"Anti Racism" controversy getting ugly in Virginia

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ASPartOfMe
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10 Jun 2021, 7:55 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
"Anti-racism" (or "reverse racism") is only the opposite of "racism" in the same way that "-1" is the opposite of "1". It is not a default (neutral) position, but rather an identical force being applied in the opposite direction to that which it is claimed to be preventing.

The opposite of "racism" is not "anti-racism" or "reverse racism" (which are merely a form of "racism" for which the holder of those views sees as desireable), but simply "no racism" (or "not racist"). Look at what MLK and his supporters were fighting for in their battle against racism - Was it that people would be judged on the colour of their skin (or race), or that this would not be a consideration when judging others? How does placing emphasis on a person's race (for "good" or "bad" reasons) help bring his dream any closer to reality?

If the wokes do take full control MLK would be canceled both for popularizing colorblindness and his alleged private life.


I think it would be more likely that the right, playing tit-for-tat with the woke crowd, who'd argue that King should be judged by the same standards, in order to erase him.


On what do you base that assumption?

It may have escaped your attention, but "judging people by their own standards" would (excluding the theoretical potential for hypocracy on his part) be the "right" treating him as he desired all people to be treated - From what I am aware, he wasn't the type of person the present day "woke" mob consist of, where "race" is the sole characteristic around which the treatment of a person would be considered, with words\actions about others being "appropriate"\"inappropriate" based on that person's race, so wouldn't be held to the same standards as a "woke" person would.


The far right has been trying to demonize King from the very beginning, they fought against the King holiday, and still try defaming him. Too many people - the left, the center, the sane right - know he wasn't a perfect human being, but still honor his status as America secular saint who fought to redeem the country of racism.

The right despised MLK for decades, then decided they were always his biggest fans all along once he became vindicated by history.

It helped that they realized they could use MLK's rhetoric to undermine future civil rights advocates. They act like they're ignoring MLK's words by not being non-violent enough or act like they're making a big deal out of things that arent that important bc they don't associate those issues with MLK. do modern conservatives actually think that MLK didn't speak out against police brutality? Income inequality? Capitalism? American interventionism? The romanticizing of slaveholders and the Confederacy?

This all of course ignores that conservatives (and most Americans at the time in general) scoffed at MLK suggesting he supported non-violence any time civil rights protests descended into riots. Sound familiar? The rhetoric never changes.

Colour-blindness as a concept was hijacked by the right. Colour-blindness just became a buzzword conservatives could toss out there so they could ignore the fact that race creates serious issues for hundreds of millions of people. They act like they're fighting racism by burying their heads in the sand and acting like racism doesn't affect anyone, and that they can't possibly be racist if they don't think they're racist.

Don't worry, in about 30-40 years I guarantee you conservatives will act like they supported BLM all along--because that's what they do when they lose these battles. Without exception.

I don’t think it I will be alive in 30 or 40 years but with woke winning at rate similar to a hot knife going thru butter I can envision BLM seeming like the good old days. Sitting in my nursing home room the oldies station playing clips from “White Fragility” saying now that was real woke, and these ungrateful kids will never get it. Hey stranger things have happened.


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10 Jun 2021, 8:56 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Yeah that is cool, but when that argument made about other flawed historical figures that did great things, those making that argument are assumed to be racists and said historical figure is canceled anyway.


Which historical figure has been cancelled? Jefferson still hasn't been and his legacy is terrible. Johnson and Jackson haven't been and they're at least as bad.

Why Are Statues Of Abolitionists Being Torn Down As Well?

Kate Smith was a famous singer in part because her version of God Bless America became a second national anthem of sorts which made Nazis in America prior to WWII none to happy because the song was written by a Jew. During the war she raised far more money for the troops then any other entertainer. She did more for anti fascism then Antifa can even imagine. Josephine Baker was a black singer who was being blacklisted because she refused to play to segregated audiences in the early 1950s. Kate Smith let her preform on her TV show. That is being anti racist.

