Why does the United States not have mandated paid maternity

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AngelRho
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26 Apr 2021, 10:01 am

aghogday wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
aghogday wrote:
^

It's Not Likely You Had
to Drink Out Of A Separate

Water Fountain; Not Be Allowed

Downstairs At The Theater;

And As 'Early' As The 80's

Be in the Military And

Warned Not To

Go to the

North Part of the

County After Dark if

You Are African American

No, this much is true.

But being denied housing assistance? We became homeless because we were white. We had to figure out how to keep ourselves and our two children safe. A government program could have helped us, but they turned us away and put us at risk because of our skin color.

We choose not to dwell on that part of our lives. We don't blame black people as a whole. We don't begrudge others help when they need it regardless of skin color. But at the same time, don't buy into the lie that discriminatory practices don't target and marginalize white people. It does happen, and we know this firsthand.




You'll find folks Doing Illegal Things Now And Then as You Relate Someone Doing You

Wrong; Yet This is Very Rare Indeed And Not even close to the Kind of Systematic Racism Others Face...

Other Than That Considering You Had to Use 'Welfare' Yourself Until You Pulled Yourself up to a different place...

Why in the 'World'

Wouldn't you

Wanna Afford

A Home of A Mother

To A Child that is Not Yours

In Terms of Government Provided

Assistance in Paid Maternity Leave;

The Same Way You Got A Hand Up too;

Honestly Man, It has nothing to Do With 'Christianity' at Least

This Attitude of Not Serving Others In need besides ourselves....

It's Common Among 'Christians' And Part of Why i May Not Even
Go Back to Visit Church As it Personally Disgusts me Along with
All The Brown Nosing of Trump And Ignorance Over Requiring
Masks in Mass in A Deadly Pandemic; i Can't Imagine Any 'Real Christian'
Who Pays any Credence to the Beatitudes Not Wanting to Provide A Mother to Raise A Child....

And Yeah Several Years Back We Had a Deacon Preach About Single Mothers Not Fit to Raise Children...

i Put A Stop to Him Ever Saying That Again When the Head Priest Listened to me; And Now He's Become A 'Trump Fool'....

Just my View at Least...



Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.



goldfish21
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26 Apr 2021, 10:25 am

AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.

Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.


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aghogday
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26 Apr 2021, 12:49 pm

AngelRho wrote:
aghogday wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
aghogday wrote:
^

It's Not Likely You Had
to Drink Out Of A Separate

Water Fountain; Not Be Allowed

Downstairs At The Theater;

And As 'Early' As The 80's

Be in the Military And

Warned Not To

Go to the

North Part of the

County After Dark if

You Are African American

No, this much is true.

But being denied housing assistance? We became homeless because we were white. We had to figure out how to keep ourselves and our two children safe. A government program could have helped us, but they turned us away and put us at risk because of our skin color.

We choose not to dwell on that part of our lives. We don't blame black people as a whole. We don't begrudge others help when they need it regardless of skin color. But at the same time, don't buy into the lie that discriminatory practices don't target and marginalize white people. It does happen, and we know this firsthand.




You'll find folks Doing Illegal Things Now And Then as You Relate Someone Doing You

Wrong; Yet This is Very Rare Indeed And Not even close to the Kind of Systematic Racism Others Face...

Other Than That Considering You Had to Use 'Welfare' Yourself Until You Pulled Yourself up to a different place...

Why in the 'World'

Wouldn't you

Wanna Afford

A Home of A Mother

To A Child that is Not Yours

In Terms of Government Provided

Assistance in Paid Maternity Leave;

The Same Way You Got A Hand Up too;

Honestly Man, It has nothing to Do With 'Christianity' at Least

This Attitude of Not Serving Others In need besides ourselves....

It's Common Among 'Christians' And Part of Why i May Not Even
Go Back to Visit Church As it Personally Disgusts me Along with
All The Brown Nosing of Trump And Ignorance Over Requiring
Masks in Mass in A Deadly Pandemic; i Can't Imagine Any 'Real Christian'
Who Pays any Credence to the Beatitudes Not Wanting to Provide A Mother to Raise A Child....

And Yeah Several Years Back We Had a Deacon Preach About Single Mothers Not Fit to Raise Children...

i Put A Stop to Him Ever Saying That Again When the Head Priest Listened to me; And Now He's Become A 'Trump Fool'....

Just my View at Least...



Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.







My God i'm Glad

i Don't LiVE iN This

Human Zoo That You

Have Become Part And

Parcel oF iT Seems

The 'Animal

Farm'

i Am No Longer

A Part of as Mother's

And Children's Love
May Be Slaughtered For Profit

As Far As i Will See That's HeLL ON EartH

TotAlly MiSSinG Anything Colored oF A Real JeSuS Even If He Was Ever Real

For It's True You Are Expressing A Same 'Materialistic Version of Heaven'

'The Story' Warned

About at least...

