Why does the United States not have mandated paid maternity

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goldfish21
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09 Apr 2021, 11:20 am

AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Because Americans don't demand it & American politicians have been good at selling citizens their corporate donors' lies about how providing for them would lead to communism blah blah blah.

Meanwhile we have maternity/paternity leave as well as universal healthcare and other things here in Canada.. that apparently the USA, with all it's money, can't afford.

Probably has something to do with all the money you guys spend on bombing other countries instead of building up your own.

The US doesn’t actually have money. What it doesn’t borrow from other countries in bonds it borrows against future taxes. If another global conflict broke out and the US was actually defeated, other superpowers would find themselves without a revenue stream and the world economy would be destroyed. The US economy is in a remarkably similar position as pre-NAZI Germany after the First World War. It’s just nobody is calling us on it. I wonder if the US national debt is the biggest deterrent since the nuclear bomb.

The last 4 years have been a blessing in that we’ve MOSTLY kept to ourselves militarily, which is as it should be. Our new administration doesn’t have quite the scruples as Trump did for avoiding international conflict, so we’ll just have to wait and see whether we can continue minding our own business. Odds favor getting involved in someone else’s war in the next 8 years. I say we annex Quebec and see if we can’t persuade Canada to throw in Alberta for free.

The immigration problem will meanwhile cause a significant drop in Mexico’s population. I think we should get together and independently start a colony somewhere in the mountains and bring in gangs from El Salvador as a security force. Not sure how we’d convince Mexico’s government to grant us a tax-free, free state, but I suppose that’s just a minor growing pain of a micronation. One thing’s for sure, though...you have a higher likelihood of a business operating there voluntarily offering paid maternity leave than you would in a nation that DEMANDS it.

I don’t want to say “I have to grant maternity leave.” I’d rather say “I get to grant maternity leave.” If the employees are valuable to the company, they are worth investing in even when they are unable to work. If you love them, you take care of them. You return value for value, and that means investing in them and their families. A new business that lacks a steady income stream won’t be able to do it. But companies that generate enough wealth to support parental leave for all employees can also afford to snipe employees from companies that don’t offer leave even when they can afford it, which means competition, not government, forces companies to offer incentives for employees to stay with them.


So, you're saying the newborn baby of a highly valued employee deserves a better start at life than one you're simply abusing for their labour? :chin: And only IF the employer wants to grant them leave? They could decide they're too valuable & needed at work and not let them have their leave.

Companies don't pay out of pocket for maternity/paternity leave. It's paid out via government - through Employment Insurance - which is paid into by every employee And every employer in the entire Province via payroll deductions & employer contributions, much like any group insurance policy.

Because all babies deserve parents around during their earliest days. USA doesn't comprehend this - same same for healthcare. Too much "I gots mine, F everybody else!" mentality going on down there.


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IrreversibleMistakes
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09 Apr 2021, 11:32 am

Lmao at paid maternity leave. I have 0 chance of any reproduction, not only because of my ASD, also because I'm of African origin (few Af origin women in my dating pool) . We have lavish maternity leave in my current home country btw.

I am all for unpaid maternity leave but can't support paid one. Ppl should pay the leave cost from their savings.

I was employed for 3 years and saved half my pay (because I was so averse of going anywhere except staying in my home). This despite paying all the taxes on my income.

NTs can even save more since they find better deals and can pool their resources.

I'm not joking. My sister got govt housing and easy job despite I got none. NT vs ASD in nutshell.


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goldfish21
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09 Apr 2021, 11:41 am

IrreversibleMistakes wrote:
Lmao at paid maternity leave. I have 0 chance of any reproduction, not only because of my ASD, also because I'm of African origin (few Af origin women in my dating pool) . We have lavish maternity leave in my current home country btw.

I am all for unpaid maternity leave but can't support paid one. Ppl should pay the leave cost from their savings.

I was employed for 3 years and saved half my pay (because I was so averse of going anywhere except staying in my home). This despite paying all the taxes on my income.

NTs can even save more since they find better deals and can pool their resources.

I'm not joking. My sister got govt housing and easy job despite I got none. NT vs ASD in nutshell.


