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naturalplastic
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19 Aug 2021, 8:12 pm

I vote for Cao Dai (a 20th century Vietnamese faith).
They have funky temples with cool looking dragons. And they count Louis Pasteur as one of their "saints".



Rexi
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19 Aug 2021, 8:13 pm

Rational satanism isnt the scary religion based on doing harm at all times people think it is.

LaVey's teachings promoted "indulgence", "vital existence", "undefiled wisdom", "kindness to those who deserve it", "responsibility to the responsible", and an "eye for an eye" code of ethics, while shunning "abstinence" based on guilt, "spirituality", "unconditional love", "pacifism", "equality", "herd mentality", and "scapegoating". LaVey envisioned a Satanist as a carnal, physical, and pragmatic being. The core values of LaVey Satanism are the enjoyment of physical existence, and undiluted naturalism that sees mankind as animals that exist in an amoral universe.


I'm an atheist, though. I think you don't need to get indoctrinated, build new religions, make your own or select one of the many invented by humankind and truly believe in them. But you can study all of them. There is great manipulation and indoctrination happening with religion, people lose sight of reality and also what's important in their lives. You can lead a moral beautiful life without being tied to religion.


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19 Aug 2021, 8:30 pm

differentpage wrote:
Going back to the original question--this is not a criticism of the development of the thread, just an explanation of why my post doesn't fit with the recent ones--I've been reading a chapter of the Tao Te Ching every day lately, in several translations. I find it soothing. It seems to be more about getting comfortable with not knowing everything, and letting things happen as they're meant to do.

A Christian (maybe an unusually uptight one) told me I was going to hell for reading this, but I don't see that it's anti-religious in any way. It's just a new way to relate to the difficulties of life. Actually not so new, since it's supposed to have been written thousands of years ago, and is still widely read.

It could even lead to a religion, since to follow it or even to consider it is to soften the approach to the world, not try to control everything, and let things come instead.


I like the Tao Te Ching and find it soothing too. The whole concept of non ado is something I would like to consistently embrace and live more than I do now. Just letting things happen, be, that to me is damn near perfection.



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24 Aug 2021, 4:36 pm

^ I am Christian, but a huge fan of the Tao


funeralxempire wrote:
Image
Image


kind of a [a compete and total] hit post on old St Nick there..

Quote:
He was later cast into prison during the persecution of Diocletian, but was released after the accession of Constantine. An early list makes him an attendee at the First Council of Nicaea in 325, but he is never mentioned in any writings by people who were actually at the council. Late, unsubstantiated legends claim that he was temporarily defrocked and imprisoned during the council for slapping the heretic Arius


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas


even if true, I know we are supposed to love our enimies and put down our swords, but cant you relate to b***h slapping the first ayrian?



Last edited by The_Znof on 24 Aug 2021, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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24 Aug 2021, 4:38 pm

The_Znof wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Image
Image


kind of a [a compete and total] hit post on old St Nick there,]

Quote:
He was later cast into prison during the persecution of Diocletian, but was released after the accession of Constantine. An early list makes him an attendee at the First Council of Nicaea in 325, but he is never mentioned in any writings by people who were actually at the council. Late, unsubstantiated legends claim that he was temporarily defrocked and imprisoned during the council for slapping the heretic Arius


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas


It's only a hit post if slapping heretics is seen as a bad thing. :wink:


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24 Aug 2021, 4:57 pm

slapping heretics is bad, mkay?

Just ask Nietzsche. :twisted:

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It is so little true that martyrs offer any support to the truth of a cause that I am inclined to deny that any martyr has ever had anything to do with the truth at all.



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24 Aug 2021, 5:07 pm

The_Znof wrote:
slapping heretics is bad, mkay?

Just ask Nietzsche. :twisted:

Quote:
It is so little true that martyrs offer any support to the truth of a cause that I am inclined to deny that any martyr has ever had anything to do with the truth at all.


Well, I know what ol' Saint Nick is bringing you this year. 8)


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24 Aug 2021, 6:08 pm

Rexi wrote:
Rational satanism isnt the scary religion based on doing harm at all times people think it is.

LaVey's teachings promoted "indulgence", "vital existence", "undefiled wisdom", "kindness to those who deserve it", "responsibility to the responsible", and an "eye for an eye" code of ethics, while shunning "abstinence" based on guilt, "spirituality", "unconditional love", "pacifism", "equality", "herd mentality", and "scapegoating". LaVey envisioned a Satanist as a carnal, physical, and pragmatic being. The core values of LaVey Satanism are the enjoyment of physical existence, and undiluted naturalism that sees mankind as animals that exist in an amoral universe.


