Does systemic racism against blacks even exist anymore?

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salad
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06 Aug 2021, 10:28 pm

So here's my dilemma. I am a member of a group called the Anti Racism Society and tomorrow is a meeting. The premise of this group is that systemic racism against blacks is still a major issue in America today. I joined this group after the events of the Floyd riots last year where I was convinced that anti-Black racism was a major epidemic in this country

But now im starting to actually question how pervasive and even valid this claim of anti-black racism is

After multiple organizations and corporations pledged openly to hire more black workers, Uber to give discounts to rides to black businesses, Google and all of social media devoting itself to the cause of black pride, bookstores across America like Barnes and Noble dedicating special sections just to books on black history and black topics, as well as every politician speaking in favor of black rights and even the most racist being too afraid to deviate too far from the narrative lest they get cancelled, I question just how alive this systemic racism against blacks really is.

I am in no way saying that everything I wrote above invalidates whatever claims of racism there is, nor am I saying it isn't a thing, but there is a part of me wondering if systemic racism against blacks is a boogeyman used to derive power for some race baiters and whether its a lot more hype than facts

Maybe im wrong. Im Palestinian, not African American, so im not as educated on matters of African American issues as I wish I was.

I just feel like given that the Native American community has a much higher suicide rate, much higher rate of being shot by the police, and overall worse statistics, it boggles my mind why the Zeitgist in 2020 was fighting anti-black racism all of a sudden, as if there were ulterior motives to the entire narrative of fighting systemic racism against blacks

Another thing that caused me some doubts in my former beliefs is that the media's over-reportage on crimes with a white perpetrator and black victim, even when the statistics show that most interracial crimes are black on white than white on black.

Id love to hear your opinions as I contemplate whether I should join tomorrow's meeting or not


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Last edited by salad on 06 Aug 2021, 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IsabellaLinton
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06 Aug 2021, 10:33 pm

Anti-Racism as a concept shouldn't pertain only to black people. It should pertain to racial bigotry, or any notion that people can / should be divided, categorised, judged, praised, insulted, or otherwise commodified by their background. I refrain from using the word "ethnic" background, because everyone on Earth is ethnic to an origin.

I agree that Indigenous and First Nations people face and have faced discrimination and genocide which is largely ignored.

I wrote some rants about it last week, with very little response.



salad
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06 Aug 2021, 10:37 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Anti-Racism as a concept shouldn't pertain only to black people. It should pertain to racial bigotry, or any notion that people can / should be divided, categorised, judged, praised, insulted, or otherwise commodified by their background. I refrain from using the word "ethnic" background, because everyone on Earth is ethnic to an origin.

I agree that Indigenous and First Nations people face and have faced discrimination and genocide which is largely ignored.

I wrote some rants about it last week, with very little response.


Dont even get me started on the media's silence on Native American oppression. Ive attended meetings where Native American tribal elders spoke about their experiences in the residential schools and it caused me vicarious PTSD hearing some of the stuff they've been through. I know you suffer your own PTSD so I dont want to be explicit and graphic, but it was really messed up s**t that if America knew there would be much greater outrage than what we saw after George Floyd died.

It's horrible how badly this country treated the Natives and its sad that we barely compensated them a fraction for one of the worst genocides in history


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IsabellaLinton
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06 Aug 2021, 10:41 pm

I wasn't talking about American people but yes, I agree.

I'm studying the Residential Schools problem in Canada, and my bf is currently in Vancouver working in psychological services for people affected.

No amount of restitution can make amends for the atrocities that occurred.



salad
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06 Aug 2021, 10:51 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I wasn't talking about American people but yes, I agree.

I'm studying the Residential Schools problem in Canada, and my bf is currently in Vancouver working in psychological services for people affected.

No amount of restitution can make amends for the atrocities that occurred.


But Germany showed that even given the Holocaust, arguably the worst crime against humanity in history, it's still possible to do the best one can in rectifying wrongs by taking complete ownership, removing all symbols of oppression, banning the very support of oppression, and paying indemnities perpetually as a reminder till the end of time that Germany f****d up and can never undo the harm it did to the Jews, Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses, and everyone else targeted in the Holocaust.

America hasnt even come close to rectifying what it did to the Natives. We still use their names as sports teams and offensive mascots. Whites regularly go onto reservations, commit rapes, and other horrible crimes with impunity. Nothing can be done to undo the atrocities our nation has committed against the indigenous people of this land, but we can at least do more to mitigate its impact as much as possible


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IsabellaLinton
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06 Aug 2021, 10:55 pm

I believe most sports teams are changing their names. Or, I hope so.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/0 ... hools.html

Canada also appointed an Indigenous Governor General, Mary Simon, who will lead the reconciliation and mental health initiative from coast to coast to coast.

https://nationalpost.com/news/mary-simo ... -hold-role



vividgroovy
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07 Aug 2021, 3:08 am

I believe systemic racism against black people is sadly still a thing in America. I also believe that partisan politics is extremely opportunistic and both parties will try to spin things to their advantage no matter what happens.

