chan, 'human up' and do that. Don't spread it round Twitter then kick up a stink after you (generic you, not OP or whoever's reading this) get banned.


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funeralxempire
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18 Mar 2021, 8:53 am

Pepe wrote:
Rexi wrote:
Just getting right into it:

'What, exactly is cancel culture?


I thought it is partly to do with people harassing someone out of the community because they don't like what they say.
The cancel culture doesn't like freedom of expression.

Aren't those embracing cancel culture addicted to power-lust? :scratch: 8)


No, those spreading the lie of cancel culture are just angry they've lost control over society's standards of decency.



Rexi
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18 Mar 2021, 9:44 am

KT67 wrote:
Thank you for expressing this better than I could!

Free speech should include freedom not to speak too. And freedom to withdraw speech.

If not then, where would it end? If I tweet something and want it deleted later on because it hurt someone that's my right. If a company produces a series of Gollywogs then decides to get rid of that line later on, that's their right to withdraw.

And private companies have a right to set rules on free speech. Don't like that? Don't be capitalist. If I decide nobody in my house is allowed to say something racist and someone says something racist, it's my right to kick them out.

Heck there's a pub down my street which allows no foul language. Do I agree with that rule? No. Is it their right to impose it? Yes. I'm not being cancelled if I choose to go in there and say a swear word and I get kicked out.

If people want to be racist etc just go on Parler or 4chan, 'human up' and do that. Don't spread it round Twitter then kick up a stink after you (generic you, not OP or whoever's reading this) get banned.

Thanks. I liked your takes on it in other threads, my favorites, very explanatory and I liked xempire's own ones too.


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funeralxempire
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18 Mar 2021, 10:13 am

Rexi wrote:
Thanks. I liked your takes on it in other threads, my favorites, very explanatory and I liked xempire's own ones too.


I like how you framed your take.
I'm going to be making a video about this topic soon.



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18 Mar 2021, 12:55 pm

So much more progress can be made if we don't nurture a society that burns people at the stake for not keeping up with the ever increasing list of offenses that are not tolerable.

I'm sorry, but this a real phenomenon that needs to be addressed. Denying the negative aspects of it, or denying it's existence at all, is very troubling.

I liken this denial to people on the right who deny systematic racism is an issue.


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18 Mar 2021, 4:59 pm

"Cancel Culture Doesn't Excite" Me Either.



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18 Mar 2021, 6:30 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
So much more progress can be made if we don't nurture a society that burns people at the stake for not keeping up with the ever increasing list of offenses that are not tolerable.


Hmm... Smaller progress on a large scale maybe, adding up to "more" - but this way, a smaller number can be progressed more rapidly.

I actually don't like the word progress, it implies a historic direction - but where are we going?

So, the stakeburning alliws for a smaller group to establish themselves and their core beliefs somewhat firmly in a limited area, as opposed to a slow but widespread move towards some of those core beliefs.

It's not clear a non-confrontational strategy guarantees longterm success, or any success at all. But in the past, a lot of good ideas came with stake burning. Democracy for example.


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18 Mar 2021, 7:02 pm

Rexi wrote:
What, exactly is cancel culture?

Prigs exercising power



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18 Mar 2021, 7:13 pm

Ball wrote:
Rexi wrote:
What, exactly is cancel culture?

Prigs exercising power

Influential people enabling them out of fear and greed.


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18 Mar 2021, 7:26 pm

How dare people withdraw their support from people (or other entities) they no longer wish to support.
Back in my day we just burned Beatles records and refused to watch gay actors.



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18 Mar 2021, 7:34 pm

There will always be some kind of moral standards of decency in society.

People who act like this is something new need to stop pretending the Hayes Code didn't exist.

Or new in education? OK then stop pretending Section 28 didn't happen.

Or new in social interactions? People have always chosen who to hang about with based on morals including morals which others might think are judgy like not hanging out with 'homosexuals' or single mothers. In any case: people can choose what friends to have - as long as it goes both ways - or even choose not to have any at all.

I'd rather it was about reducing bigotry than other kinds of standards of decency which usually come out of religion or even just bigotry and control.


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19 Mar 2021, 1:19 am

Do you mean "exist" and not "excite?"


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Rexi
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19 Mar 2021, 6:14 am

Pepe wrote:
Rexi wrote:
Just getting right into it:

'What, exactly is cancel culture?


I thought it is partly to do with people harassing someone out of the community because they don't like what they say.
The cancel culture doesn't like freedom of expression.

Aren't those embracing cancel culture addicted to power-lust? :scratch: 8)

It's different to be banned on a site for breaking their ToS or spreading hateful instigating views vs lose your job for who you are, for example being gay\an atheist.


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