Why I don't think there are "Xinjiang atrocities"?

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SkinnedWolf
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21 Jun 2022, 2:20 am

Patterns of Global Terrorism 2001 Annual Report from the US State Department

Quote:
China has expressed concern that Islamic extremists operating in and around the Xinjiang-Uighur Autonomous Region who are opposed to Chinese rule received training, equipment, and inspiration from al-Qaida, the Taliban, and other extremists in President George W. Bush and Chinese President Jiang Zemin hold a joint news conference following their meeting in Beijing, 21 February 2002.
Afghanistan and elsewhere. Several press reports claimed that Uighurs trained and fought with Islamic groups in the former Soviet Union, including Chechnya.
...
Uighurs were found fighting with al-Qaida in Afghanistan. We are aware of credible reports that some Uighurs who were trained by al-Qaida have returned to China.

Then, suddenly, the United States believed that East Turkestan was no longer a terrorist organization or no longer exists.
Why didn't the United States use the same magic on war on terror to directly make other terrorist organizations disappear?
U.S. Forces Strike Taliban, East Turkestan Islamic Movement Training Sites
Quote:
During the past weekend, U.S. forces conducted air operations to strike Taliban and the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, or ETIM, training facilities in Afghanistan’s Badakhshan province, the commander of NATO air operations in Afghanistan said today.

Pentagon report 2018. The US army bombed the base of a terrorist organization which would miraculously disappear by itself in two years?


https://web.archive.org/web/20100803024638/http://www.cfr.org/publication/9179/east_turkestan_islamic_movement_etim.html
Quote:
The State Department reports that the ETIM has received “training and funding” from Osama bin Laden’s terror network and that ETIM militants fought in the ranks of al-Qaeda against the United States in the Operation Enduring Freedom.
U.S. officials are said to have gathered information about Uighur militants linked to al-Qaeda from twenty-two Uighurs captured in Afghanistan and detained at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Five of the detainees were released in 2006 and were accepted by Albania instead of repatriating to China.

Have these Uighurs be fully guaranteed their human rights in U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba?


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SkinnedWolf
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21 Jun 2022, 2:50 am

White Paper on Anti-Terrorism,De-extremism,and Human Rights Guarantee in Xinjiang
Monday, March 18, 2019, 15:20

I certainly wouldn't say that everything released by the Chinese government is honest. Fighting that actually is my main activity.
But are they more untrustworthy than the US government?

III. Violent Terrorism and Religious Extremism Are Grave Abuses of Human Rights
The detailed report on terrorist activities seems to correspond to the frame of the documentary in my OP.

Quote:
Terrorist and extremist forces in Xinjiang, driven by the goal of separatism, engaged in wildly sabotaging activities. This badly undermines local stability and brings enormous suffering to all ethnic groups in the region. Incomplete statistics show that from 1990 to the end of 2016, separatist, terrorist and extremist forces launched thousands of terrorist attacks in Xinjiang, killing large numbers of innocent people and hundreds of police officers, and causing immeasurable damage to property.

Killing ordinary people. On February 5, 1992, while the whole of China was celebrating the Spring Festival, a terrorist group planted bombs on a No. 52 and a No. 30 bus in Urumqi, blowing up the 2 buses, killing 3 people and injuring 23 others. On February 25, 1997, “East Turkistan” terrorists caused explosions on a No. 2, a No. 10 and a No. 44 bus in Urumqi, destroying the 3 buses, killing 9 and causing serious injury to 68. On July 30, 2011, two terrorists hijacked a truck at the junction of a food street in Kashgar City, stabbed the driver to death, drove the truck into the crowd, and then attacked the public with their knives. In this incident, 8 were killed and 27 injured. The next day, knife-wielding terrorists randomly attacked pedestrians on Xiangxie Street, Renmin West Road, killing 6 and injuring 15. On February 28, 2012, nine knife-wielding terrorists attacked civilians on Xingfu Road, Yecheng County, Kashgar Prefecture, resulting in 15 deaths and 20 injuries. On March 1, 2014, eight knife-wielding Xinjiang terrorists attacked passengers at the Kunming Railway Station Square and the ticket lobby, leaving 31 dead and 141 injured. On April 30, 2014, two terrorists hid in the crowd at the exit of Urumqi Railway Station. One attacked people with his knife and the other detonated a device inside his suitcase, killing 3 and injuring 79. On May 22, 2014, five terrorists drove two SUVs through the fence of the morning fair of North Park Road of Saybagh District, Urumqi, into the crowd, and then detonated a bomb, claiming the life of 39 and leaving 94 injured. On September 18, 2015, terrorists attacked a coal mine in Baicheng County, Aksu Prefecture, causing 16 deaths and 18 injuries.

