Why do some women think there is a wage gap?

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ironpony
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03 Dec 2021, 1:18 am

My gf and my women friends think this and maybe they are right but I do not ever see this wage gap. When I see a job advertised, their is only one wage. It's not like they list a different wage between genders. And it's not like they change the wage if they decide to hire a woman. They still stick to the wage that was advertised. So I do not see what my friends are talking about, unless I am missing it?



QFT
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03 Dec 2021, 1:45 am

Yeah I have that same question too.

Just a guess: maybe they are talking about women not getting hired to certain positions? As in, directors get paid more, regardless of gender. But women tend not to become directors? That would sound more realistic.

But maybe they are talking about something else and I am also missing something?



ironpony
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03 Dec 2021, 1:58 am

Oh okay, but if that's the case, wouldn't it make more sense to call it a promotion gap, rather than a wage gap?



QFT
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03 Dec 2021, 2:27 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but if that's the case, wouldn't it make more sense to call it a promotion gap, rather than a wage gap?


Yes, thats why I said I am not sure my guess is correct.

Perhaps they use "wage gap" as a means of measuring "promotion gaps"? As in, in order to compare how bad it is not to become a director to how bad it is not to be hired into high tech, you have to compare the impact on the wage in both cases? So saying "women on average end up being paid 60% of men" gives you a number to work with.

Or maybe it is something like this. If you leave out money, then you would say "men are more successful at getting hired at high tech, women are more successful at being hired as teachers, so it balances out". But if you do include money then you will say "no, wait a second: people at high tech are being paid a lot more than teachers, so no it doesn't balance out". Thus, how much an average woman gets paid in comparison to average man is ultimately the crux of the argument.



cyberdad
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03 Dec 2021, 3:07 am

Doesn't exist in government or Universities. Also with trades and services where there is a fixed cost of services.

It's a private sector issue when contracts are drawn up and you have something called enterprise bargaining. Negotiated wages where this no government regulation is a wet dream of many right wingers. Employers can pay different salaries however they feel and depending on demand and supply.



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03 Dec 2021, 9:34 am

ironpony wrote:
Why do some women think there is a wage gap?
Because there is a wage gap, even among degreed professionals.

When offering a job, many HR people will low-ball the offer equally; but other factors come into play:

1) Women who earn degrees tend to gravitate toward the softer HASS degrees, while men tend to pursue the harder STEM degrees.  Generally speaking, employers perceive most STEM degrees as more valuable than most HASS degrees.  Thus, employers perceive people with STEM degrees as more valuable than people with HASS degrees.

2) Women are more likely to settle for the first offer they receive, while men are more likely to try to negotiate for higher pay.

3) Increases in pay are calculated based on actual hours worked, and not on years of employment.  Men are more likely to report for work even when they, their spouses, or their children are sick; while women are more likely to stay home and care for themselves and their sick children.  Thus, in any given year, men show up for work and put in full days more often, without needing to leave early to pick up their kids or take days off to visit the pediatrician or attend parent-teacher conferences.

Please note that these are the general trends, not hard-and-fast rules.  These are also "traditional" behaviors inherited from a time when men were the sole breadwinners and women were house-bound wives and mothers.  Times are a-changing (or they were before covid), but slowly.



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03 Dec 2021, 9:43 am

Because it's well documented phenomenon at this point. Why do some people still pretend otherwise? :?


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03 Dec 2021, 9:47 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Because it's well documented phenomenon at this point.  Why do some people still pretend otherwise?
Because as long as they can deny the problem exists, they do not have to do anything about it.



Tim_Tex
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03 Dec 2021, 9:47 am

Also, conservatives want to keep women down (especially women of color).

Proof:

1. Their war against abortion. Abortion should be unrestricted, on-demand, without apology, completely taxpayer-funded, and completely available during the third trimester.

2. Their voting for Donald Trump in 2016 simply because his opponent was a woman.

3. Their attacks on the Squad, of whom 5 of the 6 members are women, 5 of whom are people of color, and 2 of whom are Muslims, and their attacks on Kamala Harris (a woman of color)

4. Not allowing equal pay for equal work

5. Believing that a woman's place is in the kitchen.


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Fnord
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03 Dec 2021, 9:51 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Also, conservatives want to keep women down (especially women of color).

