The absurdity of Christianity

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AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 9:31 pm

dorkseid wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

dorkseid wrote:

Take any of the aforementioned passages and show them to any educated person who does not know they're from the Bible, and they would tell you they are all factually inaccurate. That's just the reality of the matter. There is no bias here.

Scientific models change as new information is discovered. Fair enough. But I'm confident that we've mastered counting below ten and fully understand the difference between the number 4 and the number 6. The passage clearly describes animals that have wings and four legs. Give me an example of such an animal. Go ahead! I'm waiting.

And you still haven't addressed the Bible saying that rabbit have split hoofs, bats are birds, or the earth not moving.

Explain to me how any context makes violently dashing children against stone okay. Even if this was retribution for the Babylonian persecution of the Hebrews, you cannot justify that children deserved this. Other translations of Psalms 137 use the word blessed in place of happy. In the Bible blessings can only be awarded by God and are always good. God did not carry through on his threats because the Babylonians bent the knee and submitted to his demands. There are plenty of other examples in the Bible in which God had no problem carrying out full-scale genocide against those who didn't fully submit to his tyranny. And you didn't address the other passages I quoted.

Besides, wasn't the point you were trying to make about the sanctity of life? Can you at least try to be a little consistent?

Just admit it, man: you're desperately grasping at straws.

Apologists always make these arguments, and they get eaten up by Christians desperate to rationalize away all the inconvenient facts about the Bible. But no person who was not already a Christian has ever been swayed by such arguments.

If you were having a similar discussion with a Muslim desperate to rationalize away all the errors in the Quran, you'd see how absurd and pathetic these desperate rationalizations actually are.

In other words, the truth or falsehood of something is relative to how it can be removed from context and intent and made to mean whatever we want it to to suit us. Got it. You have a strong dislike for intellectual honesty.

How about just pick ONE point? I sufficiently debunked two of your supposed Bible difficulties without even waiting for you to suggest something. I was ok with that. But if we're moving on to something else and you honestly want an answer, then let's focus on one "problem" at a time. It would help you if you dropped your bias for starters. But using intimidating language is inappropriate and doesn't magically make you right. If you are compelled to attempt to overwhelm someone, there's little that can actually be said. Tone things down a notch and pick a focus. I'll be much more willing to debunk whatever out-of-context nonsense you come up with at that point.

It's also interesting how removing scripture from context to express ideas that are not the intent of the writer or God fits the strawman argument pattern. Of course we understand things like genocide to be evil. Where does Jesus command Christians to go forth and slay all the unbelievers?

You didn't debunk anything. I already responded to your alleged rebuttals and demonstrated why they fail.

You want to pick just one subject? Okay, you can pick factual inaccuracies in the Bible or violence against children in the Bible. But you will have to actually give a convincing response. Something neither you or any apologist I'm aware of has ever accomplished.

Really, man. You're just embarrassing yourself. Since you're clearly incapable of any rational analysis, I will no longer waste my time responding to your rants.

I don't HAVE to do anything. I'm not one who takes issue with what the Bible says. You do, though. I'm just trying to help you. It will make it easier on both of us if you just pick a topic you're interested in.

AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 9:46 pm

dorkseid wrote:

Love how AngelRho brags about how a third of the world's population is Christian in one post, then decries that Catholics don't count as true Christians in the next. Even though Catholics make up 50% of the figure he was boasting about. :lol:

I never said Catholics don't count as true Christians. I just find them amusing.

I don't mean that to be unduly demeaning. My Catholics friends are some of the coolest people I've ever met. When I first moved to the Mississippi Delta, my first instinct was to get involved in the local First Baptist Church. I didn't have many friends, I was pretty much a nobody, didn't have a lot of money, didn't come from a lot of money, and the first thing I do is try to connect with the affluent Baptist church downtown. At the time, it was exactly what I needed, and things were great for some years.

I made a lot of friends and eventually joined the staff.

But things changed, my friends moved away, and then I had people on staff give me a hard time about things, which made absolutely no sense because I pretty much keep to myself most of the time. But people get offended by things and look for someone to blame, I guess. And then all the crazy people that gave me and my family such a hard time moved away, got fired, and sometimes even DIED, but among the good things that left with them all was my support system.

About that time I took another part-time position with the local Catholic parish and the difference was night-and-day. They were very encouraging in ways my non-Catholic friends never were. It crossed my mind that converting might be an option, but I don't like the lengthy process involved and I'm not into the dogma. Dogma is something everyone has, btw, it's just a matter of what you're going to accept. Immaculate conception isn't Biblical. Transubstantiation isn't Biblical, either. And there's a massive list of things like that if you can't completely buy into it you can't be Catholic.