As Trying

To Be Some
Kind of Illusionary
Version of Most Separated From All

So The Nightmare Humans Create Continues

This 'Twilight Zone' Where Two People Standing

Next to Each Other Or in Words May Be Living

in Hell And Heaven Now

Just Spirit Flying

Over

Observing

FlesH And Blood...

i Must Say Thank

You As You Surely Muse

Some Poetry Out of What

i Personally See As Darkest Human Places

Unwittingly of Course it Seems As You

May Travel Further Lower Higher

Than This one Day i VieW AS Hope

As Yeah Baby i Used to LiVE iN A Valley

That Pretended to BE A Mountain too...

Never Realizing Then

Both Are SaMe Height...

It's Like the Old 'Jeffersons'

TV Series 'Moving On Up to

'The East Side' When They Never

Moved At All STiLL oN A 'West Side' Opaque...

In Other Words, i Am Presented A Soul View, Not A Business View';

Obviously, Since i'm Financially Independent, The Business View

Has Little Relative Value to me Now; Yet Sure, i Still See Your Struggles too...

Sure, i Lived In An Endless Day of Darkness Where Business Was All About Life too...

From My View

NoW iT's

Horrible

And Hell

Before iT Was
ANoTHeR View AS Heaven Now

i 'Owned' Sadly Far From Free Then i 'See' NoW



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KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

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AngelRho
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26 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.

Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.

Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.



goldfish21
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26 Apr 2021, 10:07 pm

AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.

Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.

Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.


Unheard of anywhere else, either.. because it doesn't work.

Another problem is people assuming regulations = not abuse. No. $7.25/hr minimum wage is government sanctioned abuse.


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AngelRho
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27 Apr 2021, 4:42 am

goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.

Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.

Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.


Unheard of anywhere else, either.. because it doesn't work.

Another problem is people assuming regulations = not abuse. No. $7.25/hr minimum wage is government sanctioned abuse.

It’s never been tried. How would anybody now living know whether it would work or not?

Min wage is a joke. When a min wage is set, the cost of goods/service goes up. Businesses are aware that min wage laborers have more money, so they charge more to recover what they lose to min wage. That ultimately devalues currency. Scarcity of money increases its value and purchasing power. Min wage doesn’t really make life better for anyone. Drop min wage, let businesses charge what they want for products. If businesses overcharge and people can’t afford things, businesses go bankrupt, and that will drive prices down to levels people can pay.

I think people should earn based on what they produce unless their time is what’s actually being paid for. You think everyone who works at McDonald’s ACTUALLY works? The whole time?



kraftiekortie
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27 Apr 2021, 8:23 am

Actually, I believe people who work at McDonald's work pretty hard their whole shift. And they make crap money.



Fireblossom
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27 Apr 2021, 9:28 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Actually, I believe people who work at McDonald's work pretty hard their whole shift. And they make crap money.


Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, of course they have breaks, but aside from that, people working with fast food tend to have their hands full. Sure, not every hour is a rush hour and some time of the day has less customers than others, but during those moments the workers do other stuff, like cleaning etc. plus there are usually less people working outside of rush hour, so they do have work.



goldfish21
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27 Apr 2021, 11:12 am

AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.

Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.

Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.


Unheard of anywhere else, either.. because it doesn't work.

Another problem is people assuming regulations = not abuse. No. $7.25/hr minimum wage is government sanctioned abuse.

It’s never been tried. How would anybody now living know whether it would work or not?

Min wage is a joke. When a min wage is set, the cost of goods/service goes up. Businesses are aware that min wage laborers have more money, so they charge more to recover what they lose to min wage. That ultimately devalues currency. Scarcity of money increases its value and purchasing power. Min wage doesn’t really make life better for anyone. Drop min wage, let businesses charge what they want for products. If businesses overcharge and people can’t afford things, businesses go bankrupt, and that will drive prices down to levels people can pay.

I think people should earn based on what they produce unless their time is what’s actually being paid for. You think everyone who works at McDonald’s ACTUALLY works? The whole time?


More brainwashing. Not a high enough % of the labour force earn minimum wage for an increase in minimum wage to increase the price of everything. This has been proven time and time again. Billionaires love it when people like you believe myths like this and help keep all wages low by protesting against the lowest paid people earning a penny more.


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AngelRho
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27 Apr 2021, 11:25 am

Fireblossom wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Actually, I believe people who work at McDonald's work pretty hard their whole shift. And they make crap money.


Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, of course they have breaks, but aside from that, people working with fast food tend to have their hands full. Sure, not every hour is a rush hour and some time of the day has less customers than others, but during those moments the workers do other stuff, like cleaning etc. plus there are usually less people working outside of rush hour, so they do have work.

To be fair, there's a wide variation in quality among McDonald's restaurants depending on what region it's in. The one I worked in was fairly decent MOST of the time. There were different (unwritten) rules depending on which manager was there and whether the franchise owner was on site. I was trained by one of the owners on how to clean and sanitize dishes, which when done right took some time. As soon as the owner would leave, one of the managers, and it was always the same one, would come back, take me off dish duty, and have me do something else. There was one or two others and half of everyone else working there who had terrible attitudes, and there were a couple guys I went to high school with who...just shouldn't have been trusted to serve any kind of food item.

But any time I've hit McDonald's north of Memphis and Nashville there's a completely different, positive attitude, and I've never had a problem with an order.

I think you really have to think about, I mean...in any good establishment, even fast food, unless you have to go on break you shouldn't ever stand still. After the lunch rush you have plenty of time to wipe down/sanitize tables, clean the restrooms, sweep the floor, empty grease traps, etc. The best ones I've been in I've noticed a lot of activity even when there weren't so many customers. Where I live, I don't really see that happening. It's more people standing around waiting for someone to tell them to do something. It makes sense to pay by the hour when there's work. But if that's not the case, then they should be paid by the items sold. If you KNEW your customer was giving you your paycheck, you'd be more motivated to reward your customer. In many places, fast food lacks a sense of gratitude among servers. Min wage seems to me largely ineffective when it comes to instilling such a sense of gratitude.

This is, in an accidental sort of way, exactly what I'm talking about. A min wage mandate carries with it the burden of knowing you are the lowest paid employee, the least valued. It doesn't matter if you're getting paid min wage or a living wage, it's all the same thing. It could be a billion dollars and still not be good enough because you still have to deal with being the least valued employee. A parental leave mandate cheapens the perk of having a company willingly offer it. If the company doesn't want you or value you, why do you want to work for them so bad? They HAVE to give you a certain entitlement and it's subsidized through the federal government. There's nothing special about it, and the nature of that means no matter what you get out of work, you'll never be satisfied with it. You might be thrilled to have parental leave, but then you'll start to ask, "Wait, I'm not a parent. Why should they get special treatment because they can have a baby but I can't? Shouldn't I deserve the same amount of time off at some point?" And what about couples who cannot have children of their own and can't afford adoption? Or don't have any other options? That's not fair to them. Shouldn't they have up to a year of time off? In fact...why should anyone even bother showing up to work at all? You get paid parental leave when you have children, you get paid for extended leave when you can't have children because it's only fair, so why not just everyone have a job they don't show up for? You get paid regardless, and you can claim any reason you want to not work.

But if a company believes that parenthood is special and valuable, they can support parental leave on their own and give employees the incentive both to have children AND to continue working afterwards. If someone says, "well, I can't have children, so it's not fair," someone can remind them to be grateful that they have a job at all. And if they stay loyal to the company, perhaps retiring a year early with a sizable pension might be in order. None of that matters if you have to force a company to do the right thing. You get better results if individuals act under objective, moral pressure rather than government force or people who don't have anything better to do than make up silly rules you have to follow. It all gets silly after a while.



aghogday
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27 Apr 2021, 12:40 pm

AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Because it isn’t the same thing. We’re not talking about fairness of existing programs. We’re talking about whether it is wise to force a practice on a business that isn’t in the best interests of either the business (including employees) or consumers. If a business can CHOOSE to offer those kinds of benefits because care for employees makes it profitable, then employees know they are valued by that business, plus it’s indicative that the business is forward looking, innovative, and adaptive. So employees can CHOOSE whether to work at a business that offers those kinds of things or not for whatever reasons. Forcing a business to do the right thing is only going to breed resentment, and that usually means that the same business will make other bad decisions or manifest abuse of employees in other ways. People should WANT to do productive work and employers should WANT, i.e. take pleasure in, rewarding their employees. Making the right thing a punishment rather than a reward is not going to help improve things. And if the public understands taxpayer money is used to pay people to do nothing, there might be some negative blowback from that.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

The rest of the developed first world has figured out that without regulation businesses will abuse citizens' labour. In places like China and the USA it's on purpose - the system isn't failing - it's been designed to benefit businesses, whether owned by the state like in China, or privately like in the USA, it's a system that's been created for the advantage of the employer. It works particularly well when the worker bees argue FOR their abuse as the wage slaves they are.

Meanwhile, in Canada, and most other places that are considered developed nations, we don't allow such slavery practices. Not quite. It's no labour utopia here, but at least people aren't screwed over 1/5th as bad as they are in the USA.