Assassinating religious leaders. On August 24, 1993, two terrorists stabbed Senior Mullah Abulizi, imam of the Great Mosque in Yecheng County, Kashgar Prefecture, leaving him seriously wounded. On March 22, 1996, two masked terrorists broke into the house of Akemusidike Aji, vice president of the Islamic Association of Xinhe County, Aksu Prefecture, and assistant imam of a mosque, and shot him dead. On May 12, 1996, Aronghan Aji, vice president of the China Islamic Association and president of Xinjiang Islamic Association, and hatip of Id Kah Mosque in Kashgar was stabbed 21 times by four terrorists on his way to a mosque and seriously wounded. On November 6, 1997, a terrorist group, under the command of the “East Turkistan” organization stationed abroad, shot and killed Senior Mullah Younusi Sidike, member of the China Islamic Association, president of Aksu Islamic Association and imam of the Great Mosque of Baicheng County, on his way to the mosque for worship. On January 27, 1998, this same group shot and killed Abulizi Aji, imam of the Great Mosque of Baicheng County on his way to the mosque for worship. On July 30, 2014, the 74-year-old Senior Mullah Juma Tayier, vice president of Xinjiang Islamic Association and imam of the Id Kah Mosque, was brutally killed by three terrorists on his way home after morning Fajr prayer.

Endangering public security. On May 23, 1998, the East Turkistan Liberation Organization dispatched trained terrorists from abroad into Xinjiang who placed more than 40 incendiary devices with self-ignition equipment in crowded places such as shopping malls, wholesale markets and hotels in Urumqi, resulting in 15 arson cases. On March 7, 2008, terrorists carried a disguised explosive device that could cause catastrophic crash onto Flight CZ6901 from Urumqi to Beijing, intending to blow up the plane. On June 29, 2012, six terrorists attempted to hijack Flight GS7554 from Hotan to Urumqi following the example of the September 11 attacks. On October 28, 2013, three Xinjiang terrorists drove a jeep carrying 31 barrels of gasoline, 20 ignitors, 5 knives, and several iron bars onto the sidewalk on the east of Tiananmen Square in central Beijing and accelerated it towards tourists and policemen on duty, until it crashed into the barrier of the Golden Water Bridge. They then ignited the gasoline to set the jeep on fire, resulting in deaths of 2 people including 1 foreigner and injuries to over 40.