I'm not going to go so far as to say that Catholicism doesn't have wonderful people who truly are saved. However, I do believe that some of their teachings are misleading.

dorkseid
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12 Jul 2021, 9:48 pm

This whole "out of context" argument is such bullsh!t. Someone please explain to me how the wanton slaughter of children is okay in any context! What is this magical context that makes genocide suddenly acceptable?!

I remember when the History channel aired its Bible series. I was watching with a friend as they were talking about how the Israelites invaded some city and slaughtered everyone in it. My friend was appalled and exclaimed "they're taking God out of it!" What does that even mean? How does the inclusion of God change what was done?

dorkseid
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12 Jul 2021, 9:58 pm

AngelRho wrote:

If God came to you and commanded that you slaughter Muslim children the same way he commanded the Israelites to slaughter the children of Jericho, Samaria, Amalek, etc in the Bible, how would you respond? Is it moral to to slaughter children, or to disobey God?

My prediction is that you will constantly dance around this question and make excuse after excuse to avoid actually answering it.

AngelRho
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12 Jul 2021, 10:46 pm

dorkseid wrote:

Was genocide actually demanded in the Bible? How is genocide defined? A loose definition will count pretty much anything as genocide to the point that pretty much anything goes. That means that it would be easier to look at something that has been loosely labeled as genocide and come to the conclusion that genocide is more often justifiable than we previously considered. On top of that is the genocide label itself. A common tactic in Bible criticism is to slap an evil label on something and declare the whole thing bad when some things are only contingently evil

You may want to review what genocide actually is and find a relationship between that definition and what was recorded in the Bible. Genocide is never mentioned in the Bible. It is also well known that the Israelites never fully realized domination of the Semitic people occupying their territory. They negotiated peace treaties with some of them. This meant going against God’s instructions, yes, but nevertheless it proves genocide didn’t happen. If you know of a passage into be in the Bible that spells out that a given response was genocide, I’d love to review it for myself.

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13 Jul 2021, 1:10 am

Psalm 137 is sweet. I remember one time I was doing acid at a bar, and I was wadding up napkins and flattening them out just to stare at the creases I made, and I saw the words "Psalm 137" in one napkin so I looked up Psalm 137 and started reading out loud, and my voice kept climbing in volume and intensity so that when I got to the part about dashing babies heads into rocks I was basically screaming. Probably scared the heck out of some people, haha

Unrelated but can I just say I don't like Buddhists? I know this is a thread about Christianity, but I think Buddhists are actually worse than Christians.

Barchan
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13 Jul 2021, 1:14 am

AngelRho wrote:

the main thing Catholicism, Islam, and Judaism have in common. Catechism, Talmud, and whatever it is Moslems I have, I forget what it's called

The word you are looking for is Hadith <3

ToughDiamond
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13 Jul 2021, 1:31 am

^^
I like Zen buddhism, though that might be rather different from Buddhists for all I know. Zen doesn't try to teach you anything or impose control on you unless you want it to, and encourages you to find out for yourself if you want to know anything.

AngelRho
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13 Jul 2021, 6:09 am

dorkseid wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

Here’s the problem with answering that kind of question:

Quote:

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Unacceptable content includes swearing; racist, sexist, homophobic language; behavior intended to provoke or belittle other members; violent or sexually demeaning content;

The only way I COULD answer could be seen as provocative or belittling to Muslims, plus that would be violent content. You’re asking me to break WP rules, and I’m choosing not to. You might as well ask me if it’s ok to kill homosexuals. I’ve answered that before and gotten official warnings from mods.

It’s also a red herring because holy war to eliminate Muslims is never mentioned in the Bible. I can’t answer a question about whether I myself think it’s right to kill Muslims if God says so, but I can point to a lack of instruction from Jesus that Christians should initiate a holy war. The New Testament has no instructions for any kind of war in a Christian context. There’s no indication from the Old Testament that God ever intended a holy war beyond the boundaries of Israel. To justify any kind of war beyond that would require a war fought for extra-biblical interests.

What I CAN answer is this: It is NEVER moral to disobey God.

AngelRho
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13 Jul 2021, 6:16 am

Barchan wrote:

AngelRho wrote:

the main thing Catholicism, Islam, and Judaism have in common. Catechism, Talmud, and whatever it is Moslems I have, I forget what it's called

The word you are looking for is Hadith <3

Thaaaat’s right. And I think beyond that are various collections of teachings from religious leaders over the centuries. I have no interest in Islam, hence why I’m not as knowledgeable in that area. The most I could glean from it is that it’s basically organized Deism with a view to dominating the world.

aghogday
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13 Jul 2021, 9:11 am

AngelRho wrote:

What I CAN answer is this: It is NEVER moral to disobey God.

Oh Beauty of Kindness Coming To Breath To Exist As LoVE NoW OR

"What I CAN answer is this: It is NEVER moral to disobey God."

