Why I don't think there are "Xinjiang atrocities"?

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SkinnedWolf
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24 May 2022, 6:48 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton
Well... the "evidence" here comes from excerpts from public media in China.
Make up stories by relying on translations taken out of context.

Image
"military corps" is the abbreviation of the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps that went to Xinjiang in the early days of the founding of the People's Republic of China. The place of work later became a special administrative unit. This is the main agricultural area.
Nothing to do with militarization.

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"Mobilize" and "Organize". political term. The meaning is "encourage" and "arrange/provide support".
The last paragraph of the original Chinese text here compares picking cotton to panning for gold. Because picking cotton in China is quite a lucrative job. Ten years ago, during the cotton ripening season, there would be a special train to take farmers from the Central Plains to Xinjiang to pick cotton. This is seen as an opportunity to make money.

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The real meaning of the second paragraph: Focus on low-income families... Carry out a survey on the difficulties of workers who pick up cotton... Let those families who need to be transferred can be transferred... Workers whose physical fitness is not up to standard are not allowed to transfer.
Since no one will live in the cotton fields, the cotton picking season will require a train ride to work.


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SkinnedWolf
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24 May 2022, 7:02 pm

New evidence of China moving Uighur minority workers in order to uproot communities - BBC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mqga0a6H8I
Anyone who understands Chinese will see through it right away. needn't explain too much.
Check out the comment section if interested.


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SkinnedWolf
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24 May 2022, 7:15 pm

Chinese whistleblower exposes torture of Uyghur prisoners in CNN interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PjkwylN7q0 1:59
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The blue Chinese character on his epaulette is "公支".
But the correct spelling is "公安".

The actor has actually become a "witness" in more cases and has given some contradictory testimony.
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1UQ4y1S7Ea?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click


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SkinnedWolf
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24 May 2022, 8:15 pm

US State Department accusation of China ‘genocide’ relied on data abuse and baseless claims by far-right ideologue
digest:

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The Trump and Biden administrations have relied on the work of a right-wing religious extremist, Adrian Zenz, for their “genocide” accusation against China. A close review of Zenz’s research reveals flagrant data abuse and outright falsehoods.


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SkinnedWolf
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30 May 2022, 3:04 pm

According to a public opinion from a person familiar with the matter on the Chinese Internet:

China stopped providing Uyghur language education in public education after 2019, and stopped using non-Chinese college entrance examination papers.

This correspond to the grievance of a Uighur quoted earlier that "language is not respected."
This seems to have brought the Uyghur language to the same status as the Chinese dialect, ie, without official systematic education, but without restrictions on its use.

To be honest, I don't think it's a good idea to use non-Chinese in basic education either, given the language of research in China and the intensity of learning in public education.


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cyberdad
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30 May 2022, 4:17 pm

During the height of the cultural revolution did not Mao try to eradicate all memory of Buddhism and Buddhists in China? Why is it he did not do the same to the muslim Uygher back then?



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30 May 2022, 4:20 pm

^Because even during the Cultural Revolution, people were very cautious about ethnic minorities.
One charge in the final reckoning of the "culprits" of the Cultural Revolution was disrespect for ethnic minorities.


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cyberdad
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30 May 2022, 4:22 pm

SkinnedWolf wrote:
^Because even during the Cultural Revolution, people were very cautious about ethnic minorities.
One charge in the final reckoning of the "culprits" of the Cultural Revolution was disrespect for ethnic minorities.


Interesting! I am trying to pinpoint the moment ethno-nationalism of the Han emerged...it appears it was given oxygen in the late 1980s or perhaps early 1990s.



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30 May 2022, 4:30 pm

cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
^Because even during the Cultural Revolution, people were very cautious about ethnic minorities.
One charge in the final reckoning of the "culprits" of the Cultural Revolution was disrespect for ethnic minorities.


Interesting! I am trying to pinpoint the moment ethno-nationalism of the Han emerged...it appears it was given oxygen in the late 1980s or perhaps early 1990s.

Its "emerged" would be a very old history. And the Manchu Qing Dynasty undoubtedly intensified it.

Almost all Anti-Qing sentiment forces carry the banner of "ethno-nationalism of the Han".
There are also distinct traces of it in the revolutionaries of the late Qing Dynasty and the early Republic of China.

Rather, the Communist Party forcibly suppressed it. After less communism, it started to appear slowly. But it still hasn't become common.


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cyberdad
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30 May 2022, 4:50 pm

SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
^Because even during the Cultural Revolution, people were very cautious about ethnic minorities.
One charge in the final reckoning of the "culprits" of the Cultural Revolution was disrespect for ethnic minorities.


Interesting! I am trying to pinpoint the moment ethno-nationalism of the Han emerged...it appears it was given oxygen in the late 1980s or perhaps early 1990s.

Its "emerged" would be a very old history. And the Manchu Qing Dynasty undoubtedly intensified it.

Almost all Anti-Qing sentiment forces carry the banner of "ethno-nationalism of the Han".
There are also distinct traces of it in the revolutionaries of the late Qing Dynasty and the early Republic of China.