Attacking government organs. On August 27, 1996, six terrorists drove to the seat of Jianggelesi Township government, Yecheng County, Kashgar Prefecture, cut the telephone line, and killed a deputy township head and a policeman on duty. They then kidnapped three security men and a plumber, drove them to the desert ten kilometers away, and killed them. On October 24, 1999, a group of terrorists armed with guns, knives, and explosive devices attacked a police station in Saili Township, Zepu County, Kashgar Prefecture. They threw incendiary bottles and explosive devices at the station, shot dead a public security guard and a criminal suspect in custody, injured a policeman and a public security guard, and burned 10 rooms, 1 jeep and 3 motorcycles in the police station. On August 4, 2008, terrorists drove a stolen dump truck into the back of a queue of armed frontier police at drill on Seman Road, Kashgar City, and threw homemade grenades, leaving 16 dead and 16 injured. On April 23, 2013, when terrorists were found making explosives at their home in Selibuya Town, Bachu County, Kashgar Prefecture by three visiting community workers, they killed them on the spot and then attacked local government staff and police coming to their rescue, resulting in 15 deaths and 2 severely injured. On June 26, 2013, terrorists launched attacks at the police station, patrol squadron, seat of local government and construction sites of Lukeqin Township, Shanshan County, Turpan Prefecture, resulting in 24 deaths and 25 injuries. On July 28, 2014, terrorists with knives and axes attacked the government building and police station of Ailixihu Town, Shache County, Kashgar Prefecture. Some then moved on to Huangdi Town where they attacked civilians and smashed and burned passing vehicles, causing 37 deaths and 13 injuries and destroying 31 vehicles. On September 21, 2014, the police station and farmer’s market of Yangxia Town, the police station of Tierekebazha Town, and a store at the Luntai county seat, Bayingol Mongolian Autonomous Prefecture were hit by bomb blasts which claimed the life of 10, caused injuries to 54 and damaged 79 vehicles. On December 28, 2016, four terrorists drove into the courtyard of Moyu County government, Hotan Prefecture, detonated a homemade explosive device, and attacked government staff, leaving 2 dead and 3 injured.

Planning riots. On April 5, 1990, incited by the East Turkistan Islamic Party (also known as Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement, East Turkistan Islamic Party of Allah, East Turkistan Islamic Hezbollah), a group of terrorists with submachine guns, pistols, explosive devices and grenades, mustered over 200 people to attack the government building of Baren Township, Akto County, Kizilsu Kirgiz Autonomous Prefecture, kidnapping 10 people, killing 6 armed police officers, and blowing up 2 vehicles. From February 5 to 8, 1997, this organization again perpetrated the Yining Incident. In the riots 7 people were killed and 198 injured, including civilians, public security officers and armed police officers, 64 of whom were severely wounded; more than 30 vehicles were damaged and 2 houses were burned down. On July 5, 2009, the “East Turkistan” forces inside and outside China engineered a riot in Urumqi which shocked the whole world. Thousands of terrorists attacked civilians, government organs, public security and police officers, residential houses, stores and public transportation facilities, causing 197 deaths and injuries to over 1,700, smashing and burning down 331 stores and 1,325 vehicles, and damaging many public facilities.

The violent crimes committed by terrorists are bloody and heinous. These inhuman, anti-social and barbaric acts have brought enormous suffering to all ethnic groups in Xinjiang.

IV. Striking at Terrorism and Extremism in Accordance with the Law
Quote:
Since 2014, Xinjiang has destroyed 1,588 violent and terrorist gangs, arrested 12,995 terrorists, seized 2,052 explosive devices, punished 30,645 people for 4,858 illegal religious activities, and confiscated 345,229 copies of illegal religious materials.

The Chinese government has publicly acknowledged that more than 10000 Uygur/Kazak/other ethnic individuals have been arrested for some reason and interference with some form of religion in 2019 or maybe even earlier.
If these data are true, is this far less than the damage caused by the "war on terror" of the United States?

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/papers/summary
Quote:
SUMMARY OF FINDINGS
Some of the Costs of War Project’s main findings include:

At least 929,000 people have died due to direct war violence, including armed forces on all sides of the conflicts, contractors, civilians, journalists, and humanitarian workers.

Many times more have died indirectly in these wars, due to ripple effects like malnutrition, damaged infrastructure, and environmental degradation.

Over 387,000 civilians have been killed in direct violence by all parties to these conflicts.

Over 7,050 U.S. soldiers have died in the wars.

We do not know the full extent of how many U.S. service members returning from these wars became injured or ill while deployed.

Many deaths and injuries among U.S. contractors have not been reported as required by law, but it is likely that approximately 8,000 have been killed.

38 million people have been displaced by the post-9/11 wars in Afghanstan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and the Philippines.

The U.S. government is conducting counterterror activities in 85 countries, vastly expanding this war across the globe.

The post-9/11 wars have contributed significantly to climate change. The Defense Department is one of the world’s top greenhouse gas emitters.
The wars have been accompanied by erosions in civil liberties and human rights at home and abroad.