In 1969 the Philadelphia Flyers sucked, this being in the anti Viet war era the fans were apathetic during the national anthem even continuing their conversations. The Flyers owner to spice things up played her version of “God Bless America”. The team won most of their games when “God Bless America” was played and even two Stanley Cups. The Flyers put up a statue of her by their arena and continued to play a recorded version of that song. After 9/11 the New York Yankees stated playing that song. A couple of years ago an offense archivists unearthed two songs she sung in the early 1930s "That's Why Darkies Were Born" and "Pickaninnies' Heaven" and informed the Yankees about it who promptly stopped playing the song. The Flyers stopped playing that song and tore down that statue. Interestingly Paul Robeson also preformed “That’s Why Darkies Were Born” . But Kate Smith was a southerner, there you go.

Now a very valid case could be made that “God Bless America” should not be used as a rallying cry for your favorite team. But that was not even a consideration in the cancellation.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 10 Jun 2021, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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10 Jun 2021, 8:58 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Yeah that is cool, but when that argument made about other flawed historical figures that did great things, those making that argument are assumed to be racists and said historical figure is canceled anyway.


Which historical figure has been cancelled? Jefferson still hasn't been and his legacy is terrible. Johnson and Jackson haven't been and they're at least as bad.

Why Are Statues Of Abolitionists Being Torn Down As Well?

Kate Smith was a famous singer in part because her version of God Bless America became a second national anthem of sorts which made Nazis in America prior to WWII none to happy because the song was written by a Jew. During the war she raised far more money for the troops then any other entertainer. She did more for anti fascism then Antifa can even imagine. Josephine Baker was a black singer who was being blacklisted because she refused to play to segregated audiences in the early 1950s. Kate Smith let her preform on her TV show. That is being anti racist.

In 1969 the Philadelphia Flyers sucked, this being in the anti Viet war era the fans were apathetic during the national anthem even continuing their conversations. The Flyers owner to spice things up played her version of “God Bless America”. The team won most of their games “God Bless America” and even two Stanley Cups. The Flyers put up a statue of her by their arena snd continued to play a record version of that song. After 9/11 the New York Yankees stated playing that song. A couple of years ago an offense archivists unearthed two songs she sung in the early 1930s "That's Why Darkies Were Born" and "Pickaninnies' Heaven" and informed the Yankees about it who promptly stopped playing the song. The Flyers stopped playing that song and tore down that statue. Interestingly Paul Robeson also preformed “That’s Why Darkies Were Born” . But Kate Smith was a southerner, there you go.

Now a very valid case could be made that “God Bless America” should not be used as a rallying cry for your favorite team. But that was not even a consideration in the cancellation.


She wasn't removed from the historic record, they simply chose to use another song. It was bound to happen eventually and that's not a bad reason to make the change. I figured you'd have something more significant than a sports team changing a song they use.


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10 Jun 2021, 9:48 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Yeah that is cool, but when that argument made about other flawed historical figures that did great things, those making that argument are assumed to be racists and said historical figure is canceled anyway.


Which historical figure has been cancelled? Jefferson still hasn't been and his legacy is terrible. Johnson and Jackson haven't been and they're at least as bad.

Why Are Statues Of Abolitionists Being Torn Down As Well?

Kate Smith was a famous singer in part because her version of God Bless America became a second national anthem of sorts which made Nazis in America prior to WWII none to happy because the song was written by a Jew. During the war she raised far more money for the troops then any other entertainer. She did more for anti fascism then Antifa can even imagine. Josephine Baker was a black singer who was being blacklisted because she refused to play to segregated audiences in the early 1950s. Kate Smith let her preform on her TV show. That is being anti racist.

In 1969 the Philadelphia Flyers sucked, this being in the anti Viet war era the fans were apathetic during the national anthem even continuing their conversations. The Flyers owner to spice things up played her version of “God Bless America”. The team won most of their games “God Bless America” and even two Stanley Cups. The Flyers put up a statue of her by their arena snd continued to play a record version of that song. After 9/11 the New York Yankees stated playing that song. A couple of years ago an offense archivists unearthed two songs she sung in the early 1930s "That's Why Darkies Were Born" and "Pickaninnies' Heaven" and informed the Yankees about it who promptly stopped playing the song. The Flyers stopped playing that song and tore down that statue. Interestingly Paul Robeson also preformed “That’s Why Darkies Were Born” . But Kate Smith was a southerner, there you go.

Now a very valid case could be made that “God Bless America” should not be used as a rallying cry for your favorite team. But that was not even a consideration in the cancellation.