And if someone gets pregnant at a young age before being able to save up a large sum of money?

And if they live in an are where it's next to impossible to save 10% never mind 50% of their income? Some places have extremely low incomes, others have extremely high costs (like where I live) - and so in these places only the wealthiest people should be allowed to have time to ensure their infants are well looked after and have an opportunity to thrive?

I much prefer the system that we have here in Canada & many European countries have: Everyone shoulders the cost for the benefit of everyone in collective society.


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IrreversibleMistakes
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09 Apr 2021, 11:49 am

goldfish21 wrote:
IrreversibleMistakes wrote:
Lmao at paid maternity leave. I have 0 chance of any reproduction, not only because of my ASD, also because I'm of African origin (few Af origin women in my dating pool) . We have lavish maternity leave in my current home country btw.

I am all for unpaid maternity leave but can't support paid one. Ppl should pay the leave cost from their savings.

I was employed for 3 years and saved half my pay (because I was so averse of going anywhere except staying in my home). This despite paying all the taxes on my income.

NTs can even save more since they find better deals and can pool their resources.

I'm not joking. My sister got govt housing and easy job despite I got none. NT vs ASD in nutshell.


And if someone gets pregnant at a young age before being able to save up a large sum of money?

And if they live in an are where it's next to impossible to save 10% never mind 50% of their income? Some places have extremely low incomes, others have extremely high costs (like where I live) - and so in these places only the wealthiest people should be allowed to have time to ensure their infants are well looked after and have an opportunity to thrive?

I much prefer the system that we have here in Canada & many European countries have: Everyone shoulders the cost for the benefit of everyone in collective society.


Afaik teenage pregnancy is rare and ppl having it can get help from certain programs if their parents don't help them.

They could take a loan if they have ability to function. Still this is women's perspective, I don't understand how ASD women behave.

But personally I am very unlikely to reproduce until I die.


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AngelRho
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09 Apr 2021, 12:29 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Because Americans don't demand it & American politicians have been good at selling citizens their corporate donors' lies about how providing for them would lead to communism blah blah blah.

Meanwhile we have maternity/paternity leave as well as universal healthcare and other things here in Canada.. that apparently the USA, with all it's money, can't afford.

Probably has something to do with all the money you guys spend on bombing other countries instead of building up your own.

The US doesn’t actually have money. What it doesn’t borrow from other countries in bonds it borrows against future taxes. If another global conflict broke out and the US was actually defeated, other superpowers would find themselves without a revenue stream and the world economy would be destroyed. The US economy is in a remarkably similar position as pre-NAZI Germany after the First World War. It’s just nobody is calling us on it. I wonder if the US national debt is the biggest deterrent since the nuclear bomb.

The last 4 years have been a blessing in that we’ve MOSTLY kept to ourselves militarily, which is as it should be. Our new administration doesn’t have quite the scruples as Trump did for avoiding international conflict, so we’ll just have to wait and see whether we can continue minding our own business. Odds favor getting involved in someone else’s war in the next 8 years. I say we annex Quebec and see if we can’t persuade Canada to throw in Alberta for free.

The immigration problem will meanwhile cause a significant drop in Mexico’s population. I think we should get together and independently start a colony somewhere in the mountains and bring in gangs from El Salvador as a security force. Not sure how we’d convince Mexico’s government to grant us a tax-free, free state, but I suppose that’s just a minor growing pain of a micronation. One thing’s for sure, though...you have a higher likelihood of a business operating there voluntarily offering paid maternity leave than you would in a nation that DEMANDS it.

I don’t want to say “I have to grant maternity leave.” I’d rather say “I get to grant maternity leave.” If the employees are valuable to the company, they are worth investing in even when they are unable to work. If you love them, you take care of them. You return value for value, and that means investing in them and their families. A new business that lacks a steady income stream won’t be able to do it. But companies that generate enough wealth to support parental leave for all employees can also afford to snipe employees from companies that don’t offer leave even when they can afford it, which means competition, not government, forces companies to offer incentives for employees to stay with them.