Smiles my FRiEnD, Drink The 'Kool Aid' Much...

As An Educated Man, i Find it Amusing to Find
An Entire Congregation of Folks Behind A Man

Raising A Book to the Sky

Worshipping An Old

Book of Free Verse

Poetry And Prose As Rarified

Abstract Constructed Script

in Old New Testament Way

too of Greek Writing Roman

Ghost Authors As If The Words Are

Written By Some God instead of Just Thousands

Of Years Old Words By Some Folks With A Pen When

Almost No One Else had the Ability to Script Down Words on Page...

HAHAhA, And Here Where Are

Ever Since The Year '313 AD';

People Still Following Rules of the

Old 'Roman Established Catholic Empire' Then...

Similar Organization Still Protecting Pedophiles...

This Makes You Constantine's Subject Still
Now in A Way; Indeed As You Still Fall Down

On Bended Knee And Drink the 'Kool-Aid'

Same As The Folks Who 'He' Ruled Back then...

You Even Come to Believe in an All Loving Forgiving

Merciful God Who Loves Enemies Same As FRiEnD And

God As Himself Tossing Humanity He Creates Who Don't Follow His

Rules into a Lake

of Fire

To Burn

Forever...

Hey, This Makes

'Jim Jones' Look Like

More Than A Saint Than

'Constantine', Yet it Ain't Sayin' Much...

Again A Child Dancing With Non-Sensical

Singing With no Lessons in Free Joy Like me Reflects A

Much Greater God Than One So Weak it Tortures What it

Creates Forever As IT JusT Ain't Man Enough to be Love Yet...

And Damn Sure Not Any God Worth Believing in That Weak And Narcissistic...

This is the Crux of the

Issue; Weak

Men

Without

Love Who Create

This HE MAN God of Torturing

His Creation Himself Forever Facepalm Forest Thick...

As A Psychologist/Sociologist/Anthropologist

Yes All My Lettered Degrees And More Now

It's Easy to See where this comes from indeed...

Particularly, Since I've Been THere Done It Too...

And Also Stays in All 'Deep South Ways oF iGNorance' Globe Wide...

There is A Kinder Gentler Way American Indians Dancing Singing

Almost Naked

Together

In An Old

or New 'Rave'

So Free As So

Many other Ways

of Naked Loving Fearless Freedom too..

Where It's NOT Necessary To Name God What You

Are As Loving Fearless Freedom Where You Don't

Even Have To become A Billionaire And Fly into Space

to Realize

It Was
Heaven

All Along

And Worth Staying

Now Appreciating Living Fearless
Love And Taking Care oF All oF IT Now...

Meanwhile, Other Folks Dream of 'Hot And Cold Rocks After Death'
As Their Preferred Destination of Living; There is a Greater World Now

For those

Who Come

to Actually

See WHeRE They are
Now Yet of Course IF They ARE LOVE NoW...

SMiLes my FRiEnD, THere Are Not Enough Words
iN Entire Existence For me to BeLieVE in Fool's God...

Or Obey

A Worst
Entity Than

'Jim Jones' As Letters in
An Old Dusty Frigging Antiquated Book...

Love Never Requires Worship; Love Always

Forgives No Exception When Giving Real...

i Surely Cannot

Will NOT Worship A

God Lesser than me...

And i Don't Even Rise

to the Level of Below A Grain of Sand Free...

In Other Words, i am Both Below and Above
Within, Inside, Outside And All Around No Separation Baby...

i have

no Need

to Worship me...

or Send Myself to Hell Either...

Again, At Least This is Indeed
A Much Nicer Staycation For Real Now...

Sadly, Wishing More Folks Have What
it takes to Visit, including You of Course too..

Meh, Perhaps With A Few more Decades You Will
Build A Field of Dreams And 'He' As You Will Come too...

As i surely
Had Little

To No Clue when

i Was Your Age Now...

Hell, Hadn't Even Visited

Hell Yet For Real Either...

Give it Some 'Time', Perhaps
One Day You Will Kill Time
Too And BREaTHE LoVE Free

Or Perhaps me And 'Eve' Will

See You too in the 'Chinese Restaurant Next Table

Over' Talking About The 'End of Heaven on Earth'...

Chances Are We Will Still Look Young As We Do Now..

Funny

How

Love Works...

Within At Least...

Yawn We Are The

Version of 'Adam And

Eve' Who Are Neither Afraid

of Not Eating The Apple And Eating it too...

For You See, i At Least Understand my Own
Deeper Metaphors of (GoD) Love... Don't

Be Afraid

If You

Will Write

Your Own Chapter

Of Heaven On EartH...

Better Yet Just Do It Now...

