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DW_a_mom
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24 Jun 2022, 8:36 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like people who like to impose their values upon me.


That's why people protest though isn't it? they want to impose their values


They want to be HEARD in the hopes that a trajectory will change.

They don't expect to simply get their way.

They expect to be allowed into the conversation.

And sometimes they expect to remind politicians what the majority of people want, because the politicians have been ignoring the majority.


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cyberdad
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24 Jun 2022, 9:36 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like people who like to impose their values upon me.


That's why people protest though isn't it? they want to impose their values


They want to be HEARD in the hopes that a trajectory will change.
They expect to be allowed into the conversation.


People want their values to be adopted by others they consider important (university socialists or BLM protestors never hand out pamphlets to the homeless or destitute) and they want to influence higher social classes,



kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 10:22 pm

I believe everyone should be “in the conversation,” too.

I just don’t like people being strident with me, and assuming the worst if I don’t believe in one tenet of an overall political platform.

I like the Martin Luther King approach much better than the Malcolm X approach.



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24 Jun 2022, 11:58 pm

Oh I apologize if I was being strident, and did not mean to come off that way.



kraftiekortie
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14 Aug 2022, 10:51 am

I was talking in general…..



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14 Aug 2022, 11:22 am

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I happen to like Michael Moore's movies. Sometimes, he went a bit overboard----but I believe in most of what he says.


Bowling for Columbine was my favourite.


I'm sure it was. :roll:


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14 Aug 2022, 11:45 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
MaxE wrote:
So the quote turns out to be from the Heritage Foundation which is a well-known source of right wing propaganda. Anyway, calling Patricia Cullors the Founder of BLM is a propaganda tactic. She founded an organization she called BLM but she is self appointed, she didn't originate the grassroots movement by any means. It's not much of stretch to imagine the Right put her up to this as she's such a convenient bogeyman. I challenge you to go into any public space and ask 100 people if they recognize the name Patricia Cullors and find anyone who says yes. I have only seen her name in the context of Right Wing propaganda. Back in my day, everyone knew who Angela Davis was. She was without a doubt a Marxist but I would have no idea who trained her.
oy
Bottom line anything out of the Heritage Foundation is crap and should be properly labeled.

Of course, it would be a conservative/right agenda organization that would pick up stuff the mainstream media does not see as does Michael Moore because he has an agenda that lets him see things the mainstream media does not. The Heritage Foundation is not a Rupert Murdoch tabloid they are a think tank. Did the Heritage Foundation make it all up? I have not seen any of those people mentioned say they were misquoted or taken out of context.



How well known a person is a matter of media coverage. I can speculate as to why Davis had more publicity than Cullors if you want but the bottom line is unlike Davis, Cullors is a founder and leader.

I didn't notice this comment as I believe I had stopped following the topic, but I stand by what I said before. This person is a convenient bogeyman for right wing propaganda and yes the Heritage Foundation is a propaganda organization anybody can call themselves a "think tank" doesn't make them respectable.


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ASPartOfMe
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14 Aug 2022, 12:49 pm

MaxE wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
MaxE wrote:
So the quote turns out to be from the Heritage Foundation which is a well-known source of right wing propaganda. Anyway, calling Patricia Cullors the Founder of BLM is a propaganda tactic. She founded an organization she called BLM but she is self appointed, she didn't originate the grassroots movement by any means. It's not much of stretch to imagine the Right put her up to this as she's such a convenient bogeyman. I challenge you to go into any public space and ask 100 people if they recognize the name Patricia Cullors and find anyone who says yes. I have only seen her name in the context of Right Wing propaganda. Back in my day, everyone knew who Angela Davis was. She was without a doubt a Marxist but I would have no idea who trained her.
oy
Bottom line anything out of the Heritage Foundation is crap and should be properly labeled.

Of course, it would be a conservative/right agenda organization that would pick up stuff the mainstream media does not see as does Michael Moore because he has an agenda that lets him see things the mainstream media does not. The Heritage Foundation is not a Rupert Murdoch tabloid they are a think tank. Did the Heritage Foundation make it all up? I have not seen any of those people mentioned say they were misquoted or taken out of context.