So, you're saying the newborn baby of a highly valued employee deserves a better start at life than one you're simply abusing for their labour? :chin: And only IF the employer wants to grant them leave? They could decide they're too valuable & needed at work and not let them have their leave.

Companies don't pay out of pocket for maternity/paternity leave. It's paid out via government - through Employment Insurance - which is paid into by every employee And every employer in the entire Province via payroll deductions & employer contributions, much like any group insurance policy.

Because all babies deserve parents around during their earliest days. USA doesn't comprehend this - same same for healthcare. Too much "I gots mine, F everybody else!" mentality going on down there.

Who said anything about someone getting abused for labor? Look, this is all very simple and easy. Do you want employees or not? If you want employees, you make your workplace more attractive, also meaning you have attractive policies and benefits. Don’t overly complicate things. If the work environment is hostile and you’re being abused, then seek employment elsewhere.

I’ll fill you in on a little secret: I felt that my church gig last year turned abusive...actually had felt for a few years, just felt helpless to get out of it. I was ready to walk out of a church service because of how a certain member was treating me and how nothing was being done about it. I was prepared for that to be my last paycheck when COVID hit. And at my school gig, I watched all the funding I’d worked so hard to get for my program evaporate right in front of me because other arts teachers believed they had rights to it. It was money earmarked for MY CLASSES, for equipment and materials. I went from having $30,000 to having $6,000. I started training my coworkers on what to do if I got fired, because I was expecting it. When COVID hit, I was producing instructional videos around the clock for 2 solid weeks. I left it up to the students after that, I did my job to take care of inventory at the end of the school year, and then I started applying to every school in the state I knew was looking for a band director and even to a few schools who weren’t. I made cold calls, the works. I found a private school willing to pay me 6 times my former salary, and about 6 months after I started my new job I got a new church gig. Nothing is ever perfect. But you know what? I don’t feel that I’m being abused, I’ve still got a steady part-time, and I’ve got opportunities everywhere to boost my income. All I have to do is wait.

Putting up with abuse and lack of incentives to work are not things any of us have to tolerate. If you are a woman and you’re looking for a company that won’t fire you for being pregnant and will offer paid parental leave, you can find or create jobs that offer those benefits. That’s a choice. This idea of some permanent victim class in which women can only suffer abuse and have no choices for employment and what they can reasonably expect from employers is pure fiction.



goldfish21
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09 Apr 2021, 7:33 pm

Why should women be locked out of certain jobs because the employers are unwilling to accommodate the fact that they reproduce?


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AngelRho
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09 Apr 2021, 7:54 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Why should women be locked out of certain jobs because the employers are unwilling to accommodate the fact that they reproduce?

Who's claiming they even are locked out of certain jobs? Besides, even if that's the case, then just don't work for those employers. Every employee or potential employee can take responsibility on their own to decide whether they want to work for jerks or not.

Let me put it another way: Why would you WANT to work for jerks? If an employer is unwilling to accommodate someone for any reason, why decide to work for them in the first place? I spent a significant time working for jerks. It didn't start out that way. I never intended to work in a toxic environment. When I understood that things would never improve, I moved on. I fired my employers and found a better situation to work in. It's long been part of my philosophy, I've repeated this often over the past few years on here. I've encouraged certain WP'ers if they find themselves in a bad situation and they feel stuck, sometimes all you can do is just move. I stand behind that regardless of the nature of any relationship we're discussing. If it's work related and you're dealing with a bad boss, you quit and find a new job. When you're talking about job descriptions and benefits and you specifically want parental leave, you look for that, you ask for that, you negotiate that, and if they won't offer that, you walk away from the table.

Seriously, how difficult is this to comprehend? You don't need expanded government, increased taxes, and wealth redistribution to take charge of your own life and make things happen.



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10 Apr 2021, 4:25 am

AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Why should women be locked out of certain jobs because the employers are unwilling to accommodate the fact that they reproduce?

Who's claiming they even are locked out of certain jobs? Besides, even if that's the case, then just don't work for those employers. Every employee or potential employee can take responsibility on their own to decide whether they want to work for jerks or not.