She wasn't removed from the historic record, they simply chose to use another song. It was bound to happen eventually and that's not a bad reason to make the change. I figured you'd have something more significant than a sports team changing a song they use.

I was under the impression that cancellation is not full elimination of a person from memory but attempting to do that by firing people, tearing down statues, or like in this case banning their work.

Banning the work of an artist who did so much to fight bigotry because of two songs she preformed as a young singer and especially as a women in 1932 when she had no control over her career is a horrific reason, worse then let’s say leading a rebellion against your country to defend slavery.

Their was a that mural in a Philadelphia High School that depicted the founding fathers and their slaves that was taken down even after it was pointed out that the artist was a communist and then painting was a protest.

I can spend all night going through my and other posts of egregious cancellations. They are examples of what anti racism training and the Critical Race Theories it comes out of which is on topic for the thread. Specifically that people and their actions should be defined primarily by their racism, anything bigoted a person did means that they are a racist and probably they are too ignorant too realize it due to their white privilege


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10 Jun 2021, 10:19 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Yeah that is cool, but when that argument made about other flawed historical figures that did great things, those making that argument are assumed to be racists and said historical figure is canceled anyway.


Which historical figure has been cancelled? Jefferson still hasn't been and his legacy is terrible. Johnson and Jackson haven't been and they're at least as bad.

Why Are Statues Of Abolitionists Being Torn Down As Well?

Kate Smith was a famous singer in part because her version of God Bless America became a second national anthem of sorts which made Nazis in America prior to WWII none to happy because the song was written by a Jew. During the war she raised far more money for the troops then any other entertainer. She did more for anti fascism then Antifa can even imagine. Josephine Baker was a black singer who was being blacklisted because she refused to play to segregated audiences in the early 1950s. Kate Smith let her preform on her TV show. That is being anti racist.

In 1969 the Philadelphia Flyers sucked, this being in the anti Viet war era the fans were apathetic during the national anthem even continuing their conversations. The Flyers owner to spice things up played her version of “God Bless America”. The team won most of their games “God Bless America” and even two Stanley Cups. The Flyers put up a statue of her by their arena snd continued to play a record version of that song. After 9/11 the New York Yankees stated playing that song. A couple of years ago an offense archivists unearthed two songs she sung in the early 1930s "That's Why Darkies Were Born" and "Pickaninnies' Heaven" and informed the Yankees about it who promptly stopped playing the song. The Flyers stopped playing that song and tore down that statue. Interestingly Paul Robeson also preformed “That’s Why Darkies Were Born” . But Kate Smith was a southerner, there you go.

Now a very valid case could be made that “God Bless America” should not be used as a rallying cry for your favorite team. But that was not even a consideration in the cancellation.


She wasn't removed from the historic record, they simply chose to use another song. It was bound to happen eventually and that's not a bad reason to make the change. I figured you'd have something more significant than a sports team changing a song they use.

I was under the impression that cancellation is not full elimination of a person from memory but attempting to do that by firing people, tearing down statues, or like in this case banning their work.

Banning the work of an artist who did so much to fight bigotry because of two songs she preformed as a young singer and especially as a women in 1932 when she had no control over her career is a horrific reason, worse then let’s say leading a rebellion against your country to defend slavery.

Their was a that mural in a Philadelphia High School that depicted the founding fathers and their slaves that was taken down even after it was pointed out that the artist was a communist and then painting was a protest.

I can spend all night going through my and other posts of egregious cancellations. They are examples of what anti racism training and the Critical Race Theories it comes out of which is on topic for the thread. Specifically that people and their actions should be defined primarily by their racism, anything bigoted a person did means that they are a racist and probably they are too ignorant too realize it due to their white privilege


The thing is they'll be really trivial things like this where some organization cringes away from association with someone after it's revealed they did something socially unacceptable and that's nothing new and not the result of wokeness or CRT or anything of the sort. It's something that's occurred for ages and the only thing that's changed is how the window has shifted.

Among things, it doesn't really matter who painted the mural and what it represented to the artist, if it's poorly received the entity that commissioned it is entitled to take it down. I'd be pretty disappointed if it was a piece of my art, it would probably sting personally, but ultimately it would be within whoever commissioned it's rights to do so.