I'm an atheist, though. I think you don't need to get indoctrinated, build new religions, make your own or select one of the many invented by humankind and truly believe in them. But you can study all of them. There is great manipulation and indoctrination happening with religion, people lose sight of reality and also what's important in their lives. You can lead a moral beautiful life without being tied to religion.


I agree that an invented religion isn't the best way to go. Even if LaVey's religion was actually theistic, it would simply follow in a long line of various forms of demon-worship.

LaVey makes many excellent points in terms of living the best temporal life. I'm a Christian and agree with many things LaVey taught. I'm wary of the Baphomet symbolism, naturally, and I'm not convinced that rebellion is the best way to go, which is what Satan represents in LaVeyan Satanism. Rebellion against, WHAT, exactly?

But there's good stuff there. It looks like what LaVey did was take the best of Ayn Rand and slapped mysticism on it for the sake of irony. I'm not sure Rand would exactly be impressed. I think Christianity would benefit from exploring Objectivism and finding compatibility with it. Consider the traditional role of guilt in Christian churches and flip it on its head. The atonement Jesus made on our behalf on the cross removes human guilt. We aren't perfect people by any stretch. It's just that guilt becomes irrelevant. And because of that there's no need to dwell on it, no need to emotionally manipulate believers. There's no need to guilt people for building wealth and enjoying life. If Jesus meant to love your neighbor as yourself, doesn't it just make sense that you can't love your neighbor if you don't love yourself first? I think rugged individualism better informs an Objective, Christian morality and the church ought to teach it. It's sad that people calling themselves "Satanists" and are actually atheists somehow figured out how to love and obey God better than many Christians do.



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25 Aug 2021, 11:04 am

AngelRho wrote:
It's sad that people calling themselves "Satanists" and are actually atheists somehow figured out how to love and obey God better than many Christians do.


In agreement here.

I'd add that it is also sad that people calling themselves "Christians" and are actually Satanists who follow the edicts of Satanism, (i.e. who show kindness to those they feel deserve it and withhold it from those they don't, etc.,) better than many Satanists do.



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25 Aug 2021, 12:21 pm

AngelL wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
It's sad that people calling themselves "Satanists" and are actually atheists somehow figured out how to love and obey God better than many Christians do.


In agreement here.

I'd add that it is also sad that people calling themselves "Christians" and are actually Satanists who follow the edicts of Satanism, (i.e. who show kindness to those they feel deserve it and withhold it from those they don't, etc.,) better than many Satanists do.

Consider some of the stuff Jesus actually said: Do not cast your pearls before swine, else they'll trample the pearls and kill you. How much clearer does it get? You don't OWE evil people the truth. You don't owe them wisdom. And if they aren't going to listen and repent, be saved, become better people, what's the point of proclaiming the gospel and doing good things?

From a Christian perspective, it is wrong to simply write other human beings off as lost. I'm not saying Jesus meant for us to mind our own business and keep to ourselves. But you also can't ignore those times that God DID write people off--humanity against Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho/Canaan. And if you want a beautiful picture of undeserved mercy, take the conquest of Canaan. God instructed the Israelites to wipe out all people they found in Canaan. They were considered unredeemable. But before the conquest began, God said he'd drive them out in fear ahead of the Israelites, meaning many Canaanites had the chance to escape. And even after that, God already knew that by sending the Israelites in to destroy everyone in Canaan that the Israelites wouldn't ultimately succeed. God was sending a message. And the presence of the Israelites sparing a people set aside for destruction was a last-minute reprieve. You cannot say there isn't a place for undeserved mercy.

But what offends me the idea is that we OWE anyone mercy and compassion--and even worse, IMO, that anyone owes US mercy and compassion. But what Objectivism and LaVeyism emphasize is the value of human beings and the motivation to do things out of love for others. I think that's one of the central messages of the gospels and the epistles that gets left out of the Christian experience. All people are worth something, but many people MAKE themselves worthless to others--they are violent, unjust, envious, and greedy. It is noble to love other human beings for their own sake and try to bring them to the light out of that love. But ultimately all people are responsible for themselves. If a violent person will not become peaceful but instead becomes a murderer, he should be put to death. If you are the cause of an accident, whether intentional or not, and you, say, cut off a person's arm, then you should compensate that person for his loss--whatever is agreed upon as fair. If someone is TRYING to cut your arm off for no reason, you have every right to defend yourself even if it means potentially killing your attacker. What is more often taught in Christian churches is altruism, that if someone wants to take your life, don't fight it. If someone wants to control your mind, let them. Anything that results in the unfair gain of another person at your expense, comply. And when I read the Bible, while I don't ignore anything about love and compassion, I do not read that Christians are commanded to be the doormat of the world. I believe in the principle of non-aggression, that violence is never to be initiated and that peaceful routes should be the only ones sought. But if you destroy a life in defending yourself, you cannot be held accountable for that.