The human and economic costs of these wars will continue for decades with some costs, such as the financial costs of U.S. veterans’ care, not peaking until mid-century.

Most U.S. government funding of reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan has gone towards arming security forces in both countries. Much of the money allocated to humanitarian relief and rebuilding civil society has been lost to fraud, waste, and abuse.

The cost of the post-9/11 wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, and elsewhere totals about $8 trillion. This does not include future interest costs on borrowing for the wars.

The ripple effects on the U.S. economy have also been significant, including job loss and interest rate increases.

U.S. policymakers scarcely considered alternatives to war in the aftermath of 9/11 or in debating the invasion of Iraq. Some of those alternative paradigms for addressing the problem of terror attacks are still available to the U.S.


Um...But China's official media has been cancelled by major western social media. So "China has been lying", hasn't it?
I am not a fan of the great firewall (it has brought me a lot of trouble and financial burden), but I would say that "network sovereignty" is reasonable.
You should have the right to quit a game in which you have not been able to fight back and have been bullied.
This is not only because the Chinese government is tired of this information hegemony. (I would say that sometimes they almost ridiculously give up the struggle. So that they became more obsessed with making internal noise about 6 years ago.) The same goes for ordinary Chinese who are active in external networks.


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Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 21 Jun 2022, 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

SkinnedWolf
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21 Jun 2022, 3:52 am

Let's check the third party organization. In 2015, worldbank provided loans to "Xinjiang concentration camp".
Such a shock. So what did worldbank do after the truth about these evil facilities was revealed?
World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China

Quote:
WASHINGTON, November 11, 2019 — The World Bank today released the following statement on its recently concluded review of a project in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, China:

“The World Bank’s work is driven by core principles of inclusion, with special consideration for the protection of minorities and other vulnerable peoples. When allegations are made, the World Bank takes them seriously and reviews them thoroughly. In line with standard practice, immediately after receiving a series of serious allegations in August 2019 in connection with the Xinjiang Technical and Vocational Education and Training Project, the Bank launched a fact-finding review, and World Bank senior managers traveled to Xinjiang to gather information directly. After receiving the allegations, no disbursements were made on the project.

The team conducted a thorough review of project documents, engaged in discussions with project staff, and visited schools directly financed by the project, as well as their partner schools that were the subject of allegations. The review did not substantiate the allegations.

In light of the risks associated with the partner schools, which are widely dispersed and difficult to monitor, the scope and footprint of the project is being reduced. Specifically, the project component that involves the partner schools in Xinjiang is being closed.

In addition, the project will be placed under enhanced supervision to ensure that all applicable Bank standards are adhered to. To further support project supervision, a Washington-based international staff member will co-lead the project, and every second project visit will be led by a senior manager.”

Strange. Isn't Xinjiang a place so tightly controlled that even CIA agents can't visit it? So that the relevant allegations can only be supported by oral testimony, satellite images and public information on the Chinese network.

Is there a special collusion between worldbank and the CCP, just like the United Nations?


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Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 21 Jun 2022, 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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21 Jun 2022, 5:27 am


The actual time of this speech is 2018, not 2020. The number of Uighurs mentioned twice was wrong. Moreover, I don't know the proportion, but I'm sure a large number of Uighurs don't hate other ethnic groups / Han people.
However, it can be used as a reference.


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SkinnedWolf
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21 Jun 2022, 4:17 pm


Quote:
A source told RFA that Chinese authorities forced Uyghurs to celebrate the Muslim holiday to show that Uyghurs enjoy religious freedom.

The original tag of the video indicates that they are some Tiktok videos.
Didn't Radio Free Asia receive enough funds? :scratch:


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22 Jun 2022, 12:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
^Because even during the Cultural Revolution, people were very cautious about ethnic minorities.
One charge in the final reckoning of the "culprits" of the Cultural Revolution was disrespect for ethnic minorities.


Interesting! I am trying to pinpoint the moment ethno-nationalism of the Han emerged...it appears it was given oxygen in the late 1980s or perhaps early 1990s.

What a silly question.

