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Sweetleaf
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11 Dec 2021, 4:40 am

We only want what our parents told us we'd have. They could afford an actual house on one income with one or the other being a stay-at-home parent. And me and my boyfriend a childless couple in our 30's even struggle to afford a two-bedroom apartment of our own.

Its like screw you, you as*holes....yeah we are so entitled with just wanting to easily afford an apartment. When you guys got freaking houses at our ages on just one income. Maybe we just want a piece of the pie, particularly that piece of pie you told us we could get and then yanked it back. I say rightfully entitled...where is our house affordable on one full time income huh? Where is it!

So quit telling us we are so entitled, when you could afford a bloody house on one income! yeah people in their 20's and 30's want better than we got, what is wrong with that?...the world is about to die of climate change anyways. Not sure where I am going with that, but just saying maybe the millenials are 'entitled' for a reason, we got the short end of the stick and we recognize it.


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FleaOfTheChill
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11 Dec 2021, 6:42 am

I agree.

I'm a gen-x-er, and there was a time when I was confused by millennials and wondered if you all were simply entitled. I have millennial children (two fall into that camp, two into the gen z camp). After graduation, I'd listen to my kids and their friends and entering the adult world was really hard and disappointing for them. A lot of them fell into pretty serious depressions once they graduated high school, but more so after graduating college. The original complaint was that they worked hard but didn't make the millions they were told they could make if only they applied themselves. I mistook that complaint for some unrealistic expectation that they would somehow become the one in a million to become famous or make billions or whatever. I misunderstood them. Yeah, they were bummed they weren't going to be successful to some great degree, but they were more so sad that despite years of hard work, they couldn't even afford a car, apartment, or even to be able to buy what they wanted at the grocery store. I get that now. I was wrong before, not quite getting the bigger picture. I suck like that sometimes.

Anyway... Why do you think that is? I'm not some economist or anything, I'm not the world's brightest person by any stretch of the imagination. But I do wonder about all of this. I wonder how much of it has to do with the age of retirement nowadays. It used to be that people would retire around 55 or 60. My grandparents did. But they were the greatest generation age range. My dad, a boomer, did not retire quite so early. A lot of his peers still work despite being early seventies. People in my age range generally all work...some being in their forties, other in their fifties. Mostly if it's a two-person household, both are working. They can't afford to retire and won't be doing so any time soon. That's a lot of older people still in the workforce and it doesn't leave much room for people in your age range to come in and take higher up positions that pay more. The people with seniority are still working those jobs. Not like was a problem before though...you used to be able to get a job that would still pay the bills even if it wasn't some high up position. Just wondering if that's part of the problem.

Then there's things like corporate greed. Why hire in newer/younger people and pay them a lot when you can pay them less and keep more money in the business or give it to higher up types. Why keep jobs state side when you can outsource and pay people tons less to do the same job... I dunno. I used to have uncles who worked in plants and could afford to support their families on vacations even. They could do that on their income alone. Now? I know a guy who works forty hours in a plant and has to live with his parents because he can't afford to make his truck payment to get to work and swing rent anywhere. It's crazy to me.

I know the cost of housing has skyrocketed, but that's a relatively new thing. It might be part of the issue right now, but that wasn't the case five/ten years ago.

Like I said, I don't know about any of this...I'm just talking out of my *ss here. I find the whole thing to be disturbing because of how normal/common it is. We have a huge portion of society now who can barely afford to live even if they are well trained, educated, qualified. I wonder why this is. What do you think the reason is?



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Sweetleaf
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11 Dec 2021, 7:33 am

FleaOfTheChill wrote:
I agree.

I'm a gen-x-er, and there was a time when I was confused by millennials and wondered if you all were simply entitled. I have millennial children (two fall into that camp, two into the gen z camp). After graduation, I'd listen to my kids and their friends and entering the adult world was really hard and disappointing for them. A lot of them fell into pretty serious depressions once they graduated high school, but more so after graduating college. The original complaint was that they worked hard but didn't make the millions they were told they could make if only they applied themselves. I mistook that complaint for some unrealistic expectation that they would somehow become the one in a million to become famous or make billions or whatever. I misunderstood them. Yeah, they were bummed they weren't going to be successful to some great degree, but they were more so sad that despite years of hard work, they couldn't even afford a car, apartment, or even to be able to buy what they wanted at the grocery store. I get that now. I was wrong before, not quite getting the bigger picture. I suck like that sometimes.

Anyway... Why do you think that is? I'm not some economist or anything, I'm not the world's brightest person by any stretch of the imagination. But I do wonder about all of this. I wonder how much of it has to do with the age of retirement nowadays. It used to be that people would retire around 55 or 60. My grandparents did. But they were the greatest generation age range. My dad, a boomer, did not retire quite so early. A lot of his peers still work despite being early seventies. People in my age range generally all work...some being in their forties, other in their fifties. Mostly if it's a two-person household, both are working. They can't afford to retire and won't be doing so any time soon. That's a lot of older people still in the workforce and it doesn't leave much room for people in your age range to come in and take higher up positions that pay more. The people with seniority are still working those jobs. Not like was a problem before though...you used to be able to get a job that would still pay the bills even if it wasn't some high up position. Just wondering if that's part of the problem.