I'm not saying I think Christians need to start studying LaVey or that they need to read Ayn Rand as much as I do. I'm just saying we need to reevaluate some things in order to truly be what Jesus meant for us to be. Ayn Rand was often accused of being cold and cruel. No, she was a realist, and reality isn't always very kind. You can't really understand Objectivism if you don't understand gratitude, and gratitude is something I'd like to see more of us Christians try for a change.



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25 Aug 2021, 2:45 pm

AngelRho wrote:
AngelL wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
It's sad that people calling themselves "Satanists" and are actually atheists somehow figured out how to love and obey God better than many Christians do.


In agreement here.

I'd add that it is also sad that people calling themselves "Christians" and are actually Satanists who follow the edicts of Satanism, (i.e. who show kindness to those they feel deserve it and withhold it from those they don't, etc.,) better than many Satanists do.


You don't OWE evil people the truth.


Perhaps not, but I owe it to myself to be truthful with everyone.

AngelRho wrote:
You don't owe them wisdom. And if they aren't going to listen and repent, be saved, become better people, what's the point of proclaiming the gospel and doing good things?


I'm sure that you are familiar with this quote, often incorrectly attributed to St. Francis, "Preach the gospel unceasingly; and if absolutely necessary, use words." We proclaim the gospel and do good things because we are commanded to do so.

AngelRho wrote:
But what offends me the idea is that we OWE anyone mercy and compassion--and even worse, IMO, that anyone owes US mercy and compassion.


"So in all things, do unto others...for this sums up the Law..." I desire mercy and compassion as do all. Therefore I owe others mercy and compassion. And by virtue of this directive, they owe me mercy and compassion.

AngelRho wrote:
All people are worth something, but many people MAKE themselves worthless to others--they are violent, unjust, envious, and greedy.


I would amend this slightly (in my opinion - as is all of this) to: "All people have equal worth, but many people demonstrate worthless behavior..."

AngelRho wrote:
It is noble to love other human beings for their own sake and try to bring them to the light out of that love. But ultimately all people are responsible for themselves.


Right? What am I - my brother's keeper or something? ;)

AngelRho wrote:
If a violent person will not become peaceful but instead becomes a murderer, he should be put to death.


Well, I mean, if a violent person becomes a murderer, he becomes an enemy of not just the person that s/he murdered but an enemy of all of society, yes? "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

AngelRho wrote:
If someone is TRYING to cut your arm off for no reason, you have every right to defend yourself even if it means potentially killing your attacker. What is more often taught in Christian churches is altruism, that if someone wants to take your life, don't fight it. If someone wants to control your mind, let them. Anything that results in the unfair gain of another person at your expense, comply.


I do not attend Christian churches, so I didn't know that they took this position. I thinking is more closely aligned with yours. Ideally, I (believe) that I should treat the person who is trying to cut off my arm with the same heart as if it were my child. I am not going to allow my child to cut off my arm and will do whatever it takes to stop them - but they are my child. I love them and I want to do as little damage as I must to stop them. This, to me, is right perspective.

AngelRho wrote:
And when I read the Bible, while I don't ignore anything about love and compassion, I do not read that Christians are commanded to be the doormat of the world.


Agreed. Being a doormat would be allowing my child to cut off my arm because I chose not to hit them over the head with a frying pan to knock them out. Hitting them over the head with a frying pan in order to knock them out so they can't cut off my arm doesn't treat them any differently than I would want to be treated if I lost my mind and tried to hurt someone. I am a child of my Creator - royalty, if you will...but so are you. So is my child, so is the person trying to cut off my arm, and so is the troll who follows this post so s/he can tell me 'how stupid I am for believing this nonsense'. In every way that matters, they are my brother or sister. I would never put my brother or sister to death if I could prevent it.

AngelRho wrote:
...gratitude is something I'd like to see more of us Christians try for a change.