As for the Flyers and the song, it wasn't the greatest reason to stop using it a complex discussion certainly would be interesting but also be beside the point. They're entitled to change their usage for any reason including none at all. It had a long run but it was bound to be replaced eventually.


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10 Jun 2021, 11:05 pm

I'm curious why Republican activists feel the need to working with local white parents, including a former Trump administration spokesman, to recall six Democratic Loudoun County school board members, at least some of whom joined the 600-member anti-racist Facebook group. Since when do politicians get involved in education curriculum.

As a parent, the last person I would listen to is a Trump activist on what's best for my child.

These parents probably hate the idea of black kids in their school more than the education of their kids.

Perhaps they should pool their money together (they have plenty of that) and start some type of "confederate" school or homeschool their kids rather than threaten POC and inclusionary white parents.



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11 Jun 2021, 12:55 am

cyberdad wrote:
Perhaps they should pool their money together (they have plenty of that) and start some type of "confederate" school or homeschool their kids rather than threaten POC and inclusionary white parents.


I wouldn't assume that they don't also private school or home school their kids.
But I'm pretty cynical about these matters, so you know, I definitely might be wrong.


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11 Jun 2021, 1:52 am

No wild guesses required about who is pushing obnoxious racist parents to get vocal about CRT



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11 Jun 2021, 2:01 am

Are we talking about this Loudon County?

Quote:
A Virginia county's fierce debate over teaching children controversial critical race theory escalated this week at a school board meeting where a mother who survived the purge in Maoist China condemned what she called an effort to turn classrooms into 'indoctrination camps'.

Xi Van Fleet, who fled China at the age of 26 before settling in the United States, told members of the Loudoun County School Board that she is 'very alarmed' by the teaching of CRT, which she says 'trains children to be social justice warriors and to loathe their country and their history.'

'This is indeed the American version of the Chinese Cultural Revolution,' Van Fleet declared, referring to the Mao Zedong-led purge that left between 500,000 and 20 million people dead from 1966 to 1976. She was six years old when the revolution started.

'Critical Race Theory has its roots in cultural Marxism. It should have no place in our school.'

'The Communist regime used the same critical theory to divide people. The only difference is they used class instead of race,' she stated, adding that CRT was 'neo-racist'.

'We were taught to denounce our heritage, and Red Guards destroyed anything that is not communist…statues, books and anything else. We were also encouraged to report on each other, just like the Student Equity Ambassador program and the bias reporting system,' Van Fleet added, referring to new initiatives set up in Loudoun County public schools.

'I felt like it's such a free country, meaning I have free access to all sorts of information – books on both sides of the issues,' she stated.

However, now, Van Fleet says she feels that some of that freedom is being taken away, saying:' I can't really just say what I mean, even though the other side can say whatever,. To me, and to a lot of Chinese, it is heartbreaking that we escaped communism and now we experience communism here.'

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9672569/Virginia-mom-survived-Maoist-Chinas-purge-slams-Critical-Race-Theory.html

Then again, no doubt this was just another of those "obnoxious racist parents" being "pushed" into getting vocal about CRT...


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11 Jun 2021, 2:19 am

Brictoria wrote:
Are we talking about this Loudon County?
Quote:
A Virginia county's fierce debate over teaching children controversial critical race theory escalated this week at a school board meeting where a mother who survived the purge in Maoist China condemned what she called an effort to turn classrooms into 'indoctrination camps'.

Xi Van Fleet, who fled China at the age of 26 before settling in the United States, told members of the Loudoun County School Board that she is 'very alarmed' by the teaching of CRT, which she says 'trains children to be social justice warriors and to loathe their country and their history.'

'This is indeed the American version of the Chinese Cultural Revolution,' Van Fleet declared, referring to the Mao Zedong-led purge that left between 500,000 and 20 million people dead from 1966 to 1976. She was six years old when the revolution started.

'Critical Race Theory has its roots in cultural Marxism. It should have no place in our school.'

'The Communist regime used the same critical theory to divide people. The only difference is they used class instead of race,' she stated, adding that CRT was 'neo-racist'.