Then there's things like corporate greed. Why hire in newer/younger people and pay them a lot when you can pay them less and keep more money in the business or give it to higher up types. Why keep jobs state side when you can outsource and pay people tons less to do the same job... I dunno. I used to have uncles who worked in plants and could afford to support their families on vacations even. They could do that on their income alone. Now? I know a guy who works forty hours in a plant and has to live with his parents because he can't afford to make his truck payment to get to work and swing rent anywhere. It's crazy to me.

I know the cost of housing has skyrocketed, but that's a relatively new thing. It might be part of the issue right now, but that wasn't the case five/ten years ago.

Like I said, I don't know about any of this...I'm just talking out of my *ss here. I find the whole thing to be disturbing because of how normal/common it is. We have a huge portion of society now who can barely afford to live even if they are well trained, educated, qualified. I wonder why this is. What do you think the reason is?


Well as for the reason, I think it is a lot of factors...like housing costs have gone up, but income hasn't really gone up. And I am no economicist and I suck at math so I am no expert on it. But yeah Idk it is confusing to me like I am not sure what the full problem is I just know it sucks. Because like my boyfriend does work hard, he's got a full time job and its hard work he does like tree care so he's gotta go into yards and such and spray trees to get rid of bugs and things. And last time my family had christmas dinner and my grandma was there she was saying how millennials just don't want to work and bla bla bla, my boyfriend held back at the time but later told me it really offended him because he works his ass off and to diminish it as just not trying is BS. Like its not a lack of trying its a lack of jobs paying enough to afford even an apartment.

LIke it just occurs to me me and my boyfriend are in our 30's and barely able to afford our apartment.

My parents on just my dads income(and he did not make a lot) were able to afford a town house like in their 20's when me and my siblings were little kids so they also had all the expenses that come with kids. And they could still afford that town-house me and my boyfriend are in our 30's and we were lucky to find a two bedroom apartment we could afford and we don't have kids so we don't even have expenses related to that. Just not sure how millennials with kids are affording housing these days, especially single parents it must be pretty tough right now.

But yeah its like we've been trying but it's not the world our parents grew up in...you can't just walk down the street asking for a job at every place, I mean you can but they will most likely direct you to the website or say they aren't hiring. And working hard apparently does not afford a millennial a place to live on their own, and somehow working harder also doesn't do it. Like I said it feels like we got thrown the short end of the stick and were told we are ingrates because we noticed the dregs of the barrel we got smell kind of bad.


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11 Dec 2021, 8:42 am

Those damn kids are so entitled, expecting wages to keep up with inflation and expecting to get to own homes and have kids within their lifetimes. Image


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kraftiekortie
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11 Dec 2021, 9:05 am

Trust me: the “Greatest Generation” felt the same about the Baby Boomers.

It’s really “old versus young” in most cases.

Those Gosh-Durn Young Whippersnappers!

I don’t buy into “generation characteristics.”



Mikah
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11 Dec 2021, 10:47 am

FleaOfTheChill wrote:
Anyway... Why do you think that is? I'm not some economist or anything, I'm not the world's brightest person by any stretch of the imagination. But I do wonder about all of this.


Sweetleaf wrote:
Well as for the reason, I think it is a lot of factors...like housing costs have gone up, but income hasn't really gone up. And I am no economicist and I suck at math so I am no expert on it. But yeah Idk it is confusing to me like I am not sure what the full problem is I just know it sucks.


I could go on forever about the whys and hows. If you'd like to understand the problem in its simplest form: it's globalisation. The opening up of global markets has more or less put workers globally within equal reach of capital holders. It is a slow levelling process, The global poor workers see benefits, at the expense of the global rich workers.

See my free trade thread for more on the big picture. Within the tsunami of globalisation there are other localised or related whirlpools of mad politics and policies regarding mass immigration, housing bubbles, taking out debt to pay trade deficits and Boomer pension liabilities all sucking the younger generations dry.


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naturalplastic
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11 Dec 2021, 10:58 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Trust me: the “Greatest Generation” felt the same about the Baby Boomers.

It’s really “old versus young” in most cases.

Those Gosh-Durn Young Whippersnappers!

I don’t buy into “generation characteristics.”


This.



QuantumChemist
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11 Dec 2021, 11:36 am

naturalplastic wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trust me: the “Greatest Generation” felt the same about the Baby Boomers.

It’s really “old versus young” in most cases.

Those Gosh-Durn Young Whippersnappers!

I don’t buy into “generation characteristics.”


This.


I agree. It happened over and over again every where I have worked. The young* want to push out the old and take their place in power/ownership. Someday it will happen to them and they will feel the same as the older ones who they themselves pushed out. This really will never end until humans become extinct.

* The one exception to this is the ones not paying enough attention with their heads constantly stuck in a phone screen, rather than paying attention to what they are supposed to be doing. This is not a generation specific issue, although I see a lot less older generations (60 years old and older) doing this behavior. Many of the visually distracted are destined to be self-nominated for a Darwin Award. I cannot tell you how many people I have seen either walk out in front of moving traffic while on their phones or were driving while distracted by their phones. I have even stopped a few from their own fates, even though sometimes I wander why I should. Who knew that our own technology could lead to our own demise? I did.



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11 Dec 2021, 12:54 pm

I didn't even know the term "millennial" until recently or even any other generational label for that matter.

I see people with a sense of entitlement across all ages.

I was nearly run over by and 80 year old man the other day. He was driving one of those electric scooters at top speed around the supermarket. He didn't give a s**t whether I was there or not. For me it was him who had a sense of entitlement.

But anyway I do believe that the young people should be entitled to get on the property ladder. Not only should they be entitled but they should also be actively encouraged through affordable housing and fair wages. Otherwise society as we know it will just go into reverse mode.



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11 Dec 2021, 1:41 pm

Hmmm...

I dont know if theyre into giving names to generations in the UK the way we Americans do.

The Brits didnt have a postwar "Baby Boom" the way the US did. So Brits my age wouldnt be called "Boomers".

Our postwar baby boom kinda set into motion the notion that you had name each generation.

Oddly there is one other country that names a generation that I know of, and its roughly the same generation as American Boomers. The country is India, and the term is "Midnight's Children" for people born around the time the country itself won independence in 1947. The name came from the 1980's novel by Salman Rushdie "Midnight's Child" about a guy born at the stroke of midnight of the first day of Independence- and it caused to him to have strange powers.



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11 Dec 2021, 1:42 pm

Despite being born in the 1980s, I don't identify as "Millenial". My generation's experience here is very different from the experience of people my age on the other side of the Atlantic.

My parents couldn't afford their own home until I was 10. They didn't dream of a car. They sometimes struggled to obtain basic food and clothing. And my dad is an engineer.

One day I realized how my parents lived when they were my age. I'm way more lucky than they were... and they were way more lucky than their parents who had to survive a war that wiped out 1/3 of the nation and then had to live in Stalinist regime.

With all the issues we're having, I'm living in exceptionally peaceful and prosperous period for the region.


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11 Dec 2021, 1:56 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Hmmm...

I dont know if theyre into giving names to generations in the UK the way we Americans do.

The Brits didnt have a postwar "Baby Boom" the way the US did. So Brits my age wouldnt be called "Boomers".

Our postwar baby boom kinda set into motion the notion that you had name each generation.

Oddly there is one other country that names a generation that I know of, and its roughly the same generation as American Boomers. The country is India, and the term is "Midnight's Children" for people born around the time the country itself won independence in 1947. The name came from the 1980's novel by Salman Rushdie "Midnight's Child" about a guy born at the stroke of midnight of the first day of Independence- and it caused to him to have strange powers.


Yes we do give names to generations here it's just that I hadn't taken any notice of it until recently. I'm generation x apparently. We're meant to be the generation that is most disaffected and directionless.



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11 Dec 2021, 3:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Trust me: the “Greatest Generation” felt the same about the Baby Boomers.

It’s really “old versus young” in most cases.

Those Gosh-Durn Young Whippersnappers!

I don’t buy into “generation characteristics.”

Most definitely
.
I heard versions of all of the below back in the day
"I went off war and did not question it. I worked to pay for their college and these ungrateful bastards are out there protesting, f*****g traitors, ruining everything we built."

"The only good hippie is a dead hippie".

"With their long hair and sloppy jeans, you can't tell if they are a boy or a girl"(Imagine what they think of non-binary people)

"We listened to real music, not that noise"

TV, rock music, fluoride in the water, the "permissive" teaching in Dr. Spock's massively popular baby-rearing books were all blamed.


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11 Dec 2021, 3:47 pm

I wish more people had a strong sense of entitlement to some things - such as a reasonable share in the goodies. If they did, maybe it would help to reverse the deterioration of ordinary people's living standards that we've been getting for the past 60 years or so. These days it's hard to imagine how good we had it back then, economically speaking.

Entitlement can be good or bad, depending on what a person feels entitled to, but it seems the word has been effectively hijacked as a pejorative. I gather there's a move among the US right wing to get the term applied to benefits claimants.



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11 Dec 2021, 3:50 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Most definitely
.
I heard versions of all of the below back in the day
"I went off war and did not question it. I worked to pay for their college and these ungrateful bastards are out there protesting, f*****g traitors, ruining everything we built."


"Ruin everything" is exactly what you did. You sold the family jewels, opened the borders, traded away the staid and the ancient for short term profit; pissed on and deliberately dismantled the culture and traditions that bore you; destroyed education, partied everything else away and pulled up the ladder behind you. They were right to call you out for what you were. Now the following generations are complaining about their ongoing impoverishment and the rootless miserable world sculpted by greedy Boomer hands, many of whom don't even accept they have ever set a foot wrong in their childish plan to start the world over again and the Boomers have the audacity to call Millennials feckless layabouts. It is not "just the same thing".


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Though here at journey's end I lie
in darkness buried deep,
beyond all towers strong and high,
beyond all mountains steep,
above all shadows rides the Sun
and Stars for ever dwell:
I will not say the Day is done,
nor bid the Stars farewell.