Gratitude is something I'd like to see more of the world try for a change. :)



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25 Aug 2021, 4:15 pm



HMM... Enough Authors
Wrote the Story of Jesus

So That Everyone Could

Find Their Own Jesus

And in Doing So

They

Create

A Mirror of Jesus

That Suits Their
Soul DarK Thru LiGHT

From Love Thine Enemy
Turn the Other Cheek
To Change The Person Who

Is Not Do-Gooding Enough From
Disloyal Sheep Into Goat And Burn Them
Forever or Toss them in a Lake of Fire Same Effect...

My Form of Asperger's

Syndrome Sees the

Errors in Stories Easily

Both Grammar, Spelling,
And Inconsistencies; It Was
A Piece of Pie With Almost Unlimited

Pieces for me to See How Many Folks Wrote

The Story of Jesus in 'THAT BOOK' And ever
Since Then i Hear A Different Interpretation

Of How Folks

Attempt

to Fit Him

In THeir Mirror

That Looks the

Most Like Them...

Go Figure, Human Nature

And According to Neuroscience

Now Our Realities Reflect What We
Expect to Hallucinate Based on the
Hallucinations We Create Before to
Survive And Thrive For What Evolution

Does Best in Our Case Dreams And Nightmares in Fruition on Earth...

What We Can And Will Do Is Study the Other Animals, Our Kissing Cousins,

The Bonobos Who Have Oral Sex For the Empathy of Pleasure They Feel in Each

Other And Who Kiss Face-to-Face Just For Pleasure of the Same And Who Base

Their Small Homogenous Isolated Tribes
From Other

Tribes

For Peace

Sharing Love

Together This Way

This Is How they Get
Their Kicks After They Kick
Each Other A Reciprocal Reconciling Kiss of Pleasure....

Or Whatever Else Works For the Call of the Wild in Pleasure...

And of Course, Frans De Waal, Studying Chimps in the Wild Dispelled

The Myth That Chimps Are Brutal And Unforgiving For They Reconcile

In Love With Empathy Same As Human Beings Do And Bonobos Show A Great

Altruism With Each Other As Humans Naturally Do; Cause Guess What When Healthy

And Normal

It Feels Good to

F R E E L Y NoW

Give, Share, Care,

Without Restraint

Yet Only When Healthy

And Normal For It is True Some

Folks Even Still See A Psychopathic Leaning

Jesus Who Burns Enemies Forever Now No Different

Really Than the Folks Who Wrote The Story or Edited It

To Help Dominate Other Empires Still the 'Roman Way Now'...

i don't Like Stories

That Are Inconsistent;

Yet The Truth is HUMAN

NATURE IS NOT RATIONAL AT

CORE; OUR DREAMS AND OUR NIGHTMARES

WE CREATE IN OUR OWN HELLS AND HEAVEN'S AND
PURGATORY'S ON EartH

or shall
we look

around 'these'

days and see
all the fruits fresh and rotten that

humans create and do out of balance

or shall we be more like the Bonobo in Balance

And Make Love Our Purview of Life in Balance With
The Rest of Nature; i Will Tale You This, IF We Do Not,

We Will

Go Away

Forever

Sooner than Sooner...

A Religion to Stay Might

Be NICE; i Shall/WiLL Do That/

This ToGeTHeR or Solo iN Effort Now...

Anyway, With So Many Personal Jesus Folk
Hanging Around Both Individually, Sect Wise
Per Religion, And By Religion As Well THE FaCT

iS OnLY

ONE

JESUS WILL

EVER WALK

ON EARTH AGAIN;

THE JESUS EACH

INDIVIDUAL CREATES

ANEW OR COPIES THE

BEST FOR WHATEVER THeiR

Rorschach Test of Life Offers up

to the World, No Matter What 'JeSuS Name' Comes Next...

If 'This Thread' Isn't Enough Evidence oF IT Just on 'This
Page' Now; THere is the Rest of ReaLiTy to Prove it Eternally Now...

JeSuS,

JeSuS,

Oh JeSuS,

So Many

JeSuS Folks

Afraid to Return Now...

For That is the Only Way

The Story Will Ever Rise
Or Fall CoMinG ALiVE NoW aS IT
Still Does Evergreening ReaLiTY

Everstarting NeW NoW; Meh, It's the
Way Stories Create Life Next Art or Fiction Today ReaLiTY NoW;

For It's True, This Is What Sets Us Apart From Chimps And Bonobos;

We Humans Create Heaven, Purgatory, Or Hell on Earth By our Own

Volition; We Also Create Only He God's With A PeNis too my, my, my,

How Strange

This Condition

And That Condition

Is Considering Where

All Human Life Comes

From True Both Sperm And Egg....