Obviously during...the Han Dynasty ( circa 200 BC to 200 AD). The first dynasty to rule a unified China. Which is why "Han Chinese" are called that. :lol:

Thats when they started to be self consciously nationalistic.

Youre thinking "Ronald Reagan", when you should be thinking "Julius Ceasar", in the kind of time depth. :lol:



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22 Jun 2022, 12:52 am

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
^Because even during the Cultural Revolution, people were very cautious about ethnic minorities.
One charge in the final reckoning of the "culprits" of the Cultural Revolution was disrespect for ethnic minorities.


Interesting! I am trying to pinpoint the moment ethno-nationalism of the Han emerged...it appears it was given oxygen in the late 1980s or perhaps early 1990s.

What a silly question.

Obviously during...the Han Dynasty ( circa 200 BC to 200 AD). The first dynasty to rule a unified China. Which is why "Han Chinese" are called that. :lol:

Thats when they started to be self consciously nationalistic.

Youre thinking "Ronald Reagan", when you should be thinking "Julius Ceasar", in the kind of time depth. :lol:

I would say that this is a very complicated problem.

Because the strict definition of "nationalism" is European centered. Even "country" is.
East Asia had its own logic until the West began to reshape order in East Asia.

The position of China (PRC and POC) is the common identity of five (or more) ethnic groups, so "nationalism" is only used to describe "Chinese nationalism", and it is believed that it first appeared in early 20th century., through contact with Western ideas.

Can some kind of Han-ethnocentrism before this well meet the definition of "nationalism" described in Europe? This can be subtle.
Because in the system of 家国天下 in ancient China, it seems that the existence of other "countries" is not recognized. Relations between countries familiar to Europe ended in the Qin Dynasty (221BC) in China. All the concepts produced here will deviate from those used to describe 19th century Europe.
Throughout the period of the Chinese Empire, the main ethnic group (although not necessarily the ruling ethnic group) did not mind living under the same regime as other ethnic groups.

If we believe that nationalism arises from ethnic identification and systematic oppression, the Yuan and Qing Dynasties will give this stimulus to the Han people. But since the concept is not strictly corresponding, here is a mosaic.

According to the most extensive theory, if we think that Sun Yat Sen's "expel Manchu and restore China"/驱除鞑虏,恢复中华 in 1905 is a typical declaration of nationalism, Chinese / Han nationalism appeared in the anti Qing and anti colonial struggle in the early-20th century.
So why is it that in the original version of this sentence, Zhu Yuanzhang's proposal to "expel Northern barbarians and restore China"/驱除胡虏,恢复中华 when he tried to overthrow the Yuan Dynasty and found the Ming Dynasty is not nationalism? That would be in the mid-14th century. But this is only my personal opinion.


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naturalplastic
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22 Jun 2022, 1:51 am

True. The Han Chinese have been a distinct group for thousands of years.

But east asians didnt really have "nationalism" in the European sense until the 20th Century. Europeans themselves didnt become hyperobsessed with their own nationalism until the 19th century.

What cyber might not understand is that the history of China during the first half of the 20th century was all about fighting for control of just one quarter of the land mass of China. The core 36 provinces of "China Proper" were fought over from 1911 until 1949. Fought over because China was in a civil war between the Communists and the Nationalist at the same time both sides of the civil war were fighting the invading Japanese. The remaining thinly populated outlying three fourths of China, inhabited by minorities, were not controlled at all by any central Chinese govt. Only when one side (the Communist) won, and China proper became united was a Chinese central government able reassert rule over the outlying three fourths of China. Soon after 1949 Mao sent armies against Uighur rebels in the northeast, and soon after that he invaded and conquered Tibet. So I would say that that was when the modern tensions between the Han and minorities started.



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22 Jun 2022, 2:08 am

naturalplastic wrote:
True. The Han Chinese have been a distinct group for thousands of years.

But east asians didnt really have "nationalism" in the European sense until the 20th Century. Europeans themselves didnt become hyperobsessed with their own nationalism until the 19th century.