An ex-facebook friend posted an article about how voting third-party is a sign of “white privilege” and how the only moral option is, of course, to vote for the party that the author wants you to. That's incredibly manipulative to me. This same person also posted an article about how systemic racism (i.e., a white employer discriminating against a black employee) is bad, while non-systemic racism (i.e., a black employer discriminating against a white employee) is totally fine. I asked why we couldn't be against all types of racism. No response.

Also, some of what is presented under the label of “Anti-Racism” comes across as terribly racist and segregationist to me.

Cartoon Network put out a series of PSAs that attack earlier forms of racial equality messages in the name of “Anti-Racism.” One of them teaches young children to judge their friends by the color of their skin on the idea that “colorblindness” prevents people from understanding racial issues. Then people online say, “The only reason anyone dislikes these PSAs is because they're racist!” and “But it can't be racist because it's called Anti-Racism!” :P



Harry Haller
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07 Aug 2021, 3:07 pm

Systemic racism nawwwwww, of course not
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1276216
See??



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07 Aug 2021, 3:59 pm

Yes, it demonstrably does.


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07 Aug 2021, 4:19 pm

Well the systematic opression against black people is real. And like all that stuff about google and other companies doing things to like support black people...that does not fix the real issues necessarily. In some cases it is just posturing so bigger companies can seem more ethical, when they may not even care about the issue.

You do bring up a good point about the Native Americans though, there really should be more focus on helping them and rectifying some of our wrongs towards them. I don't mean 'ours' in a self blaming way, but it was my nation that did it to them even if I had no part in that, nothing wrong with like wanting my country to make amends to them. Though seems there may be a bit more focus on that nowdays than before...one team called Indians with a racist mascot, did change their name and are doing away with the mascot.



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07 Aug 2021, 4:29 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
You do bring up a good point about the Native Americans though, there really should be more focus on helping them and rectifying some of our wrongs towards them. I don't mean 'ours' in a self blaming way, but it was my nation that did it to them even if I had no part in that, nothing wrong with like wanting my country to make amends to them. Though seems there may be a bit more focus on that nowdays than before...one team called Indians with a racist mascot, did change their name and are doing away with the mascot.


People seem to like thinking in dichotomies, I think that contributes to why indigenous peoples in the US sometimes get forgotten about or ignored. Because black/white dynamics is most glaring source of racial tensions in the US other struggles sometimes get overlooked.

Canada seems to be more caught up on English/French and white/indigenous conflict to the point that sometimes other struggles (like those facing black Canadians) sometimes get overlooked.

Most people only have limited attention and processing power so issues always get oversimplified with pieces overlooked.


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07 Aug 2021, 7:54 pm

salad wrote:
Does systemic racism against blacks even exist anymore?
Yes.



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08 Aug 2021, 9:50 am

I don't think such generalizations are correct.

All black people experience racism with every aspect of an entire system. <--- Probably wrong.

More likely, a few black people experience isolated incidents of racism.


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08 Aug 2021, 10:19 am

This really opened my eyes.

I experienced some racism when I was younger. I was an English person living in one of the most closed minded counties in Scotland. They hate the English, openly, unreservedly. It was hell. Apparently I'm an "English bastard".

But no one ever looked at me in front of my own home and assumed I shouldn't be there because of my skin colour.



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08 Aug 2021, 10:23 am

Yes join the meeting, but shut up and listen. You're not black.

Imagine I was trying to explain the racism I've experienced and some random dude was like, "nah, doesn't happen anymore and even if it does you're an outlier. Maybe you did something to trigger it. Most people don't experience that".

Just shut up and let the people it's happened to tell their stories.



salad
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08 Aug 2021, 10:31 am

hurtloam wrote:
Yes join the meeting, but shut up and listen. You're not black.

Imagine I was trying to explain the racism I've experienced and some random dude was like, "nah, doesn't happen anymore and even if it does you're an outlier. Maybe you did something to trigger it. Most people don't experience that".

Just shut up and let the people it's happened to tell their stories.


Whether racism exists on an individual level is an inherently subjective experience so no one has a right to invalidate

However to assert systemic racism exists on a societal level with actual racist codes permeating societal institutions, that is an actual objective contention that can be scrutinized, analyzed and appraised, and skepticism isnt the same as outright dismissing the individual grievances of individuals in society

I dont dispute the lived experiences of individual African Americans who have experienced racism. What I am slightly skeptical of is the larger claim that modern American society is still objectively racist and systematically discriminatory towards African Americans


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