It's Too Damned Easy to Drown in
Old Cook Books That Promise to Serve Human...

-TWiLiGHT ZonE

"Some Days You

Eat The Bar;

Some Days It
Does The Other Thing"

-'The Dude'

From
"Blondie's 'Rapture'"

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Fnord
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13 Jul 2021, 9:14 am

If devout Christians would communicate clearly and in meaningful ways, Christianity would seem less absurd.

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ToughDiamond
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13 Jul 2021, 9:49 am

Fnord wrote:

If devout Christians would communicate clearly and in meaningful ways, Christianity would seem less absurd.

It might, but the trouble is that religion isn't rational or evidence-based, so it's hard for a practical-minded person to see any sense in it, presumably because there is none.

aghogday
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13 Jul 2021, 9:51 am

Fnord wrote:

If devout Christians would communicate clearly and in meaningful ways, Christianity would seem less absurd.

'That Part of the Old Bible is True';

Most often i am an

'Enigma'

To Folks

Where i Come From;

As Already Proven

Day in Day Out,

Not in Other Countries

Where Souls Wing Free...

Rarely in my Homeland True...

Tradition Excludes A Next Chapter

Of Humanity; Always Will For Those

With Closed Minds to Newer Ways of Seeing Loving Life..

Coming Out of Plato's Cave, The Metaphors are indeed Innumerable

And To Be Clear i Am No Christian Out of A Book I am; Just i Am Now...

Or Do You Even

Understand

What The

Older Bible Metaphors...

Truly Most So-Called

Christians Ain't Got A Clue...

Simply For the Science Assessed
Fact, Many Are Born And Bred With Closed Minds...

No Different Really Than Color Blind Or Mind Blind too...

For You See They Have no Way yet to 'See'... Perhaps They Still Will...

In This Case

Change

Is Their

Greatest God iNDeed...

Other than that Reality
Ain't Fair, Obviously
The Record 'HeaR' Speaks This Clear...

Yet Perhaps For only me to See; Yet Not Other Places For Real...
Again As the Record in Evidence Irrefutably Shows As Well; Oh the Evidence

A New

World

of Bible Writing Indeed...

Sorting Goats From Sheep

As 'They Say'...

G.O.A.T.;

True i've Been

Named G.O.A.T. too As The Record Still Speaks...

Yet Just For A Free Dance With No Words At All; Hehe...

Side Note; Most of my Ministry is in The Form of Dance

-Shiva

-Just
Another
Metaphor
FoR 'Me' HeHe..

Or A Leaf on A Tree
Either RiSinG Green
Or Falling Brown Feeding

Fertilizing New Soils For
Living Newer Chapter Soul Trees...

Dude, If You Are Going to Write Something
That Takes Folks A Thousand Years to Understand

iT Ain't

Gonna

Be Twitter
Size or Depth
And That's For Damned Sure True Now

As Even The Old Bible Still Speaks This Truth...

And Every Line of Poetry Ever Written As Free Verse...

It's A Lesson For You To Create Your Own Chapter of Life...

Sadly Folks Get Stuck in the Lives of Other 'Poems' And Stagnate...

Just Another

Day at

'The Chinese
Restaurant'... Yawn...

With All Due Respect
to Your Valuable Logical
Mind; There Are 'Un-limiting'
Evolving Newer Dimensions Always to Create;
Not All Will Travel to Create; Yet Some Still Will And Do...

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Last edited by aghogday on 13 Jul 2021, 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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13 Jul 2021, 9:53 am

ToughDiamond wrote:

Fnord wrote:

If devout Christians would communicate clearly and in meaningful ways, Christianity would seem less absurd.

It might, but the trouble is that religion isn't rational or evidence-based, so it's hard for a practical-minded person to see any sense in it, presumably because there is none.

Lord of The Rings is neither rational nor evidence-based, yet many practical-minded people seem to see some kind of "sense" in it, presumably because it is there.

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GGPViper
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13 Jul 2021, 10:24 am

Fnord wrote:

ToughDiamond wrote:

Fnord wrote:

If devout Christians would communicate clearly and in meaningful ways, Christianity would seem less absurd.

It might, but the trouble is that religion isn't rational or evidence-based, so it's hard for a practical-minded person to see any sense in it, presumably because there is none.

Lord of The Rings is neither rational nor evidence-based, yet many practical-minded people seem to see some kind of "sense" in it, presumably because there is some.

Well, I've yet to see anyone in the real world start any bloodthirsty holy wars over petty doctrinal differences because of Lord of the Rings*.

As for Christianity, that's basically the history of Europe from antiquity to the 17th century in a nutshell.

*If that happens, though, I'm taking up arms for Mordor. No way I'm joining the guys with hairy feet who aren't tall enough go on rides at a theme park.

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