What cyber might not understand is that the history of China during the first half of the 20th century was all about fighting for control of just one quarter of the land mass of China. The core 36 provinces of "China Proper" were fought over from 1911 until 1949. Fought over because China was in a civil war between the Communists and the Nationalist at the same time both sides of the civil war were fighting the invading Japanese. The remaining thinly populated outlying three fourths of China, inhabited by minorities, were not controlled at all by any central Chinese govt. Only when one side (the Communist) won, and China proper became united was a Chinese central government able reassert rule over the outlying three fourths of China. Soon after 1949 Mao sent armies against Uighur rebels in the northeast, and soon after that he invaded and conquered Tibet. So I would say that that was when the modern tensions between the Han and minorities started.

Tibet is a complicated issue.
https://labouraffairsmagazine.com/m-articles-by-topic/m99-topic-menus-from-long-revolution-website/42-china/tibet/why-the-west-should-not-be-encouraging-tibetan-separatism/
I don't want to promote this political views here, because I don't care about the legal issues in Tibet.
However, the long history of Tibet and the central government is systematically introduced here.

The relationship between Han and ethnic minorities is another complex issue. Different ethnic minorities have very different experiences.

"Driving Away Miao and Founding Family Property"/赶苗拓业 began in the Ming Dynasty, which is 100% of the atrocities that will be attributed to the Han people.

The Han people have been fighting against various nomads in the north since ancient times.
Except for the Three Kingdoms period, almost every disunion Dynasty and the Yuan and Qing Dynastiesin Chinese history can be attributed to the nomads going south.

However, more ethnic minorities have implemented the 土司 system since the Yuan Dynasty.
In this case, a ethnic minority has their own king, and the king is subordinate to the emperor. Although they had no European style feudal obligations.
Than ethnic minorities and Han people will certainly have some cultural conflicts, but rarely fierce hatred. They may be a military ally of the Han/Central Dynasty.


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22 Jun 2022, 5:44 am

Imam's killing in China may be aimed at making Muslim Uighurs choose sides AUGUST 1, 2014

Quote:
The murder of a state-backed imam in China’s Xinjiang region underscores an escalation in 18 months of violence and could be part of a bid by extremists to persuade moderate Muslim Uighurs to turn against Beijing’s controlled current of Islam.

The targeting of Uighur officials or religious leaders has been an undercurrent of unrest for some 20 years in Xinjiang, where members of the Uighur minority are unhappy at official restrictions on their culture and religion.

Juma Tahir, the imam at China’s largest mosque, Id Kah, in the Silk Road city of Kashgar, was killed on Wednesday by three suspected Islamist militants armed with knives. His predecessor narrowly survived a knife attack in the same spot in 1996.

But the attack contrasted with most recent violence aimed at the majority Han ethnic group and may be calculated to persuade Uighurs to fall in behind what China says are separatists seeking an independent state called East Turkestan.

“Part of the motivation is not simply to remove and put pressure on the state-backed officials, but also to make an impact on those who attend these mosques, the stability minded Uighurs,” said Michael Clarke of Australia’s Griffith University.

“In a sense, it is attempting to signal that this is a conflict that is now society wide. You have to now choose sides.”

Tahir, 74, whose name is also spelled Juma Tayir, was a well-known supporter of Beijing authorities and had backed the government after security forces crushed 2009 riots in Urumqi, Xinjiang’s capital. About 200 people died.


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22 Jun 2022, 11:24 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
I certainly wouldn't say that everything released by the Chinese government is honest. Fighting that actually is my main activity.
But are they more untrustworthy than the US government?

Yes, quite comfortably.

When the US government lies, it is kept in check by the free press, by the democratic opposition, freedom of information laws, whistleblower laws. Does that mean it is always honest? No - but there is a huge difference between life in a democracy, where dissent is tolerated and even encouraged, and life in a totalitarian state where dissent is dangerous and where the government is actively suppressing entire ethnic groups.



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22 Jun 2022, 1:15 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
I certainly wouldn't say that everything released by the Chinese government is honest. Fighting that actually is my main activity.
But are they more untrustworthy than the US government?

Yes, quite comfortably.