The Fact That Dudes Only Grow A

Penis With Hormones Sprinkled in The Womb

And Other Genetic DNA Potentials Come Real;

Says A Lot About Which Came First, The PeNis
or VaGina, Some Folks Call God...

It's 'Pure Insanity'

to Put the Force

oF All That Exists

in A PeNiS or Try

to Fit God in a Three Letter

Word That Gets Trapped on

The Roof of A Mouth As

Humans Are Naturally Foolish This Way...

Meh, Price of MaKinG Words More Valuable Than Essence of
What Is No Different Than A Golden Calf Idol This Three Letter

Word GoD From A PEN IS...

Yawn, Not Able to
Speak Until Age 4
So Much Easier

To See

A Naked

God Without

A Small Chasity

Belt of Three Letters...

Or in Just one Bearded

Hanging Painting that looks
A lot Like 'The Last Supper'

That Looks A lot like DaVinci

Who Wore His Hair And Beard that
Way in a Day When it Wasn't 'Kosher' Either;

Yet He's Still Worshipped in Form on Bended Knee

This Way, no Different Than All the Authors Who Wrote

The Book Every Sunday As the Priest or Pastor Raises the

Idol Calf

Book to

The Sky

With Great Praise

of the Golden Calf....

Oh Lord, Humans Are So Dam AMuSinG..

THaT/THiS Much is Surely TRuE DarK Thru LiGHT

Wherever iMaGiNaTioN And Creativity Gardens Our
Realities Next For Real...

Yet 'Hear's What's

Left and Right

That's Real

How We Feel

And Sense Life Now

For Real at Least for me

i Create Heaven on Earth Real
Within And As Science Shows An
Autotelic Flow of Living Always
With Increasing Complexity in

Effortless Ease

of 'Tao'

Existence

Is What Truly

Works At Ease

Of Essence Beyond All Form Now...

Yet of Course i am Both Scientist

And Artist And Never Half A Human Anymore...

Typically, 'Outcast Folks' With 'Clothes' Become Whole Most Best They Can And
Will Now Creating Their Heaven's, Purgatory's, Hell'S oN EarTh For Real Now Within...

Clue: We aRe ALL Outcasts With the Tools We Create That Become Us Next Now While

Other
Animals,
Overall, Remain Naked And
Loving Free Mostly More Than Us...

At Least, 'Bonobos' JusT Do it Free Now And That's For Sure...

Yet It's True as Science Shows too; At Core Religion is What Binds
And Bonds Humans Together in the CuLTuRaL Symbols They

iMaGiNE

And Create;

Whether it is FootBallism

or BasketBallism Humans As

Classically Evolved Now Will

Get ToGeTHeR And Create

Continually Changing

Religions to

Bond and

Bind in Church

Or State Or Whatever

NFL Team is Worshipped Next...

So i Create my Own Religion Now...
Clue: It'S F iN EPiC...

A Human

Story

Like All The Rest...

Deeper Than Most of

Course Nature of the Beast, i AM, Me Too..:)



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27 Aug 2021, 5:03 am

The question to ask is not which religion is the most suitable, but where the religion is going. Where it takes you, and that goes with all beliefs including non belief or atheism.

Life is short. We need to go on the right path while we still can.



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27 Aug 2021, 8:29 am

I don't know really. I just believe in not overestimating ourselves and our restrictions as this life is is not a Paradise, do my Best to help people endure life and surrendering to God's Will.

Try to be kind and helpful to people and spread the love you experienced to everyone in your life. Work hard to make a positive change in people's lives. Oh and also some things you experience in this life definitely come from an endless source. They have nothing to do with material world and it's restrictions.

I believe in surrendering to what life has given me and creating beauty from it.



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27 Aug 2021, 5:42 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
The question to ask is not which religion is the most suitable, but where the religion is going. Where it takes you, and that goes with all beliefs including non belief or atheism.

Life is short. We need to go on the right path while we still can.


holy s**t, you nailed that one////1 :ninja:



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27 Aug 2021, 6:45 pm

^
But is it ever as black-and-white as that? I would think all most of us can do is to look around and take a nibble at whatever looks like it might be a good fit, but who knows if there's another better one just round the corner, or how long the current one will remain appropriate? Sure, most of us would want to do the best thing for us, but there are so many things to choose from. It would be like trying to find the perfect song.