Businesses have always been regulated and it was government policies that allowed businesses to abuse workers. And every time the government tries to fix its mistakes by piling on more regulation, businesses are forced to find new ways of operating that often introduces entirely new and different ways of abusing workers. Here’s an idea: maybe TRY removing regulations and take people to task for criminal behavior when abusive behavior causes harm to workers and others, such as with environmental problems caused by carelessness. You can run your business any way you like, but you cannot hurt your workers, neither purposefully nor through negligence, and the company takes responsibility for any injury not caused by the worker himself. And set whatever wages, vacation time, even parental leave, according to their own preferences or not offering any perks with the understanding that a company might use that to sway workers into leaving. Let competition, not government, sort out what companies offer in terms of benefits and wages. This is unheard of in American history.


Unheard of anywhere else, either.. because it doesn't work.

Another problem is people assuming regulations = not abuse. No. $7.25/hr minimum wage is government sanctioned abuse.

It’s never been tried. How would anybody now living know whether it would work or not?

Min wage is a joke. When a min wage is set, the cost of goods/service goes up. Businesses are aware that min wage laborers have more money, so they charge more to recover what they lose to min wage. That ultimately devalues currency. Scarcity of money increases its value and purchasing power. Min wage doesn’t really make life better for anyone. Drop min wage, let businesses charge what they want for products. If businesses overcharge and people can’t afford things, businesses go bankrupt, and that will drive prices down to levels people can pay.

I think people should earn based on what they produce unless their time is what’s actually being paid for. You think everyone who works at McDonald’s ACTUALLY works? The whole time?







Hehe, Let's Drag Out And Drag On An Old Folk Song For This Reply
When i Dance Sing 'We', i Speak of Both Left And Right Brain Metaphor

For Intelligence...

What's Really A Joke is the ISM And Religion of Capital

Making Buying And Selling 'Goods' the God of Life

Rather Than Foraging Giving And Sharing Freely

Hehe Again With Least Harm

That Humans are Evolved

Still To Do In Close to Naked

Mostly Homogenous Looking Acting

Groups of 150 to 200 People With

Common Binds and Bonds of 'Totems';

Yes, Symbols of Culture Holy And Sacred

Feeling This Togetherness in Society

Living In Enough Abundance Now

of Balance to Survive and Thrive

In The Drum Beats Of An All Close

To Naked Rave Twilight to Evening Dance Feeling Moon

And Stars Within ToGeTHeR Never Ever Feeling Lone Allone

Freshly Recovering Invigorating For A New Sunrise Forage...

True Before Covid-19, i Also Found A Place to Do This Fully too..

Living In A Forest With No Loans Very Little to Buy And Consume...

True A Dance Hall With People Young Enough Still Living Breathing

Free Spirit of Ancestors Helps too...

Soon Enough That Part Will

Come Again Been Doing

It Solo Masked in

Public Stores

Since then Still

Get Elbow

Bump

Loving

Hugs Now and Then;

Yet Back to the

Village Every

Child Attached

To Breast And Raised

By the Whole Village Even

The Thought of Child Separated

From Breast During A Day Feeling

Like the Worst Sin Possible to Do AS Human...

Ahem,

Do You

Know/Feel/Sense WHere

You Are Living Now Yet?

i Surely Will Still Relate if You Can And or Will Not....

You Know What, i Started Off Making Three Dollars And Sixty Nine
Cents In 1984, Serving Rental Shoes Across A Counter At A Military
Bowling Center; Hehe Most Definitely LoWesT Ladder Rung of Federal Service...

And Sure That Was After 3 Degrees All About Humanity; Health Science, Social

Sciences Interdisciplinary, And Anthropology Growing Up in an Old Shot-Gun

Century Old Home Nearly Worthless my Grandmother Owned Then Down-Town

On The River; What i Become Soon Enough is the Leaf of the Tree Before i Could Speak

At age 4, Looking Across that River to Forest Already Realizing That i Am That Leaf of That Tree

That Feeds This Tree That Falls to Soils Dead to Feed Dead Seeds Creating New Souls of Living Trees;

Now of course That Was Before i could Speak; i will Only Be Able to Relate The Feel And Sense of Being

All That is God

Within

me Well
After i Am

Able to Speak And

Put it into Words; Yet i will
Tell You This; i am no ISM, Now i am

The SaME ALL i AM Before God And So Are You;

Basically A MeSSaGE of JeSuS iN A Nut Shell; Dead Seed Leaf of Living Tree Still Now...

The ISM of Capital Made Me Money Rich As i Had Greater Love To Spend Than Buy things...

Dead

Things;

Dead Things

Like New Cars

Every Three Years...