Let me put it another way: Why would you WANT to work for jerks? If an employer is unwilling to accommodate someone for any reason, why decide to work for them in the first place? I spent a significant time working for jerks. It didn't start out that way. I never intended to work in a toxic environment. When I understood that things would never improve, I moved on. I fired my employers and found a better situation to work in. It's long been part of my philosophy, I've repeated this often over the past few years on here. I've encouraged certain WP'ers if they find themselves in a bad situation and they feel stuck, sometimes all you can do is just move. I stand behind that regardless of the nature of any relationship we're discussing. If it's work related and you're dealing with a bad boss, you quit and find a new job. When you're talking about job descriptions and benefits and you specifically want parental leave, you look for that, you ask for that, you negotiate that, and if they won't offer that, you walk away from the table.

Seriously, how difficult is this to comprehend? You don't need expanded government, increased taxes, and wealth redistribution to take charge of your own life and make things happen.



You think any C level jobs would hire women and offer maternity leave if they didn't have to?

Why allow businesses to operate as jerks in an economy at all when you can just have a simple employment standard that they must offer it?

How is it difficult to comprehend that without regulation, employers do what's profitable, not necessarily what's right? Why allow employers to be the gatekeepers that decide whether you get healthcare or maternity/paternity leave when it can simply be required and provided to all?

Increased taxes? Canada's healthcare systems cost a fraction to administer per capita as America's, and everyone is covered.


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10 Apr 2021, 6:24 am

Fnord wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Fnord wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Because they believe it's OK to have people lose their homes or go bankrupt for medical expenses.  I guess it's in the Constitution or something.  It's probably considered a human right to starve to death or die on the street if you can't pay a doctor.  I've never understood the lack of dignity afforded to Americans.
It is not in the Constitution, but neither is it prohibited by the Constitution.

While the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is guaranteed by the Constitution, the acquisition of these things is not -- it is like having a driver's license and not being guaranteed to own a car.

Then there is also the admonition delivered by the apostle Paul to the Thessalonians (1st Thess. 3:10): "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."  This has become fundamental (there's that word again) to the underlying beliefs of conservative Americans who also believe that poverty is a personal choice, rather than a societal imposition.  Nations that have become more secular seem to have largely abandoned this belief.
Yeah, can't forget the religious nonsense that drives the U.S. to spit on its workers.
That religious nonsense inspires many religious people to believe that it is their fundamental (that word keeps popping up, doesn't it?) right and privilege to treat others as lesser beings just for being somehow different.

Pretty much. Remember when Jesus called a woman a dog just because she was a Samaritan?


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NoClearMind53
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12 Apr 2021, 6:57 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Because the U.S. lags behind pretty much all other developed nations in taking care of their citizens.

It's the same with universal healthcare, and a minimum wage that one can actually live on.

We also have a legislative system where the minority opinion is almost always successful in getting their way if their only goal is to stop progress. Things don't improve until there's a 70% supermajority of support, and even then the courts try to stop it. Even FDR had trouble and he was massively popular. I think the difference is these days the wealthy have gotten far more skilled at pushing subtle propaganda. That and things aren't as horrific as they were back then. There will have to be a lot more suffering before real change can happen. If the population growth flatlines the regressive funding scheme for SS will no longer work and the right will use that as an excuse to destroy it. I think population growth being necessary for the system to function is pretty backwards as the world doesn't really need more and more people. It's only the very very rich who really benefit from population growth and eventually they don't even benefit.



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12 Apr 2021, 6:59 pm

Our population will never "flatline"----because of extensive immigration into our country.



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12 Apr 2021, 7:03 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
How is it difficult to comprehend that without regulation, employers do what's profitable, not necessarily what's right? Why allow employers to be the gatekeepers that decide whether you get healthcare or maternity/paternity leave when it can simply be required and provided to all?

It's even worse than that. Without regulation businesses have to be a cheap as possible to compete. It takes one bad actor to spoil the rest. Everyone likes to single out the worst people, like Jeff Bezos, but the problem isn't specific to any individual CEO. Every single one of them will do whatever they can to cut costs. Having rules is the only thing that can stop them. That or unions, but the US decided to destroy unions now that the baby boomers are on the way out. Talk about pulling the ladder up behind you!