When the US government lies, it is kept in check by the free press, by the democratic opposition, freedom of information laws, whistleblower laws. Does that mean it is always honest? No - but there is a huge difference between life in a democracy, where dissent is tolerated and even encouraged, and life in a totalitarian state where dissent is dangerous and where the government is actively suppressing entire ethnic groups.

Need quotation.
Or I can just cite any Chinese social platform and find some videos of the daily life of Uyghurs to share.

I have open dissent. I don't think I need you to tell me how dangerous my life has been for over twenty years.
I even met a Uighur who live in China but hold separatist views on another English platform yesterday.
The_Walrus wrote:
where dissent is tolerated and even encouraged

Serious? What do you think is the main reason why my compatriots are not interested in external networks?

I have recently observed some fairly solid systematic reports that can refute many narratives. They were clearly "not encouraged". When there is excess information, what is the essential difference between not being recommended and being banned?

Or, why not "encourage" Chinese state media?


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Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 22 Jun 2022, 1:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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22 Jun 2022, 1:20 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
I certainly wouldn't say that everything released by the Chinese government is honest. Fighting that actually is my main activity.
But are they more untrustworthy than the US government?

Yes, quite comfortably.

When the US government lies, it is kept in check by the free press, by the democratic opposition, freedom of information laws, whistleblower laws. Does that mean it is always honest? No - but there is a huge difference between life in a democracy, where dissent is tolerated and even encouraged, and life in a totalitarian state where dissent is dangerous and where the government is actively suppressing entire ethnic groups.


The U.S. media pushes state propaganda all day long, because they are owned and operated by the same corporate interests that run our government.

Again, you have no understanding of the mechanics of American politics and how it has evolved over the past four decades.


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22 Jun 2022, 1:36 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
I certainly wouldn't say that everything released by the Chinese government is honest. Fighting that actually is my main activity.
But are they more untrustworthy than the US government?

Yes, quite comfortably.

When the US government lies, it is kept in check by the free press, by the democratic opposition, freedom of information laws, whistleblower laws. Does that mean it is always honest? No - but there is a huge difference between life in a democracy, where dissent is tolerated and even encouraged, and life in a totalitarian state where dissent is dangerous and where the government is actively suppressing entire ethnic groups.


The U.S. media pushes state propaganda all day long, because they are owned and operated by the same corporate interests that run our government.

Again, you have no understanding of the mechanics of American politics and how it has evolved over the past four decades.

Chinese all know that the media has its own agenda, so we never eat it. We prefer to mock it.
But many residents of the free world don't know?


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22 Jun 2022, 1:48 pm

SkinnedWolf wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
I certainly wouldn't say that everything released by the Chinese government is honest. Fighting that actually is my main activity.
But are they more untrustworthy than the US government?

Yes, quite comfortably.

When the US government lies, it is kept in check by the free press, by the democratic opposition, freedom of information laws, whistleblower laws. Does that mean it is always honest? No - but there is a huge difference between life in a democracy, where dissent is tolerated and even encouraged, and life in a totalitarian state where dissent is dangerous and where the government is actively suppressing entire ethnic groups.


The U.S. media pushes state propaganda all day long, because they are owned and operated by the same corporate interests that run our government.

Again, you have no understanding of the mechanics of American politics and how it has evolved over the past four decades.

Chinese all know that the media has its own agenda, so we never eat it. We prefer to mock it.
But many residents of the free world don't know?


Many Americans don't, that's for sure.


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22 Jun 2022, 2:14 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
When the US government lies...

...then go unpunished.


I would even go so far as to say that despite the fact that Chinese official foreign statements are often ambiguous and hide the point. But what it gives is "correct" most of the time.


For example, there has never been a "Tiananmen Massacre".
None of the students in Tiananmen Square died - and this undermined the student leader's plan.

The real death occurred on the way of the army to Beijing, which was a crackdown on the working class.
And the deaths of the entire time also included polices who were burned by thugs / activists. Because they are not allowed to use force against students.
Image
Image
Therefore, the "Tiananmen massacre" is indeed false. CCP has never lied on this issue.


_________________
With the help of translation software.

Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.