Page 4 of 9 [ 129 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next

MaxE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Sep 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,483
Location: Mid-Atlantic US

23 Jun 2022, 9:57 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
California is actually not crazy “to the rest of us.” It may be crazy to some but not to everyone. It’s not a different country at all. Politically, I identify with California much more than my home state. It also should be noted that it would not be as dominant as you are claiming.

I don't live there but I don't see why people think California is crazy. The weather sucks but that's the main reason I don't plan to move there.

Twilightprincess wrote:
The Founding Fathers were smart but not perfect. The Constitution is not a sacred document. It’s understandable that it would not be 100% applicable for our day.

The problem is that this is a minority opinion.


_________________
My WP story


Twilightprincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,864
Location: Small Town From Hell

23 Jun 2022, 10:11 am

MaxE wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The Founding Fathers were smart but not perfect. The Constitution is not a sacred document. It’s understandable that it would not be 100% applicable for our day.

The problem is that this is a minority opinion.


It’s bewildering to me. Perhaps we push patriotism too much in our schools, especially with the flag salute and its mention of God which could inspire feelings of awe and sacredness towards our Founding Fathers and their writings.

I also find the term “Founding Fathers” a bit cringey because it highlights the fact that women were conspicuously absent, as they are from the Declaration of Independence.

“Founding” documents were directed towards a minority of the population at the time.


_________________
Away.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 85,834
Location: Queens, NYC

23 Jun 2022, 10:45 am

California has its share of conservative libertarians, too!

Ronald Reagan, after all, was Governor of California before he became President......



Twilightprincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,864
Location: Small Town From Hell

23 Jun 2022, 10:47 am

MaxE wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
California is actually not crazy “to the rest of us.” It may be crazy to some but not to everyone. It’s not a different country at all. Politically, I identify with California much more than my home state. It also should be noted that it would not be as dominant as you are claiming.

I don't live there but I don't see why people think California is crazy. The weather sucks but that's the main reason I don't plan to move there.


People call it crazy as an ad hominem attack when they disagree with its politics.


_________________
Away.


Twilightprincess
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,864
Location: Small Town From Hell

23 Jun 2022, 11:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Ronald Reagan, after all, was Governor of California before he became President......


Good point.

No place can be perfect. :lol:


_________________
Away.


ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 5,504
Location: canada

23 Jun 2022, 7:43 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But as for a lot of Americans thinking the attempted coup on 1/6 was very bad, do most Americans only think that the attempted coup was bad because it was republicans doing it? If it was the other around and the republican party won the election, and democrats attempted a coup, the majority of Americans would have supported the attempted coup and would not think it was such a big bad deal, like they do when republicans commit it?

If the Democrats did it would probably be called a "mostly peaceful protest".


Yeah, this is the double standard, that I thought it would be. Plus when the republicans ran into the capital building, they didn't even do anything terrorizing. They didn't take any hostages or make any demands, or attempt to assaninate any VIPs in there. All they seemed to do was hang out and chill and gawk at everything for a full two hours or more. This is hardly what I would call an inssurection and it was quite amateur and incompetent.

But the only reason why it's treated like a serious terrorist attack, is because the republicans did it. But if the democats did the same thing, and just gawked around for two hours, it would be seen as the incompetent, amateur attempt that it was.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,934

23 Jun 2022, 9:05 pm

ironpony wrote:
But the only reason why it's treated like a serious terrorist attack, is because the republicans did it. But if the democats did the same thing, and just gawked around for two hours, it would be seen as the incompetent, amateur attempt that it was.


The primary issue was the intent behind the storming. BLM and Antifa wouldn't have ropes and weapons and go looking from US congressmen and women to lynch. Every clown who took part in the storming was perfectly aware of the calls in the crowd to lynch Pelosi and Pence but voluntarily persisted in storming the building so in my view are equally culpable in aiding and abetting attempted murder.

They were also enabled by members of the republican party, defense forces, police and FBI.



ironpony
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 Nov 2015
Age: 38
Posts: 5,504
Location: canada

23 Jun 2022, 9:17 pm

It's true the intention was there, but again, if it was democrats who threatened to hang Pence for example and stormed a building, people wouldn't think it was near as big of deal, and the democrats would get a lot more support, so it's hard to take 1/6 as seriously, when so many have this double standard on it, if that makes sense.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,934

23 Jun 2022, 9:21 pm

ironpony wrote:
It's true the intention was there, but again, if it was democrats who threatened to hang Pence for example and stormed a building, people wouldn't think it was near as big of deal, and the democrats would get a lot more support, so it's hard to take 1/6 as seriously, when so many have this double standard on it, if that makes sense.