How well known a person is a matter of media coverage. I can speculate as to why Davis had more publicity than Cullors if you want but the bottom line is unlike Davis, Cullors is a founder and leader.

I didn't notice this comment as I believe I had stopped following the topic, but I stand by what I said before. This person is a convenient bogeyman for right wing propaganda and yes the Heritage Foundation is a propaganda organization anybody can call themselves a "think tank" doesn't make them respectable.


I myself had long ago stopped following this thread as there have not been much of BLM activity of any kind of late. If anything was going to happen summer would be prime time for it, we are now in mid august. Re reading the thread I have not changed my mind either. What did strike me was this thread was started to criticize conservatives who are using the BLM/George Floyd murder triggered riots to excuse 1/6. In order to do that I felt had to compare the two events and find the 2020 events a lesser event. Yet what the thread turned into was 1. The 2020 violence was way overhyped 2. Anybody saying otherwise are useful idiots for conservative propaganda. In doing this I feel it would be negligent to minimize the 2020 events by downplaying them.

I would be more inclined to minimize the influence of the founders if the tactics used do not resemble the training they said they received.

The only regret I have is using Michael Moore as an example of an agenda source finding things others don’t. BLM themselves would have been a better example.


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ASPartOfMe
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03 Nov 2022, 4:01 pm

The same columnist quoted in the OP uses more current events to make the same points.
Attack on Paul Pelosi should prompt soul-searching on political violence, not more finger-pointing by Cathy Young
Behind a paywall

Quote:
The home-invasion attack on Paul Pelosi, the 82-year-old husband of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, has brought to the fore the danger of political violence in an angry and polarized America. The fact that many Republicans reacted to the assault by laughing it off or amplifying defamatory rumors makes it all the more shocking. Does this incident point to a problem specific to the GOP, or to a more general danger of extremism? Perhaps the answer is “both.”

At this point, there is no doubt that the attack, in which Paul Pelosi suffered a fractured skull, was directed at the Speaker and politically motivated.

DePape’s internet presence indicates he was steeped in far-right conspiracy theories and culture-war battles about COVID-19 vaccines, the 2020 election, and other issues. Some conservative commentators have downplayed the political angle, pointing out that the 42-year-old had once been a leftist and had a history of drug abuse and mental illness.

But that doesn’t absolve the far-right extremism which has made major inroads into the Republican and conservative mainstream. The belief that an evil cabal of politicians and other public figures is using vaccination to poison people, has stolen a presidential election, and harbors a network of murderous child rapists is likely to find fertile ground among vulnerable people with mental illness, giving some a focus for paranoid and violent tendencies.

Conservatives are correct to note that political violence is not a one-way street. In July, Lee Zeldin, who is running for governor in New York, suffered a minor assault during a campaign appearance. In June, Nicholas Roske, 26, surrendered to police near the Maryland home of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, carrying weapons and burglary tools, and admitted to traveling from California to kill the justice because of the impending decision overturning abortion rights. Notably, no prominent Democrat laughed it off.

Apocalyptic left-wing rhetoric accusing conservatives of wanting to subjugate women, terrorize minorities, and burn the planet has its own potential to stoke paranoia and push mentally vulnerable people toward violence. Still, this is not a case of equivalent problems on both sides. According to the nonpartisan Center for Strategic and International Studies, right-wing extremists have been involved in 267 attacks and 91 fatalities since 2015, compared to 66 attacks and 19 fatalities for extremists on the far left. It’s hard to know how many of these incidents were linked to mental illness.

Lowering the temperature of political discourse across the board is essential. But there is simply no denying that the extremism problem is worse in the post-Donald Trump GOP.

Claims that the attack was a gay tryst gone wrong, spun from misleading tidbits in early reports on the incident, have been picked up by conservative media figures such as Michael Savage and used as fodder for innuendo by Republican politicians — including Trump.

In a saner world, this incident would prompt some soul-searching. Instead, we’re likely to get more finger-pointing.

The only issue I have with what was written is "post-Donald Trump GOP".


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03 Nov 2022, 7:06 pm

Well as far as this whole cops like to kill black people concept that is going on, if the police are targeting black people that much more than other races, then why are there so many black police officers? Why would they choose to be part of an organization that specializes in murdering black people, if that's the case?