Rather, the Communist Party forcibly suppressed it. After less communism, it started to appear slowly. But it still hasn't become common.


Yes, this makes sense. I was wandering through a shopping centre in a predominantly Chinese area last night with my daughter (the shopping area is 90% chinese) and it occurred to me how nice it is have clear identity among your own people. There is something quite organic and comfortable about being among your own. I have to admit I have never felt this.



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08 Jun 2022, 8:59 pm

Statement by UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet after official visit to China
From United Nations

Quote:
Violent acts of extremism have a terrible, serious impact on the lives of victims, including those tasked to protect the community. But it is critical that counter-terrorism responses do not result in human rights violations. The application of relevant laws and policies, and any mandatory measures imposed on individuals, need to be subject to independent judicial oversight, with greater transparency of judicial proceedings. All victims must be able to seek redress.

In the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, I have raised questions and concerns about the application of counter-terrorism and de-radicalisation measures and their broad application – particularly their impact on the rights of Uyghurs and other predominantly Muslim minorities. While I am unable to assess the full scale of the VETCs, I raised with the Government the lack of independent judicial oversight of the operation of the program, the reliance by law enforcement officials on 15 indicators to determine tendencies towards violent extremism, allegations of the use of force and ill treatment in institutions, and reports of unduly severe restrictions on legitimate religious practices. During my visit, the Government assured me that the VETC system has been dismantled. I encouraged the Government to undertake a review of all counter terrorism and deradicalization policies to ensure they fully comply with international human rights standards, and in particular that they are not applied in an arbitrary and discriminatory way.


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cyberdad
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09 Jun 2022, 2:00 am

Would it be fair to say that news sources from China are suspect?



SkinnedWolf
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09 Jun 2022, 2:06 am

cyberdad wrote:
Would it be fair to say that news sources from China are suspect?

It depends on what event you want to talk about. And what media/we-media you chose. When it seems to promote a profitable narrative, it needs to be examined more carefully before it can be added to the database.
I actually think all news are suspect. But I will try to look for enough hedging reports and check the original source. Or ask/follow a living insider/resident.


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cyberdad
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09 Jun 2022, 2:14 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Would it be fair to say that news sources from China are suspect?

It depends on what event you want to talk about. And what media/we-media you chose. When it seems to promote a profitable narrative, it needs to be examined more carefully before it can be added to the database.
I actually think all news are suspect. But I will try to look for enough hedging reports and check the original source. Or ask/follow a living insider/resident.


It must be difficult for a Chinese news outlet in China to be independent.



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09 Jun 2022, 2:23 am

cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Would it be fair to say that news sources from China are suspect?

It depends on what event you want to talk about. And what media/we-media you chose. When it seems to promote a profitable narrative, it needs to be examined more carefully before it can be added to the database.
I actually think all news are suspect. But I will try to look for enough hedging reports and check the original source. Or ask/follow a living insider/resident.


It must be difficult for a Chinese news outlet in China to be independent.

There is a faction of the official media keen to expose negative events and even blame the official. They used to be quite progressive and high-quality (Their representative: Southern Metropolis Daily), but after the decline of paper media, they began to become delibratelly exagerate so as to create a sensation.

In the past 10 years, there have been problems in the treatment of China's entire news industry, so that the best investigators have left the industry, regardless of their political positions.

In addition, there are active we media. They may hold their own political positions. Those who are anti establishment may be more obscure in narration to ensure that the content can be preserved on the network. But they still exist. It takes experience to identify which of them are high-quality sources of information.

But I actually hardly watch the "news". I am mainly concerned about the controversial events in the community. It is easier to find different perspectives on these events there.
And, to be honest, I think in the mainstream media, the part of involving ideology, it may be as bad as everyone else. At least we generally think that Chinese state media messages are too biased/selective, but are using facts.


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SkinnedWolf
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20 Jun 2022, 6:17 am

Found something interesting.
Joining the fight against Isis would be a huge test for China

Quote:
“So it is far from evident what China could offer militarily if it joined the anti-Isis coalition. Equally, it is hard to see the US or west Europe accepting money, the usual principal ingredient of Chinese collaboration – taking subsidies from Beijing for the fight against terrorism hardly seems politically palatable. But there is a strong reason why the People’s Republic will want to keep involved, in the form of its long-running struggle against Uighur Muslims in its huge western territory of Xinjiang. Beijing insists that the recurrent violence there is the work of fundamentalists and extremist agents crossing from the republics of central Asia.

Heavy security measures have failed to stop the attacks, which have taken scores of lives this year. Last week, Chinese state media reported that security forces had killed 28 alleged members of a group accused of slaying 16 people on an attack on a Xinjiang coal mine. This followed a series of assaults in recent years blamed on Uighur extremists, including the deaths of 33 people at a railway station in south-west China at the hands of knife-wielding assailants in 2014. Beijing says that Uighurs have joined Isis in the Middle East and that 200 of them arrested in Thailand last year, half of whom were subsequently sent home, were heading for Syria, but no evidence of this has been made public.

