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HacKING
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11 Jun 2021, 8:13 pm

The general consensus is that the deadliest sin is pride, but I disagree. This isn't really from a religious perspective despite my use of the word sin; pride seems to be generally maligned across the board in culture. I can see why, as it's associated with many negative behaviors but I'd argue it's also associated with many positive behaviors. Pride can be the motivator people need to pull themselves out of bad situations. Pride can motivate somebody to make positive changes in the world because they want to live up to something. There's a reason gay pride is a thing, because pride can lift people who have historically been oppressed. Pride can be healthy. I think part of the reason pride historically has been a maligned trait is that pride in oneself can often result in people questioning the established power *cough* catholic church *cough* because they believe they have ideas better than the authority. So they just dissed the trait entirely to disincentive dissent.

Another thing to consider is that people who are prideful typically want the rest of society to be as proud of them as they are of themselves, which promotes pro-social actions. Typically the people who commit the worst atrocities are far more ashamed of themselves than they are proud. These people may project false pride to hide that but the truth shines through in their actions. For instance mass shooters often end their own lives and exhibited insecurity and jealousy, hardly symptomatic of true pride in oneself.

I'd say that more destructive than pride is insecurity, envy, lust, and greed. The sociopath and psychopath, often considered the most destructive personalities, don't even have the capacity to even feel pride for themselves, they simply don't value anything except their id.

So, what do you think? Is pride the deadliest sin, or should that be re-evaluated?



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11 Jun 2021, 8:26 pm

I think biblical pride is more in line with narcissism than it is a healthy self esteem.

Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eze/28/1/s_830001

HacKING wrote:
I think part of the reason pride historically has been a maligned trait is that pride in oneself can often result in people questioning the established power *cough* catholic church *cough* because they believe they have ideas better than the authority. So they just dissed the trait entirely to disincentive dissent.


oh yes, this, but I don't think my ideas are better than the elites ideas, they just serve a different agenda.

To go against the accepted norms these days, esp in science, tends to make one appear narcissistic.



Last edited by The_Znof on 11 Jun 2021, 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HacKING
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11 Jun 2021, 8:32 pm

The_Znof wrote:
I think biblical pride is more in line with narcissism than it is a healthy self esteem.

Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/eze/28/1/s_830001


I think even narcissism can be healthy, but when it goes to extremes it can make people hurt others. Psychology seems to have conflicting ideas about narcissism; some people think it's false and just a front to hide internal insecurity and shame, others think it's genuine unreasonable and unchecked self love that isn't covering anything up. It's probably more case to case but I'd argue the former is probably a lot more dangerous than the latter though both can certainly be dangerous.



HacKING
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11 Jun 2021, 8:33 pm

The_Znof wrote:
HacKING wrote:
I think part of the reason pride historically has been a maligned trait is that pride in oneself can often result in people questioning the established power *cough* catholic church *cough* because they believe they have ideas better than the authority. So they just dissed the trait entirely to disincentive dissent.


oh yes, this, but I don't think my ideas are better than the elites ideas, they just serve a different agenda.


What agenda would you say they serve



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11 Jun 2021, 8:34 pm

eugenics/transhuman agenda



HacKING
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11 Jun 2021, 8:41 pm

The_Znof wrote:
eugenics/transhuman agenda

Transhuman as in like, using technology to push humanity past their current physical limit, kind of like ghost in the shell?



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11 Jun 2021, 8:49 pm

specifically consciousness uploading,

I call them doofus bots

The dark personality trait known as Machiavellianism predicts support for mind upload technology

Quote:
Many transhumanists are supporters and advocators for mind upload technology and this technology is being developed. Transhumanists have participated in ethical and philosophical discussions on the risks and potential down-sides of this technology. However, moral psychologists and experimental philosophers still have not picked up this baton or investigated what are the individual differences or cognitive processes (if any) that bring in support or resistance towards this technology.”


https://www.psypost.org/2021/06/the-dar ... logy-61025

While I am not fully anti-doofus bot, I would never let myself be uploaded into God knows what these Machiavellians have in store for me, and I would warn anybody considering it.



HacKING
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11 Jun 2021, 8:57 pm

The_Znof wrote:
specifically consciousness uploading,

I call them doofus bots

The dark personality trait known as Machiavellianism predicts support for mind upload technology

Quote:
Many transhumanists are supporters and advocators for mind upload technology and this technology is being developed. Transhumanists have participated in ethical and philosophical discussions on the risks and potential down-sides of this technology. However, moral psychologists and experimental philosophers still have not picked up this baton or investigated what are the individual differences or cognitive processes (if any) that bring in support or resistance towards this technology.”


https://www.psypost.org/2021/06/the-dar ... logy-61025

While I am not fully anti-doofus bot, I would never let myself be uploaded into God knows what these Machiavellians have in store for me, and I would warn anybody considering it.