'We were taught to denounce our heritage, and Red Guards destroyed anything that is not communist…statues, books and anything else. We were also encouraged to report on each other, just like the Student Equity Ambassador program and the bias reporting system,' Van Fleet added, referring to new initiatives set up in Loudoun County public schools.

'I felt like it's such a free country, meaning I have free access to all sorts of information – books on both sides of the issues,' she stated.

However, now, Van Fleet says she feels that some of that freedom is being taken away, saying:' I can't really just say what I mean, even though the other side can say whatever,. To me, and to a lot of Chinese, it is heartbreaking that we escaped communism and now we experience communism here.'

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9672569/Virginia-mom-survived-Maoist-Chinas-purge-slams-Critical-Race-Theory.html

Then again, no doubt this was just another of those "obnoxious racist parents" being "pushed" into getting vocal about CRT...


You just quoted the Daily Mail.

All credibility lost.


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11 Jun 2021, 2:28 am

cyberdad wrote:
No wild guesses required about who is pushing obnoxious racist parents to get vocal about CRT



I couldn't even stand to listen to her finish her blithering idiocy.
And no, the founders DID NOT believe rights came from God - that was just the way people spoke back in those days. The founders for the most part were very secular in their political and social outlook. The notion that they were fundamentalist Christians is an ahistorical absurdity.


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11 Jun 2021, 2:40 am

Brictoria wrote:
However, now, Van Fleet says she feels that some of that freedom is being taken away, saying:' I can't really just say what I mean, even though the other side can say whatever,. To me, and to a lot of Chinese, it is heartbreaking that we escaped communism and now we experience communism here.
Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9672569/Virginia-mom-survived-Maoist-Chinas-purge-slams-Critical-Race-Theory.html


Comparing CRT with Mao's cultural revolution is stretching the bounds of credibility longer than elastigirl from the incredibles.



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11 Jun 2021, 2:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
And no, the founders DID NOT believe rights came from God - that was just the way people spoke back in those days. The founders for the most part were very secular in their political and social outlook. The notion that they were fundamentalist Christians is an ahistorical absurdity.


I'm guessing these "activists" with affiliation to Trump and QAnon like her are banking on the fears of parents about marxism and communism



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11 Jun 2021, 3:08 am

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And no, the founders DID NOT believe rights came from God - that was just the way people spoke back in those days. The founders for the most part were very secular in their political and social outlook. The notion that they were fundamentalist Christians is an ahistorical absurdity.


I'm guessing these "activists" with affiliation to Trump and QAnon like her are banking on the fears of parents about marxism and communism


Most certainly they are!


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11 Jun 2021, 3:09 am

cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
However, now, Van Fleet says she feels that some of that freedom is being taken away, saying:' I can't really just say what I mean, even though the other side can say whatever,. To me, and to a lot of Chinese, it is heartbreaking that we escaped communism and now we experience communism here.
Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9672569/Virginia-mom-survived-Maoist-Chinas-purge-slams-Critical-Race-Theory.html


Comparing CRT with Mao's cultural revolution is stretching the bounds of credibility longer than elastigirl from the incredibles.


Who would be better placed to speak on the similarity between Mao's cultural revolution and CRT: some anonymous person making assertions who is unable to provide any evidence in support of those assertions at the time they made them, or a person with personal (first-hand) experience of both who points out the similarities based on their experience at the time of making their assertion?


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11 Jun 2021, 3:15 am

Brictoria wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Brictoria wrote:
However, now, Van Fleet says she feels that some of that freedom is being taken away, saying:' I can't really just say what I mean, even though the other side can say whatever,. To me, and to a lot of Chinese, it is heartbreaking that we escaped communism and now we experience communism here.
Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9672569/Virginia-mom-survived-Maoist-Chinas-purge-slams-Critical-Race-Theory.html


Comparing CRT with Mao's cultural revolution is stretching the bounds of credibility longer than elastigirl from the incredibles.


Who would be better placed to speak on the similarity between Mao's cultural revolution and CRT: some anonymous person making assertions who is unable to provide any evidence in support of those assertions at the time they made them, or a person with personal (first-hand) experience of both who points out the similarities based on their experience at the time of making their assertion?


Regardless of how this person had lived through the Cultural Revolution, the fact remains, there is absolutely nothing communistic about Critical Race Theory. That person is guilty of hyperbole.


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