Dead Things Like Bigger

Homes Every Seven Years;

And What Usually Happens

To Folks Who Love Their Four

Wheel Drives, Hunting, And Fishing

Just For the Sport of Killing 'Things'

More Than Their Wives; 3 Or 4 Wives

in Divorce; And 3 or 4 Sets of Children to

Support And A Huge Boat and Camper in

The Back Yard; The American Dream They Never

Get A Chance to Use or a Yacht in a Harbor That only

Serves A Yearly Garden Party in a Boat With Potted Plants;

The So Called

Modern

American

Capitalism Dream; The Grand Illusion

That Truly For Most Folks Is Just A Sell of Soul

For Anything Resembling Naked LoVE iN A Free
Dance and Song Free Of All the Chains oF Lies Becoming 'Things'; Yes The Tools We Create; Clothes We Wear

Becoming Us; So What has this American Dream Really Produced; Shells on A Lovely Beach With Very Little

'Sea Life'....

Lovism

Is My only

F in Naked

Dance And Song

ToGeTHeR Religion...

You Know, You Feel, You Sense

Or Do You, The One Promoted By

A Little Brown Man Like Puff the Magic Dragon

From 'Galilee'; Here's a Little Secret, The Story is Real

When You Become

'The Dragon'...

If You
Leave

Out the

Secret Magic

Ingredient of

Love You've Lost

The Religion; the Lovism....

i Used to Be the Dragon Now i Am the MaGiC....

When i Retired Early, My Father Whose 'Rationality' And
'Idea' About What is So Great About Being An American
Is Capitalism And The Goal of Getting Rich Was So Worried

That i Might

Need Some

Of His Resources

To Survive As He Retired

At Full Pay And Social Security

Benefits From A Law Enforcement

Career of 46 Years; Yet, His Life-Long Dream

of Becoming Rich Like My Uncle With A Dream

Home on Shalimar Point Bay Emerald Gulf Coast

Paradise on Earth; And Haha My Uncle Did it Selling Frigging

Vacuum Cleaners Starting at Sears; True i have Amazing Capitalists

in My Family Too Who Are Very Trump Supporting And Very Racist too...

Hating Homosexuals, Transgenders, And Other Differences in Humanity Like
That too Just Totally Opposite Of What Jesus If Actually Real By Story Will Do...

Thing is i Don't
Have to Have
A House in Paradise

As Puff the Magic Dragon

Has it All That's Possible Within

Love the Pure Agape Beyond All Distance
Time, Space And Matter; Even Quantum Mechanics Agrees With My Reality True...

Anyway, i Gently Broke The 'Good News' My Father Most Wanted to Be Surprised to

Hear as i Gave Him the Dollar Amount of His Idea of Riches in Life 6 Times More than

He Saved Close to His Dying Age of 81, Back on May 22nd of 2014, When i Early Retired

in 2008 At age 47... He Was Flabbergasted, i achieved His Dream When All He Ever Saw

me As was

A Minimum

Wage Employee

Who Totally Wasted

My Capital of ISM In Potential

In Stellar Measure of Only Standard IQ...

You Know, All Those Degrees That weren't Money MaKinG...

He Asked Me How In The World Did i Do It; i Tried to Be Gentle, Otherwise

Now Telling Him; Well Dear Old Dad i Didn't Move into a New Home Every

Seven Years, i Didn't Remarry 4 Times And even Twice to the Same Woman,

Never Learning Enough Emotional Intelligence For A Marriage to Thrive And

True i Lost Everything That Means Anything Of Life to me Doing it in the Same Dam

Job Working for the Federal Government in Golden Handcuffs For All of What A Lifelong

Retirement is Worth in Benefits of Health and Life Insurance too; Yes i Lost The Spirit of Love

The Part

i Was Rich

In From the Start

When You Told Mama

That If She Didn't Get A Job

You Were Gonna Leave As You

Found Someone For A While Who

Did Have A Good Job to Bring in Some Money...

You Waited to Leave Mama Until Age 3; Give You

Credit For That; All She Ever Wanted to Do Was Stay

At Home And Nourish Her Children With Love; i Got those

Best Three Years of Love Starting Attached to Breast Day and Night;

that Much You contributed to Family Life Dear Old Dad... And You Know

What Daddy

All These

So Called

Riches in the Bank;

Now All the Promise

of Golden Handcuffs

Of Retirement House

All Paid Off; Car All Paid

Off This Is what i will Tell Him

Today As i Will; The Only Virtue That Makes

Life Worth Living is Lovism; The Rest of it Can Stay in Hell in the Bank...

i'm Sure One Day When i'm Long Gone My Wife Will Still be Taken Care of...

For You

See that

is the only

Reason i Saved the Money...