Unfortunately for society, I don't think that's the only thing in society that predicts dark triad traits. I'd say positions of power do in general. Influencers, celebs, CEOs, especially politicians also tend to have these traits.



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11 Jun 2021, 9:17 pm

missed one

New study suggests that narcissistic business students thrive under narcissistic professors, while less narcissistic students suffer, to the detriment of all.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/201 ... -198226469



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11 Jun 2021, 10:09 pm

I'd put enriching uranium for improper uses and cross-breeding smallpox with ebola pretty high up there.


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HacKING
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11 Jun 2021, 10:49 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'd put enriching uranium for improper uses and cross-breeding smallpox with ebola pretty high up there.


Can't argue with that one.



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11 Jun 2021, 11:25 pm

You're approaching it from a very secular mindset. Pride is deadly because of what it does to your soul, not any negative effects on your temporal life. Pride is one of the things that can easily lead you to the unforgivable sin, embracing the material world over the spiritual one.


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12 Jun 2021, 12:01 am

Pride is a common reason people suicide/kill family members.

To avoid dealing with a loss of status.


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12 Jun 2021, 4:54 am

My understanding of pride being seen as the worst in the biblical sense is an expectation of being humble to god, that people have to be told that they can't know better than what the holy book does. And ironically super religious people get really prideful over how godly they are.

Sin is a super subjective thing anyway, what people might consider one can vary a lot by culture and person to person.


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12 Jun 2021, 9:26 am







iN Short: Ignorance iS A Deadliest Sin; To Go A Bit Longer, In Terms of 'ALLNoW',

Humans Through Their 'Advanced Cultures' Tend to Have 'Clothed Pride'

On the Other Hand, For Example, Lions Have Naked Pride; Tried And True

Instinctually, Intuitively, And Through Life Practices of Survive And Thrive

They Do The Do With No Bowing or Kneeling And They Surely Never Worry

About 'Homophobic Comments' As they Gracefully Traverse The Savanah As

Every Calorie Now Saved

in Graceful Balance

is A Lifeline to Eat...

Oh Lord Donald J Trump

(The God DAmmed MeMe)

Such An Example of Clothed

Pride Without All HIS Accessories

On 5th Avenue Just Standing their

Naked and Pudgy And Without An Ounce

of Empathy in Love To Give to Anyone Else

With True Compassion Who Is He More Than

Just 'A Tub of Lard', A Burger At the Fast Food Restaurants of Life...

True Clothed Pride Will Become Lost From Nature All That is Ignorance

Real in Existence At Core

Freedom of Enough

Whole

And

Complete

'The Lion' ACross the

Savannah Or Perhaps

'The Sheep' When They

Are Not Provided in Traps

For 'Wolves' to Easy Pick and Eat...

Yawn, Religion is A Political Device

Used to Keep 'Sheep' in Line; True Keep

'em Humble And Bowing; Keep the Voices

Low Never Roar from the Back Pew, 'WEAR A MASK!' IN MASS

GOD YES WHEN IT COMES TO REAL LOVE GARMENTS IN A FRIGGING

DEADLY PANDEMIC! True i have Pride Enough God Yes; Yes, Self-Love

Enough, And Love For the Rest of 'The Congregation'. i am No 'Timid Soul',

i have no Fear to Stand Tall And Make the Point Clear i AM NO SHEEP;

Goat,

i am

Surefooted

Who Does Not

Bow or Kneel to

Human Ignorance

That Harms, Rapes, Maims

And Kills at the 10:30 AM Mass

Where Masks Were only A Clothed

Option in a Deadly Pandemic, With All

The Veils oF iGnorance Clothed As False Truth;

Guess What Life is A Struggle And No Place to Bow and Kneel

WHere it Takes A Lion to Stand Tall And Overcome the Struggles in Life to Survive;

By the Way, 'Lion Kings' in the Wild Aren't Nice, They Eat Cubs, They Are Natural Born Killers

And that is Part of Nature and God the Same; False Pride is Suggesting God is All Good True

God is Love too; Yet True God is Also The Lion Who Eats Cubs too; So True That Old Psalm

of Dashing

The Child's

Head of the Opposing

Tribe Against A Stone

Is Life in the 'Big Lion Human Cities' too...

Out of Balance of Abundance Where Love Rules...

Lionesses Cooperate Most For Survival; Lions Just Bring

Home the Meat

And Reproduce....