Isis Uighurs threaten ‘rivers of blood’ in China
Quote:
A gruesome Isis video depicting Uighur fighters in Iraq calling for attacks on China has raised concern that the Asian nation could become a target for jihadist groups, even as Beijing stages mass military manoeuvres designed to quell separatist sentiment in the restive frontier region of Xinjiang.

The graphic video denouncing ‘evil Chinese communist infidel lackeys’ came from the Iraqi arm of the militant group, according to Site, a US-based company that tracks jihadis and white supremacist activities online. Reuters, which first reported on the video, independently confirmed the translation.

AP Exclusive: Uighurs fighting in Syria take aim at China
Quote:
Since 2013, thousands of Uighurs, a Turkic-speaking Muslim minority from western China, have traveled to Syria to train with the Uighur militant group Turkistan Islamic Party and fight alongside al-Qaida, playing key roles in several battles. Syrian President Bashar Assad’s troops are now clashing with Uighur fighters as the six-year conflict nears its endgame.


China’s proxy war in Syria: Revealing the role of Uighur fighters
Quote:
The Uighur militants had reportedly moved into Syria following a Chinese-backed Pakistani campaign against their bases on the borders with Afghanistan. The Pakistani military claimed they had assassinated the group’s leader, Abdul Haq, in 2010. The Pakistani Defense minister went further during a visit to China last year, to declare the al-Qaeda linked group members have either been killed, or have left Afghanistan somehow.

Only a few years ago, Uighur fighters' activities in other countries were accused of waging proxy wars for China. :lmao:
At any one time, did they really ask about the self-identity of the objects they depicted?

Uighur Extremists Joining ISIS Poses a Security and Economic Headache for China’s Xi Jinping
Quote:
The report would seem to confirm what has long been suspected — those slick ISIS recruitment videos have struck a cord in Xinjiang. Uighur militants have historically been drawn to holy wars, previously in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and now Syria, Iraq and Turkey. Uighur extremists have also used bloody tactics to agitate for greater autonomy domestically. Following a spate of bus bombings and attempted plane hijackings in the 1990s and 2000s, in October 2013 a blazing car was driven into Beijing’s iconic Tiananmen Square — the birthplace of the People’s Republic — in an attack that killed five and injured dozens. On March 1, 2014, eight knife-wielding assailants ran amok at Kunming’s train station in Yunnan province, leaving 29 civilians and 4 perpetrators dead.

The Growing Importance of Global Islamic Extremism to China
Quote:
The third and most recent phase, beginning in 2014 and continuing until today, is domestically associated with incidents such as the March 2014 incident, when a group of Uighurs killed 33 people at a railway station in Kunming, Yunnan province.Notably, the attack was followed by a declaration that jihad attacks are planned for other locations in China as well, a break from the typical focus on separatism in Xinjiang. On the international level, this phase is associated with the rise of ISIS and its proclamation of the Caliphate. While China has traditionally been threatened by a predominately domestic separatist movement, it appears that the war in Syria and the global influence and attention of the Islamic State has given China’s domestic terror groups the opportunity to expand and network with other groups in China’s regional neighbors.

Before 2009, any link between Uighur separatists and the al-Qaeda network was questionable. However, following the 2009 Guangdong incident and subsequent disturbance, al-Qaeda took notice of China and threatened the nation for what may be the first time…

The declaration of the Caliphate by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in 2014 … names multiple nations as enemies, including China. Subsequent issues of Dabiq and its successor magazine, Rumiyah, were released in the Uighur language…

Additionally, al-Qaeda followed the Islamic State announcement with its own condemnation of China in its magazine Resurgence. This threat may be more significant to China because the Turkestan Islamic Party is now believed to have stronger links to al-Qaeda and China is becoming increasingly concerned with connections between its Uighur populations and radical groups in its Central Asian neighbors.

Uighur leaders and spokesmen fear this propaganda which, along with other tactics, may be working. As Uighurs are under immense pressure to exit China, they may be persuaded or tricked into joining a radical Islamic group. One Uighur activist, Seyit Tumturk, stated in an interview at the end of 2017, ‘We (Uighurs) are losing the de-radicalization battle.’ Uighur community representatives in Turkey also state that some of those who have left China are being enticed by Uighur members of the Islamic State into joining the militant group and travelling to Syria…

I won't say that all the reports are accurate. But it is very interesting to see how the media narration swings with the change of national strategy. Is there any difference between this and "CCP mouthpiece"?
The lack of a lot of information does not come from an "opaque China"(so that some Westerners think that the Chinese live in North Korea) implied in the narrative, but is deliberately concealed. They knew it from the beginning.

The victims of terrorism, the Chinese, including the peaceful Uighurs, have not received even equal sympathy. The "Uighurs whom some people need", whether purely geopolitical or because they look whiter, have received so much attention.
Or Uighurs are just some kind of prop whose voice has been erased - it is not difficult to interview a random Uighur. I am sure I have read Uighur complaints about how religious extremists suppress them to express their own culture.

The time has come to test whether "equality" is a political demand or a real demand.
When systematic racism occurs at the international level rather than within a country, will it be accuse?


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