She Still Has Trouble Understanding

What That means too Yet That's Okay

She Didn't Have the Mother You Found for me...

'Thanks Daddy..

You Found

The Greatest

Gift of All to Give me Mama...'

It's Worth Noting That Real Puff the MaGiC
Dragon Is Mama; She Still Breathes in my Love

Passing Away Back on 2.22.2017 Going
to Her Death Bed Appropriately

Then On Valentine's Day Not
Expected Then As Her Brain
Was Bleeding From Stage Four

Brain Cancer Starting at Breast

Moving Through Bone Cancer

All She Ever Complained of

For Two Years Was Arthritis

Did it with no more than

A Bayer Aspirin Beating

my Sister in Scrabble Even

With Brain Cancer Days Then
Before Her Death Bed; Yet It's

True Still Her Undying Love For

Her Children Still Enough to Kill

Pain And A Heart The Doctor

Said Was So Strong Even With

350 Cholesterol Count Never

Treated; the Only Reason She

Lasted 8 Days With No Food

Or Drink; For You See Love Is

What Truly Makes a HeART Strong

And Provides the Energy For

A Dude Turning 61 on 6.6.21

Still Leg Pressing Up to 1520

Pounds More Than Any Elite

Military Dude At the Military

Gym on That Machine that still

Provides The Strength it takes

To Dance in Public For 14,808

Miles in 92 Months; Only To

Bring Smiles to Other Folks;

Whether They Understand

i am A 'Wittiest Fool' or Not;

i Don't Take Kindly to Folks Who
Detach Babies From Mama's Breast....

It Almost Rages me to 'Turning Money

Tables Over' With Fiery Breath Still Now;

Yet On the Other Hand (The Right Mind)

Thankfully i am STiLL A MaGiC Dragon Who

Will Love

An Enemy

As The Same

FRiEnD oF LOVE (Real God)

Only 'Real Fools' Are Waiting

For (Godot) 'Jesus' to Return Only Those Who Are Not

Willing to DO THE REAL 'Puff A MaGiC DRaGoN' Work OF LOVE NOW And 'Believe'

That Reciting Old Words Out oF AN Old BooK MaKinG That Book God Is All It Takes...

THere is No

Other 'Reason'

For Now i Can And Will Find Now That

Explains Your Current 'Business Resolution' of 'This Loving Issue'..

Yet Still Of Course, Very Up Close And Personal, i STiLL Get WHere You Are Coming From...

It's

Simply

Fascinating;

It's The Human

Condition; It is What it is...

In Every BLaCK Abyss Shade And Color Folks

Dream Up Beyond Rainbows too And Bring to Fruition Now...

Being Human May Not Always Be Fun; Yet It Damned Sure is An Interesting Story...

It's Almost Like Some of Us Are Living On Earth So Differently In the Same Places...

These Shells Of

FlesH And Blood;

Obviously

All Of Us Are...

Again, the Human Condition...

More Specifically, GenerAlly, Overall,

Paradox of 'God Condition' Different Yet Whole too..:)



_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


goldfish21
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27 Apr 2021, 1:35 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Actually, I believe people who work at McDonald's work pretty hard their whole shift. And they make crap money.


Exactly what I was thinking. I mean, of course they have breaks, but aside from that, people working with fast food tend to have their hands full. Sure, not every hour is a rush hour and some time of the day has less customers than others, but during those moments the workers do other stuff, like cleaning etc. plus there are usually less people working outside of rush hour, so they do have work.

To be fair, there's a wide variation in quality among McDonald's restaurants depending on what region it's in. The one I worked in was fairly decent MOST of the time. There were different (unwritten) rules depending on which manager was there and whether the franchise owner was on site. I was trained by one of the owners on how to clean and sanitize dishes, which when done right took some time. As soon as the owner would leave, one of the managers, and it was always the same one, would come back, take me off dish duty, and have me do something else. There was one or two others and half of everyone else working there who had terrible attitudes, and there were a couple guys I went to high school with who...just shouldn't have been trusted to serve any kind of food item.

But any time I've hit McDonald's north of Memphis and Nashville there's a completely different, positive attitude, and I've never had a problem with an order.

I think you really have to think about, I mean...in any good establishment, even fast food, unless you have to go on break you shouldn't ever stand still. After the lunch rush you have plenty of time to wipe down/sanitize tables, clean the restrooms, sweep the floor, empty grease traps, etc. The best ones I've been in I've noticed a lot of activity even when there weren't so many customers. Where I live, I don't really see that happening. It's more people standing around waiting for someone to tell them to do something. It makes sense to pay by the hour when there's work. But if that's not the case, then they should be paid by the items sold. If you KNEW your customer was giving you your paycheck, you'd be more motivated to reward your customer. In many places, fast food lacks a sense of gratitude among servers. Min wage seems to me largely ineffective when it comes to instilling such a sense of gratitude.