Both

Serve

A Purpose

For Basic Survival of Course...

i Do Not Kneel At Church; i Do Not go to

Confession; And i Go Up to Get the Little 'Peace

of Bread' Just for a Little Exercise in Church and

Sure to Get closer to Sing With Spirit to the Congregation

Up Front... Yawn... My Voice Is Powerful Enough to Be Heard

From The Back Row Anyway Hehe... i Never Give Any Money at

The Offering; in Fact, i have Empty Pockets; i never Give Money to Anyone;

i Gave/Give it all to my Wife... Just An Inconvenience That Takes My Mind off of Giving

Soul to the World

In Poetry Dance

And Song Free

Now

True

Riches

Are of Soul

And The Body Holds

THiS HeART This Spirit

of Love True The Only Temple

of God i Own; Nothing Is Our Own

Truly Our Own; Yet This Naked Breath We Breathe

Standing Tall Or Kneeling And Bowing To Lesser God's

Than What Breathes Within Giving of Soul Heart Spirit is

Enough if not

The Rest of

It Already

Went to Hell With me...

Does This Temple of God

Kneel and Bend to Story Book

Characters; no, i am No Myth. i am

Human God Nature DarK Thru LiGHT All That Is

And As Far as Science Goes and Uploading Human

Consciousness For So Called Pride And Clothed Narcissism

An Oxymoron At Most As Science Has No Clue How Consciousness
Actually Works Far From Ever Understanding An Ever Changing Feeling Sensing Reality Now

And Also Even As Frigging Science Shows, Scientists Are More Often 'Rich' in Systemizing

Skills And Poor of What Comprises Social Empathic Artistic Human Intelligences Of Spirit HeART And Soul

YES IN REAL FLESH AND BLOOD;

True, If Ya Wanna

Upload Science,

Use A Text Book;

If Ya Wanna Upload Soul

WRITE A MoonLight Sonata...

Jesus F in Christ it's Already Been

Done For Real in So Many Forms of

Art Where Soul of the Creator Still Breathes in Art...

Yet It's True Moonlight Sonata's Already Been Done FOR REAL SO

i'll Do 'Frednata' Just my "SonG oF mY SoUL" Standing Tall Alone allone...

Birthing
New

Ever

Changing

Words of Song
And Steps of Dance
Holy and Sacred The

Old Bible is Small and

Antiquated the New Bible

of Human Soul of the Entire World

Has Already Been Uploaded And Is Continually

Uploading Now if Ya Wanna See it i Suggest A Google Search FOR ALLNoW...

Lions Don't Bow and

Kneel And Neither

Do i And True

i also Conserve Every

Energy And Focus For Chi
Flow Every Step ACross the
Savannah, Forest, And Concrete Jungle Same...

Naked or

Clothed,

Makes

ZERO DIFFERENCE....
ENOUGH WHOLE
COMPLETE

STANDING TALL
ENOUGH ALLONE

HEHE and true i
Ain't Afraid to Dance or Sing 'Here i am'...

As JustT A Parody of the Truth We aRe Nature

We aRE ALL God Those Who Use THeir Potential Standing Tall More often

Thrive; Yet AS Human Without Empathy, Compassion Loving All We Fall Divided...

More often too...

Nothing is

'Your' Own

Yet Your Naked

Breath; Someone Else's

Song or Mine Makes No Difference

All; WHere Is THere to Stand TaLLeR

Or LoWeR When We aRE ALL; No WHere
Yet Now Center Point Balance of Existence

For Real (God)

NoW

Mountain Low
Valley High Makes
No Yes Zero 'Real' Difference;

Some Folks Get Deeper Metaphors
Of the Old Bible; Yet the Reality is it is

A 'Rorschach Test' Every Part of

Reality Is We Co-Create God Now

Or PreTenD An Old TradeMarK Version Lives

In A Millstone At The Bottom of an Ocean Never Changing

Or A Man On A Cross Who Never Comes Down to Earth to Live Again

True A Metaphor For Most All Folks Still Sitting As StoneS iN Pews StagnanTOld

'Sheep' Easy PicKinG For Wolves/Popes/Priests/Pastors/Politicians/Philosophers All

Some Folks Come to Epiphany That Every Priest/Pastor/Politician/Philosopher/US

IS A 'Clothed Wizard of Oz';

Then They Or

Others Strip

Those

Clothes

Off and Return

to Nature God Freer....

True Such a Simple And

Elegant Solution Even

Provided Still in the Older Newer

Gospel of Thomas Verse 37; Just take 'IT' 'ALL' off
Set Yourself Free Standing Naked And Tall as God Is Low

Valley Mountain TaLL... Clue, Hint: ALL

"Naked God Pride Breathing All Now"(6)

See What i Just Did; All Those Words to Come Up With '6 Perfect Words'

And This iS How 'God' Continues to Evolve All Of US Now 'The Story'

Never Ending

Always

Starting

NoW(1)

"JusT
ANoTHeR 'IBis'"(3)
NoW Naked God Pride Breathing All Now



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Udinaas
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12 Jun 2021, 10:20 am

I haven't noticed any consensus on this even among the ultra-religious.