That's an unrealistic hypothetical since neither Antifa or BLM or the democrats have called to physically attack standing members of congress



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 85,834
Location: Queens, NYC

23 Jun 2022, 9:55 pm

The Vice President was threatened with hanging because he refused to do Trump’s criminal bidding. He refused to do something unconstitutional that would have undermined the credibility of the United States as a viable democracy.

It was an attempted coup—pure and simple.

No double standard. If the Democrats did this, I would have called all this treason, too. It would also have been an attempted coup.



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,934

23 Jun 2022, 10:10 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Vice President was threatened with hanging because he refused to do Trump’s criminal bidding. He refused to do something unconstitutional that would have undermined the credibility of the United States as a viable democracy.

It was an attempted coup—pure and simple.

No double standard. If the Democrats did this, I would have called all this treason, too. It would also have been an attempted coup.


We know this but the argument being put forward is "what aboutism" which doesn't apply here



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,475
Location: Northern California

23 Jun 2022, 11:20 pm

Any effort to compare 1/6 to the BLM riots misses the point entirely.

1/6 isn't about the misled citizens who tried to breach the capital.

It is about the plan of those in power to stay in power and subvert the constitution. 1/6 was only one visual in a campaign that was largely fought behind the scenes.

BLM is about the powerless expressing frustration at being powerless.

1/6 is the powerful trying to take away the voice of the people because the people decided the powerful needed to be replaced.

There is nothing to compare. Comparing is a distraction to avoid talking about the underlying issues.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,673
Location: Long Island, New York

24 Jun 2022, 1:36 am

Why BLM and the "Awokeining" of 2020 was an insurrection and revolutionary.

Burning down a few police stations and attempting to attack many with police in them. Police stations are government buildings.

Replace understood history with theirs(America started in 1619, not 1776, racism is a feature, not a bug etc)

Wanting the elimination of established social structures(nuclear family)

Weoponinizing of words and terms for a political agenda

Tearing down of statues

Removal of people, and attempted removal of people who don't conform with the agenda often by intimidation and without due process.

All of the above are recognized features of revolutions. Whether you agree with the change BLM wanted or not does not matter for this definition issue.

And in the short term, the "awokining" has been partially successful in its objectives, while the 1/6 attempted coup completely failed.

To argue that the BLM did not directly plan the riots is both truthful and somewhat misleading. The planning by the trained Marxists was in setting the stage to take advantage when the opportunity came and Dereck Chauvin presented that opportunity, oh how he did.


I began this thread by comparing the BLM riots to 1/6 and in case it got lost in the back and forth since found 1/6 worse for reasons listed in the OP. Other reasons are given since buttressed the case that 1/6 was worse. The reason for me comparing 1/6 to the BLM was that I am tired of 1/6 apologists using the BLM riots to constantly downplay and excuse 1/6. This should work both ways what happened in 2020 should not be downplayed and excused.

There is a school of thought that one needs put the lesser threat aside to deal with the greater threat. I disagree with that strategy in a lot of situations.


_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


r00tb33r
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2016
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,988
Location: Virginia

24 Jun 2022, 1:58 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
California is actually not crazy “to the rest of us.” It may be crazy to some but not to everyone. It’s not a different country at all. Politically, I identify with California much more than my home state. It also should be noted that it would not be as dominant as you are claiming.

It’s true that Republicans would not like it, but they still have Texas, although it’s not as red as it used to be (yay!) and many other states.

The Founding Fathers were smart but not perfect. The Constitution is not a sacred document. It’s understandable that it would not be 100% applicable for our day.

A government that is “for the people” should reflect what the majority of its people want whether or not you think that the people of specific regions and their values are “crazy.”

Mmm. No. California is positively certifiably batsh*t insane. Thanks to California if I go to the home improvement store every single plank of wood that I will pick up and buy (even the little hardwood floor trim planks) are stamped with the words "blah blah blah wood sawdust is known to the state of California to potentially cause cancer blah blah blah". Every, single, one. By law, they make lumber producers stamp that on every piece. Not only is that wasteful in terms of resources to perform that operation, it likely also adds to the cost of the product for no good reason.
...I guess they forgot to stamp that on every wood pencil I used and sharpened at school. Oh, no, no, don't want to give them any more ideas.

I rest my case.


_________________
I've reached the end.


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 33,669
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

24 Jun 2022, 2:14 am

What comparison exactly?..last I recall BLM didn't try to storm the capital to prevent the election or rally to hang mike pence.


_________________
We won't go back.


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,934

24 Jun 2022, 3:07 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
What comparison exactly?..last I recall BLM didn't try to storm the capital to prevent the election or rally to hang mike pence.


The outgoing POTUS encouraged the crowd to lynch Pence
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/2 ... 6-00035117

The cowards who launched the storming of the capitol all claim amnesia about what their intentions were. Like a asking a captured German soldier in 1945 claiming they never heard of the Nazis.