This is, in an accidental sort of way, exactly what I'm talking about. A min wage mandate carries with it the burden of knowing you are the lowest paid employee, the least valued. It doesn't matter if you're getting paid min wage or a living wage, it's all the same thing. It could be a billion dollars and still not be good enough because you still have to deal with being the least valued employee. A parental leave mandate cheapens the perk of having a company willingly offer it. If the company doesn't want you or value you, why do you want to work for them so bad? They HAVE to give you a certain entitlement and it's subsidized through the federal government. There's nothing special about it, and the nature of that means no matter what you get out of work, you'll never be satisfied with it. You might be thrilled to have parental leave, but then you'll start to ask, "Wait, I'm not a parent. Why should they get special treatment because they can have a baby but I can't? Shouldn't I deserve the same amount of time off at some point?" And what about couples who cannot have children of their own and can't afford adoption? Or don't have any other options? That's not fair to them. Shouldn't they have up to a year of time off? In fact...why should anyone even bother showing up to work at all? You get paid parental leave when you have children, you get paid for extended leave when you can't have children because it's only fair, so why not just everyone have a job they don't show up for? You get paid regardless, and you can claim any reason you want to not work.

But if a company believes that parenthood is special and valuable, they can support parental leave on their own and give employees the incentive both to have children AND to continue working afterwards. If someone says, "well, I can't have children, so it's not fair," someone can remind them to be grateful that they have a job at all. And if they stay loyal to the company, perhaps retiring a year early with a sizable pension might be in order. None of that matters if you have to force a company to do the right thing. You get better results if individuals act under objective, moral pressure rather than government force or people who don't have anything better to do than make up silly rules you have to follow. It all gets silly after a while.


Fast food workers who have solid work ethics & are proactive at keeping busy doing things of value move on to bigger better things and higher pay. There's a reason people in minimum wage jobs aren't typically the highest performing workers - but that doesn't mean they shouldn't earn enough for their labour to survive.

So then it's up to corporations who can afford to have kids or not? :? :roll: Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.


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27 Apr 2021, 3:31 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
So then it's up to corporations who can afford to have kids or not? :? :roll: Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.

More straw man. If you're going to respond to me, respond to what I ACTUALLY said.



goldfish21
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28 Apr 2021, 11:01 pm

AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
So then it's up to corporations who can afford to have kids or not? :? :roll: Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.

More straw man. If you're going to respond to me, respond to what I ACTUALLY said.


Yeah, I did.

I think it's stupid to leave it up to a select handful of highly profitable corporations who Want to offer benefits to their employees, meaning that only those who work for them can easily afford to have children and everyone else has to struggle unnecessarily should they decide to start a family. That's just wrong.


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magz
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29 Apr 2021, 3:07 am

I'm reading a very interesting article tackling the topic of anti-trust laws in the US, how they evolved since being first established and how more recent formulations are currently abused.

Quote:
When Congress passed the Sherman Act in 1890, Senator John Sherman called it "a bill of rights, a charter of liberty," and stressed its importance in political terms. On the floor of the Senate he declared,

If we will not endure a king as a political power, we should not endure a king over the production, transportation, and sale of any of the necessities of life. If we would not submit to an emperor, we should not submit to an autocrat of trade, with power to prevent competition and to fix the price of any commodity.

In other words, what was at stake in keeping markets open - and keeping them free from industrial monarchs - was freedom.
I have a feeling that there is a lot of propaganda of freedom but exactly the risk the lawmakers from 1890 spotted has materialised.


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01 May 2021, 9:13 am

goldfish21 wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
So then it's up to corporations who can afford to have kids or not? :? :roll: Ridiculous thinking not really worth refuting tbh.

More straw man. If you're going to respond to me, respond to what I ACTUALLY said.


Yeah, I did.

I think it's stupid to leave it up to a select handful of highly profitable corporations who Want to offer benefits to their employees, meaning that only those who work for them can easily afford to have children and everyone else has to struggle unnecessarily should they decide to start a family. That's just wrong.

Non sequitur. You’re making the false assumption that “everyone has to struggle.” It’s logically possible that people can start their own business, offer superior benefits, and attract employees, forcing big business to keep up and adapt. No single corporation ever has that much of a grip on your daily life. Amazon, for instance, has more than significantly challenged Walmart, and I remember a time not two decades ago when all I heard was how evil Walmart was. Now the talk is how evil Amazon is. And the day will come when someone else challenges Amazon. And let’s not forget all the DIY’ers, the stay-at-home moms (and dads) who supplement family income with crafts and the rare MLM’s that are actually GOOD. Everyone wins when the Individual with ideas is king—when YOU are the monarch of your own life, when the CEO is the monarch over HIS life, and the consumer is monarch over HIS life.

We ALL have the ability to live like kings. The last 5 years we may have had limited income, but I was creatively free and we had all we needed. It was only when the school and church I worked for restricted my creative freedom and limited my ability to advance in my responsibilities that I chose to leave. That’s what reasonable people do. We realize that ultimately we are all SELF employed and can move around looking for the best deal. My new job alone pays more than last year’s day job for BOTH my wife and I, AND I’ve got a lead on another possible piano gig that would put me up past the level of last year’s church gig. If my wife’s business takes off, that could be a HUGE moneymaker. I’m trying to convince her to make Tiffany lampshades, which, you know, even knockoffs command a pretty high price (It’s actually the lamp bases that are so expensive).

Who’s stopping us? Walmart? Amazon? What about Hobby Lobby since they’re the only stained glass supplier here? No, we had Delphi Glass ship a couple crates of bulk glass. After slaving away for a week grinding down picture frames, we decided we were done and ordered some tools to cut straight lines. We’re watching YouTube videos, connecting with other artists. I’m using a vector graphics app to design new patterns. We have people asking about our website which is as yet non-existent. The only people standing in our way are ourselves.

Same with my music biz. I have to focus on what’s making money right now, which is my school, church, and comping gigs. I have my first wedding at my new location lined up for late June. I need to start a band and line up some more solo gigs, but there’s no rush, no one getting in my way. I have more competition here, yes, but I’m not just any ordinary pianist. I do things differently and insist on a more contemporary, free, and open sound, and I don’t let brides or their mothers control my creative decisions when I play weddings. You hire me because you like what I do and want what I have to offer. If you want stale, old-fashioned, recycled, cookie-cutter trash, there are PLENTY pianists in the area you can hire. But there is only one Rho, and there will always only BE one Rho. I’ve even met some of my competition, and guess what? I know who to call whenever I need a sub for a gig when I can’t make it. I can work things out with competitors and COOPERATE if I ever get spread too thin, and I don’t have to worry about what could happen if someone likes my sub better than me. First of all, they’re not better. Second, even if they were, I have no insecurities and accept that people who hire me can just as easily fire me if they can find a better deal. That’s all part of it and what motivates us to keep our game always on point.

I’m not simply bragging about how great things are for me. I’m saying no one owns us or has that much control over us. Don’t like big corps? Don’t buy from Amazon or Walmart. Or Microsoft or Apple. I prefer an Apple computer, but we have two Raspberry Pi’s running Linux. There has been an entire community of creatives, makers, DIYers customizing and prototyping, and neither Microsoft nor Apple can stop them. If you can’t find attractive work prospects, create your own and control your own schedule. No one offers parental leave? Be the first. Create a business that values and fosters families. Some bigger businesses have begun operating in-house daycares as a perk to keep employees from having to spend half their paycheck on childcare. In fact...the way I got back into teaching was reaching an agreement with the school that my 3yo would be with me in my classroom. No baby, no dice. When my youngest was old enough for school and we could afford pre-k, my high school kids started asking where he was and why he didn’t come to my band class anymore. See? You need a specific perk, you just ask.

You already have the right to do that. Why do you have to have the force of government to get your way? It amounts to, as I see it, jealousy of creative people who become wealthy through creative, productive work. You’re jealous of those who have commanded and earned such a high level of autonomy. You have a desire to bully them, and the government offers a means by which you can hold intelligent people hostage from doing what they love. Why do you need the government for that? All you have to do is give your talent and ability to another company that treats you better and desires you enough to offer perks like parental leave and even in-house childcare. As a consumer, you possess the strength of personal wealth that you can control, affecting which businesses make more profit and which businesses will fail. You can take action simply by buying things or not to bankrupt corporations. You don’t need government for that.

But if you allow or insist that government regulates businesses, you fundamentally take that power away from workers and consumers. The US auto industry has been irreparably damaged because through the actions of unions and government, the big three automakers were declared “too big to fail” and bailed out. There was a grand opportunity for brilliant designers and factory workers to strike out on their own, develop new technologies, and push the envelope in style, luxury, fuel economy, safety, utility, etc., and WE BLEW IT. Don’t get me started on why the hell are we still dependent on the effing internal combustion engine??? We had the opportunity to revolutionize personal transportation, and we lost it to greed. I will never get over my fury over that until we have workable, affordable, flying cars that don’t require fossil fuels. I want a warp engine, damnit, and won’t be happy until I get it. But that’s what these backwards-thinking bastards have us stuck with. Your insistence on pushing an agenda through government force is what’s keeping us from having and doing better.