Proof:

1. Their war against abortion. Abortion should be unrestricted, on-demand, without apology, completely taxpayer-funded, and completely available during the third trimester.

2. Their voting for Donald Trump in 2016 simply because his opponent was a woman.

3. Their attacks on the Squad, of whom 5 of the 6 members are women, 5 of whom are people of color, and 2 of whom are Muslims, and their attacks on Kamala Harris (a woman of color)

4. Not allowing equal pay for equal work

5. Believing that a woman's place is in the kitchen.
A.K.A., The Patriarchy.



funeralxempire
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03 Dec 2021, 9:53 am

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Because it's well documented phenomenon at this point.  Why do some people still pretend otherwise?
Because as long as they can deny the problem exists, they do not have to do anything about it.


I'm kind of specifically asking ironpony why he's denying the wage gap. Considering how firmly substantiated the idea is the burden is on those insisting it doesn't exist to present evidence for that position.


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03 Dec 2021, 9:59 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Because it's well documented phenomenon at this point.  Why do some people still pretend otherwise?
Because as long as they can deny the problem exists, they do not have to do anything about it.


I'm kind of specifically asking ironpony why he's denying the wage gap. Considering how firmly substantiated the idea is the burden is on those insisting it doesn't exist to present evidence for that position.


The answer is in the OP: he cited that official wages are the same.

And he isn't trying to argue "against" there being a wage gap. He is asking a "question" to "show him" where -- despite official numbers. Presumably once you show him, he will then believe. And some of the responders in fact gave him the answer which is good.

In the above quote you are asking him to simply belive something because its been repeated over and over without even asking how to substantiate. That kind of thing is common on both sides of two party system and I don't get why so many do that.



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03 Dec 2021, 10:09 am

Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Also, conservatives want to keep women down (especially women of color).

Proof:

1. Their war against abortion. Abortion should be unrestricted, on-demand, without apology, completely taxpayer-funded, and completely available during the third trimester.

2. Their voting for Donald Trump in 2016 simply because his opponent was a woman.

3. Their attacks on the Squad, of whom 5 of the 6 members are women, 5 of whom are people of color, and 2 of whom are Muslims, and their attacks on Kamala Harris (a woman of color)

4. Not allowing equal pay for equal work

5. Believing that a woman's place is in the kitchen.
A.K.A., The Patriarchy.


Glass ceiling shattered = persecution of men


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funeralxempire
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03 Dec 2021, 10:12 am

QFT wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Because it's well documented phenomenon at this point.  Why do some people still pretend otherwise?
Because as long as they can deny the problem exists, they do not have to do anything about it.


I'm kind of specifically asking ironpony why he's denying the wage gap. Considering how firmly substantiated the idea is the burden is on those insisting it doesn't exist to present evidence for that position.


The answer is in the OP: he cited that official wages are the same.

And he isn't trying to argue "against" there being a wage gap. He is asking a "question" to "show him" where -- despite official numbers. Presumably once you show him, he will then believe. And some of the responders in fact gave him the answer which is good.

In the above quote you are asking him to simply belive something because its been repeated over and over without even asking how to substantiate. That kind of thing is common on both sides of two party system and I don't get why so many do that.


The thing is he's asked this question before and received solid answers, so why do it all over again unless the hope is to receive a different answer that's more aligned with his position that no wage gap exists?


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Fnord
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03 Dec 2021, 10:13 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Also, conservatives want to keep women down (especially women of color).

Proof:

1. Their war against abortion. Abortion should be unrestricted, on-demand, without apology, completely taxpayer-funded, and completely available during the third trimester.

2. Their voting for Donald Trump in 2016 simply because his opponent was a woman.

3. Their attacks on the Squad, of whom 5 of the 6 members are women, 5 of whom are people of color, and 2 of whom are Muslims, and their attacks on Kamala Harris (a woman of color)

4. Not allowing equal pay for equal work

5. Believing that a woman's place is in the kitchen.
A.K.A., The Patriarchy.
Glass ceiling shattered = persecution of men
... and to those accustomed to privilege, equality can feel like oppression.



katzhutte
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03 Dec 2021, 10:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
Doesn't exist in government or Universities.....


or The U.S. Soccer Federation :twisted: