Putin's real aim is to restore his puppet Trump to power.

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MaxE
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11 Feb 2022, 8:10 am

His actions may seem foolish and irrational, but if you think of it that way, they make perfect sense.


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Brictoria
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11 Feb 2022, 8:32 am

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VegetableMan
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11 Feb 2022, 11:11 am

If Trump was Putin's puppet, he never would have bombed Syria.


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11 Feb 2022, 3:54 pm



MaxE
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11 Feb 2022, 6:37 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
If Trump was Putin's puppet, he never would have bombed Syria.

Well I don't recall when Trump bombed Syria or what reason was given.

When I said he was Putin's puppet I may not have used the right term, however what I meant is that Putin wants Trump in power because America is weak and unstable with him in charge and that fits in well with Putin's agenda. At present, it can be assumed that something bad will result from Putin's actions on the Ukraine border and Biden will get blamed, which is what Putin wants. I seriously doubt Putin cares what happened to whomever got bombed due to the action you referenced. He just wants to see Trump or his supporters back in power as soon as possible.

Before anyone else does, I will raise the issue that Biden also recently bombed Syria. Although I don't support what he did, it's still true that trying to weaken groups like ISIS by way of surgical strikes at their leaders is an accepted practice in the US Defense/Intelligence community and Biden may have felt some pressure to act on the intelligence he was given that an ISIS leader's "hideout" had been discovered. Of course I feel sorry about the people who died but in today's world it's probably a drop in the bucket anyway. Biden has not made radical changes in any sort of policy, in particular foreign policy, since being inaugurated. I won't praise him for what he did but I won't condemn him either as he more or less has to work with the advisers he's got.

There are plenty of people on WP willing to hate on Biden I don't need to contribute to that effort.


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Brictoria
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11 Feb 2022, 7:14 pm

It's interesting that Russia's attack on Ukraine (and annexation of the Crimea) occurred before Mr Trump was in power (I can't recall who was Vice President at the time), then Russia was quiet while Mr Trump was President. Yet once Mr Trump left power, Russia is again looking at Ukraine.

Logically, you would expect that with a "puppet" as President, that would be the best time for Mr Putin to attack a neighbouring country, rather than waiting for a time when the President was not his puppet...



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11 Feb 2022, 7:53 pm

MaxE wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
If Trump was Putin's puppet, he never would have bombed Syria.

Well I don't recall when Trump bombed Syria or what reason was given.

When I said he was Putin's puppet I may not have used the right term, however what I meant is that Putin wants Trump in power because America is weak and unstable with him in charge and that fits in well with Putin's agenda. At present, it can be assumed that something bad will result from Putin's actions on the Ukraine border and Biden will get blamed, which is what Putin wants. I seriously doubt Putin cares what happened to whomever got bombed due to the action you referenced. He just wants to see Trump or his supporters back in power as soon as possible.

Before anyone else does, I will raise the issue that Biden also recently bombed Syria. Although I don't support what he did, it's still true that trying to weaken groups like ISIS by way of surgical strikes at their leaders is an accepted practice in the US Defense/Intelligence community and Biden may have felt some pressure to act on the intelligence he was given that an ISIS leader's "hideout" had been discovered. Of course I feel sorry about the people who died but in today's world it's probably a drop in the bucket anyway. Biden has not made radical changes in any sort of policy, in particular foreign policy, since being inaugurated. I won't praise him for what he did but I won't condemn him either as he more or less has to work with the advisers he's got.

There are plenty of people on WP willing to hate on Biden I don't need to contribute to that effort.


Trump fired 59 tomahawk missles from US Navy ships at a Syrian airbase to punish Assad (the Syrian government side in the multisided Syrian civil war) for perpetrating an alleged poison gas attack on civilians. The fact that Trump attacked a client of Russia doesnt disprove that he was a puppet of Russia. He was attacking the client, Assad, not Russia itself. The Middle East is so complex that every action taken by every POTUS either angers more of our friends than our enemies, or helps our more of enemies than it helps our friends. We used to support the Kurds because they fought alongside us against our enemies (ISIS, Saddam Hussien), and the Kurdish minority is hated by the Iranian regime - a regime whom we have longstanding mutual hate. But the Kurds are ALSO hated by our longtime NATO ally Turkey, and they are also hated by the very Iraqi government we ourself installed to replace Saddam Hussien. Which is why Trump f****d over the Kurds (to simplify his dealings with Iraq and Turkey).

In the emerging "regional cold war in the middle east" between Iran and its allies and clients (on one side), and Saudi Arabia (in tacit alliance with Israel) and its allies on the other, Obama tried to be even handed. But (for better or worse)Trump broke with the even handed approach and threw in America's lot with the Saudi side against Iran. So when Trump attacked Assad it was probably directed against Iran, and certainly not deliberately against Russia. The fact that the Trump accidently stepped on the toes of his buddy Putin was just accidental collateral damage. Sorry boss. Thats the middle east for you.



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11 Feb 2022, 9:12 pm

IIRC, some Russian forces were at a base that was attacked. We knew the Russians were there but OMB didn't warn them off the attack.

Another contradiction of Putin installing Puppet OMB is the gas pipeline to Germany, Nord2. Trump opposed it while Biden removed the sanctions without getting anything in return for it. So Putin removed OMB for Biden and now that he has his pipeline, reinstall OMB? Where is the logic in that?



MaxE
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11 Feb 2022, 9:15 pm

txfz1 wrote:
IIRC, some Russian forces were at a base that was attacked. We knew the Russians were there but OMB didn't warn them off the attack.

Another contradiction of Putin installing Puppet OMB is the gas pipeline to Germany, Nord2. Trump opposed it while Biden removed the sanctions without getting anything in return for it. So Putin removed OMB for Biden and now that he has his pipeline, reinstall OMB? Where is the logic in that?

Russia benefits from Germany shutting down all its nuclear plants so that they are now dependent on Russian natural gas.


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11 Feb 2022, 9:28 pm

Kinda proves my point as Russia benefits from Biden and not OMB. Still crazier they are replacing carbon free with carbon dirty and the climate changers are happy with it?



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11 Feb 2022, 9:36 pm

txfz1 wrote:
Kinda proves my point as Russia benefits from Biden and not OMB. Still crazier they are replacing carbon free with carbon dirty and the climate changers are happy with it?

What is OMB? To my understanding, the Germans have been paranoid about nuclear energy since Chernobyl.


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12 Feb 2022, 10:56 am

MaxE wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
If Trump was Putin's puppet, he never would have bombed Syria.

Well I don't recall when Trump bombed Syria or what reason was given.

When I said he was Putin's puppet I may not have used the right term, however what I meant is that Putin wants Trump in power because America is weak and unstable with him in charge and that fits in well with Putin's agenda. At present, it can be assumed that something bad will result from Putin's actions on the Ukraine border and Biden will get blamed, which is what Putin wants. I seriously doubt Putin cares what happened to whomever got bombed due to the action you referenced. He just wants to see Trump or his supporters back in power as soon as possible.

Before anyone else does, I will raise the issue that Biden also recently bombed Syria. Although I don't support what he did, it's still true that trying to weaken groups like ISIS by way of surgical strikes at their leaders is an accepted practice in the US Defense/Intelligence community and Biden may have felt some pressure to act on the intelligence he was given that an ISIS leader's "hideout" had been discovered. Of course I feel sorry about the people who died but in today's world it's probably a drop in the bucket anyway. Biden has not made radical changes in any sort of policy, in particular foreign policy, since being inaugurated. I won't praise him for what he did but I won't condemn him either as he more or less has to work with the advisers he's got.

There are plenty of people on WP willing to hate on Biden I don't need to contribute to that effort.


Trump bombed Syria in 2018 after the alleged gas attack by Assad.

Anyway, we're basically discussing a conspiracy theory, since there is zero evidence for Russian collusion.


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MaxE
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12 Feb 2022, 11:11 am

VegetableMan wrote:
Anyway, we're basically discussing a conspiracy theory, since there is zero evidence for Russian collusion.

Ah the old "how dare you suggest the Russians had anything to do with it?" mantra!

I thought you hated Trump and Biden equally but from that comment it's clear to me on which side of the argument you would land if the chips were down.


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12 Feb 2022, 11:22 am

MaxE wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Anyway, we're basically discussing a conspiracy theory, since there is zero evidence for Russian collusion.

Ah the old "how dare you suggest the Russians had anything to do with it?" mantra!

I thought you hated Trump and Biden equally but from that comment it's clear to me on which side of the argument you would land if the chips were down.


I deal in reality, not conjecture for which there is no evidence. So, by your logic I must favor Trump because I didn't buy into the Russia malarkey.

Whether or not you realize it, your comment summed up what is wrong with our country.

Talking to hyperpartisans like yourself is like talking to members of a cult. There is little chance for a meaningful dialog.


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Last edited by VegetableMan on 12 Feb 2022, 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

MaxE
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12 Feb 2022, 11:30 am

VegetableMan wrote:
MaxE wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Anyway, we're basically discussing a conspiracy theory, since there is zero evidence for Russian collusion.

Ah the old "how dare you suggest the Russians had anything to do with it?" mantra!

I thought you hated Trump and Biden equally but from that comment it's clear to me on which side of the argument you would land if the chips were down.


I deal in reality, not conjecture for which there is no evidence. So, by your logic I must favor Trump because I didn't buy into the Russia malarkey.

Whether or not you realize it, your comment summed up what is wrong with our country.

Glad I was able to help, thanks!


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12 Feb 2022, 11:46 am

When Russia invaded Georgia, I saw an interview on TV with an American expatriate living in Russia. He said something like, "Don't be surprised in the coming years if you see Russian tanks rolling in to the Baltic states or other former Soviet republics."

I kept that in mind when Russia annexed the Crimea a few years later.

Putin is effectively a dictator. I don't think he gives a damn who is/isn't in the White House. He may hold off temporarily, but he's very much an expansionist. To say his actions and motives are driven solely by the who the American president is shows a gross misunderstanding or what's going on (and has been going on) in the Kremlin since Yeltsin's resignation.