Last edited by NoClearMind53 on 12 Apr 2021, 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NoClearMind53
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12 Apr 2021, 7:15 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Our population will never "flatline"----because of extensive immigration into our country.

Immigration in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but it has certainly fueled Trumpism. Immigrant birthrates will eventually fall too though. It's insanity that we need constant population growth. I'm beginning to think nothing in this world is rational at all and we are headed for something really nasty as a species.



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12 Apr 2021, 11:16 pm

NoClearMind53 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
How is it difficult to comprehend that without regulation, employers do what's profitable, not necessarily what's right? Why allow employers to be the gatekeepers that decide whether you get healthcare or maternity/paternity leave when it can simply be required and provided to all?

It's even worse than that. Without regulation businesses have to be a cheap as possible to compete. It takes one bad actor to spoil the rest. Everyone likes to single out the worst people, like Jeff Bezos, but the problem isn't specific to any individual CEO. Every single one of them will do whatever they can to cut costs. Having rules is the only thing that can stop them. That or unions, but the US decided to destroy unions now that the baby boomers are on the way out. Talk about pulling the ladder up behind you!


I read an article or two saying that the USA is about to see the biggest labour movement it's seen in a generation as huge sectors of the economy begin to organize & unionize. Especially order fulfilment places like Amazon, delivery services, Uber drivers and other gig economy workers etc -> all the major businesses that have been abusing people by underpaying them for their labour.

Could happen. 8)


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16 Apr 2021, 10:53 am

goldfish21 wrote:
NoClearMind53 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
How is it difficult to comprehend that without regulation, employers do what's profitable, not necessarily what's right? Why allow employers to be the gatekeepers that decide whether you get healthcare or maternity/paternity leave when it can simply be required and provided to all?

It's even worse than that. Without regulation businesses have to be a cheap as possible to compete. It takes one bad actor to spoil the rest. Everyone likes to single out the worst people, like Jeff Bezos, but the problem isn't specific to any individual CEO. Every single one of them will do whatever they can to cut costs. Having rules is the only thing that can stop them. That or unions, but the US decided to destroy unions now that the baby boomers are on the way out. Talk about pulling the ladder up behind you!


I read an article or two saying that the USA is about to see the biggest labour movement it's seen in a generation as huge sectors of the economy begin to organize & unionize. Especially order fulfilment places like Amazon, delivery services, Uber drivers and other gig economy workers etc -> all the major businesses that have been abusing people by underpaying them for their labour.

Could happen. 8)

The mountains in Mexico are quite beautiful. Let the employees have the companies. Let the unions take over completely. Get CEO's and dedicated employees to buy land in Mexico, move there, open new businesses, and see what happens in the USA when unions have no creative ideas to leech.



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16 Apr 2021, 12:23 pm





Just the Fact that Trump
Was Elected At all Proves
The United States HaS A Disease

of Lack of Empathy in Scarcity

And IS Basically

Out of Order

With Trump

As the Sign

On The Door

Of How Horrible

The Societal Disorder

Of the United States IS BECOME NOW
And Of Course It Doesn't Help that Old
Desert Tribal Religion Based on Support
For Tribal Wars Is Here Ready to Support
Trump or Whoever the Next DeSantis Is in the

2024 Election for the Party that Lacks Empathy
And Parasites Off the Scarcity of Citizens Living

In Whatever Scarcity Exists Per All Socio-Economic
Disparities of 'Trump Life' Still Now As the So-Called

'New Roman Empire' Continues ITS Fall under the Weight
of the Ignorance of Its Citizens And Irrational Beliefs That
Are Corporately Supported Too With Everything For Sell For Soul...

What's the Answer for Anyone with Common Sense coming up these
Days Move to Canada; Yet it sure Does Get Cold Living in the Freezer

When Paradise

Is Down

Here,

Where Ironically

All Three Devils of Florida

Matt Gaetz, Trump, And DeSantis Men

Breed More of Their Lack Of Empathy

For Humanity's Soul As A Pound of Flesh

Is Just another Dollar Bill to Them to Metaphor

in Harming, Raping, Maiming, And Killing Whatever Gets the

Devil's Due Next; Just a Lack of Humanity Spells the New US A Way...

Yet You See It's Easy to Rule Machines As Long as Humans Continue to

Evolve As the Tools They Use More AS Humanity As Target Practice For

Audiences Continuing to Breed And Nurture Machines A New Way

Other than that

Duh... Humans

Develop Empathy

Most in Formative

Years of Development

Of Attachment to Mother's

Breast Not Unlike Monkeys if

They Are Separated They Don't

Thrive in Connections Of Love As Much That

Make A Glue of Life Work or Basically Disintegrate

In Some way the Rest of Their Life; You Wanna Save the

Country Attach that Baby Back to Mother's Breast, Whatever it Takes;

Yep Move to Canada And Be Cold If You Have to Where Perhaps Humanity

Will Breed more Human....

Other than

That i was Born

In '60 And Conceived Before

'The Pill' Starting Off With Mama

At Home And If There is Any Secret of REAL

Success it's that Early Attachment to Breast

And only The Resilience that Breast of Love

Brings Both to Find Trust in Existence Not Only

Surviving by Competing Yet Thriving Through Cooperation

And Yeah Baby Retiring by Age 47 As You May Place More Value

Within Than on External Goods You Purchase As Soul Will Never Be For Sell....

It's Not A Question of

Whether Or Not

to Attach

Child Back

to Breast It's

An Answer if Human

Is Even Gonna Be Human in the

Future or Machine Attached to Plastic Bottles

And Becoming the Plastic Bottles As Long as they Last....

Oh That Plastic Thingie; Humans Decided to Dominate Nature

And There is Another 'Little Issue'; Yes, US That God Is Nature We Are Part

of Nature, God's Real Face; Yet Just A Pimple That Larger Nature is Currently

Popping and

Slowly

Yet

Surely

Ridding itself Of

Flushing the Imbalance

Out as If We Think We Master

Nature See What's Already Come
And Coming NoW in Trump Flavors of Living Death...

Ultimately Leading to Less Humans And Problems for Nature

The Real 'Lady' In Charge....

Does Anything i Said

Matter, Hell No

Nature is

Doing Her

Job to Get S
BacK in Balance as i SPeaK hehe..

It IS what IT IS Fix IT or Go Even Broker...

Anyway i Have an 'Empire' (Nature) of Love to take care of with SMiLes...

And i Dam Sure Ain't Married to THiS iGNoRaNT Way of Life Worshipping Dead Green Anymore...

It's True Money Is No Different Than 'SoYLeNT Green' We Are Just Eating The Face of God Nature Yes Us Now...

Ignorance

Is Rather

Slow to

Break or

Repair

IT SELF

Chances

Are 'the Boat'

Won't Totally

Sink or Float 'till i go away...

i Don't Have Any Children except

For the Rest of the Human God Nature to Suffer Next...

Shall i Care What Happens Next; Yes, i WiLL Nurtured by Mother's Breast...

It Makes

All the

Difference

In Living or Dying Death....

You/We/Us Don't Pay That Love Due

Respect, Piper of Nature is Playing Another Tune Next...

This is Just So Much An Issue of Duh Common Sense Go

Figure Forest Face Palm Thick Humans And Their Lack of Feeling Common

Sense.... (Lack of Empathy Sinking The Ship) As Love Dies So Does Human...

Not Much FoR Me

to Do Yet

Watch

Birds and

Bees and FLoWeRS

Thrive WHeRE i Continue to Thrive SaMe...

Yawn 'Pass the Popcorn' 'Eve' Don't Worry

About Washing Any 'Clothes'....

Gone

Back

to
Nature

i'm Free
Sure i Master the

Tool Too And i Wilt Never Now
Be Slave or Servant to ToolS AGAiN
As Plastic Bottle Machine.... Just All
Soylent Green Dead Inside then

Now
Is Different

And That Past

Doesn't Exist for Me... Now...
Wild Naked Loving Free Fur And

Wings Enough to Float On Terrestrial

Land Dance Sing as Mountains of Love Fly THiS Way....:)



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