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03 Nov 2022, 7:16 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If one was a shopkeeper affected by the vandalism of the BLM riots, it would be understandable if this shopkeeper had a different take upon this distinction.


Shopkeepers have insurance

Congressmen can't come back from the dead if they were lynched



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03 Nov 2022, 7:21 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well as far as this whole cops like to kill black people concept that is going on, if the police are targeting black people that much more than other races, then why are there so many black police officers? Why would they choose to be part of an organization that specializes in murdering black people, if that's the case?


Obviously there's more to it than what the media implies. I don't believe cops are only targetting black people, they target white people too if they are impoverished and live in trailer parks too like I do (I see it happen all the time).

Basically our cops are targetting the poor because what's going on here in the US is a classism problem as much as it is racism. Poverty is oftened believed to be linked to crime. But the ill treatment of blacks makes the news more than the poor treatment of whites. It's obviously all political and plays into the agenda of our politicians who exploit people's strong feelings about racism.

We should really ask ourselves why our leaders are turning us against each other instead of trying to unite us through these hard times?



DeathFlowerKing
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03 Nov 2022, 7:23 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
If one was a shopkeeper affected by the vandalism of the BLM riots, it would be understandable if this shopkeeper had a different take upon this distinction.


Shopkeepers have insurance

Congressmen can't come back from the dead if they were lynched


That's still no excuse for destroying a person's property.



ironpony
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03 Nov 2022, 8:01 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well as far as this whole cops like to kill black people concept that is going on, if the police are targeting black people that much more than other races, then why are there so many black police officers? Why would they choose to be part of an organization that specializes in murdering black people, if that's the case?


Obviously there's more to it than what the media implies. I don't believe cops are only targetting black people, they target white people too if they are impoverished and live in trailer parks too like I do (I see it happen all the time).

Basically our cops are targetting the poor because what's going on here in the US is a classism problem as much as it is racism. Poverty is oftened believed to be linked to crime. But the ill treatment of blacks makes the news more than the poor treatment of whites. It's obviously all political and plays into the agenda of our politicians who exploit people's strong feelings about racism.

We should really ask ourselves why our leaders are turning us against each other instead of trying to unite us through these hard times?


This seems to make more sense to me, but if it's a classicism thing overall then why doesn't the organization just call itself 'Poor Lives Matter' if that is more accurate?



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03 Nov 2022, 8:32 pm

ironpony wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well as far as this whole cops like to kill black people concept that is going on, if the police are targeting black people that much more than other races, then why are there so many black police officers? Why would they choose to be part of an organization that specializes in murdering black people, if that's the case?


Obviously there's more to it than what the media implies. I don't believe cops are only targetting black people, they target white people too if they are impoverished and live in trailer parks too like I do (I see it happen all the time).

Basically our cops are targetting the poor because what's going on here in the US is a classism problem as much as it is racism. Poverty is oftened believed to be linked to crime. But the ill treatment of blacks makes the news more than the poor treatment of whites. It's obviously all political and plays into the agenda of our politicians who exploit people's strong feelings about racism.

We should really ask ourselves why our leaders are turning us against each other instead of trying to unite us through these hard times?


This seems to make more sense to me, but if it's a classicism thing overall then why doesn't the organization just call itself 'Poor Lives Matter' if that is more accurate?


I think because it started with the murders of black peoole like Trevor Martin and George Floyd and a lot of people both white and black were rightfully very angry about this because it was a obvious neither man deserved to die the way they did.

But I'm sure most of us know what happens whenever political extremists (iow idiots) hijack a cause that starts with noble intentions but always gets way out of hand.



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04 Nov 2022, 3:20 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
If one was a shopkeeper affected by the vandalism of the BLM riots, it would be understandable if this shopkeeper had a different take upon this distinction.


Shopkeepers have insurance

Congressmen can't come back from the dead if they were lynched


That's still no excuse for destroying a person's property.


Tell that to Nancy Pelosi's husband. I'm 100% sure his atacker was still in Jan 6 mode when he was hunting Nancy pelosi