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ASPartOfMe
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30 Jul 2022, 9:20 am

Having autism makes finding a spiritual community difficult
Amy Langston has a B.A. in religious studies from Meredith College and an M.A. in religious studies from Hartford Seminary. She offers editing and speaking services related to religion and disability.

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Having autism can make being in socialized environments highly challenging, such as school, workplaces and houses of worship. I’ve heard countless stories of autistics and their family members giving up on finding a spiritual home where they feel welcome.
Though my most immediate knowledge is with Christian churches, I’ve heard similar anecdotes about Jewish and Muslim communities. Many religious groups emphasize the communal experience of religion, and they may not be sufficiently aware of the barriers present for disabled individuals.

As a Christian pastor once told me: “I don’t think it’s an intentional exclusion. It’s probably an uninformed oversight.”

Not every religious community grapples with being inclusive.

While in graduate school, I attended an Episcopal church where the people encouraged me in my ministry of preaching and education. That church became a vital support network outside of my seminary community. The Presbyterian church of my youth had caring adult leaders who provided me a space to explore deep questions of faith. Some of them were already familiar with autism and related conditions and ensured I had accommodations during youth activities.
But even at its best, participation in faith communities can be exhausting for autistic people.

For autistics, social interaction is a job, and participating in a religious community often feels less like respite and more like work. Making small talk in the hallway, interacting during a group Scripture study or negotiating on a service project are only a few of the routine situations that could pose considerable difficulty.

Lyric, an autistic Buddhist and writer at NeuroDivergent Rebel, said: “One thing to remember is that Autistic people often take things more literally and give and also need direct, open, and honest communication. We don’t always know how to sugar-coat things, and our honesty can be a bit much for some people, especially when we are younger.”

Another person I spoke to, an Orthodox Jew, reflected on the challenges of being autistic in Jewish settings: “The life is completely communal … you can’t be anonymous. That’s just not an option in the Orthodox community.”

Houses of worship can be places of unfamiliar and sometimes overwhelming sensations, such as loud music, vivid artwork, packed crowds, harsh smells, and bright lighting. The expected styles of dress may be agitating and uncomfortable to wear for the autistic congregant. Because long periods of silence or staying still and quiet are challenging, they might have a hard time focusing during the gatherings for worship. For children or adults in education classes, posters or boldly painted walls could be distractions, rather than reinforcements.

Several people I talked to spoke of struggling with attention and stillness.
“The expectations around staying still can be difficult to uphold,” a neurodiverse Catholic person told me.

A Muslim agreed: “If you have any kind of attention issue, I see that being very difficult.”
On the flip side, Summer Kinard, an autistic Orthodox Christian and author of the book “Of Such Is the Kingdom: A Practical Theology of Disability,” said: “Orthodox Christianity is Christianity in 3D. It’s an embodied faith where our prayers have actions to go with them … because of this, it’s more accessible to autistic people. However, it can also be overwhelming, particularly if the church services are crowded.”

Many autistics think in a concrete, grounded way. They might have trouble with the manner and presentation of how religion is taught, especially if it is abstract and philosophical. For instance, autistic people often struggle with symbolic thinking, and many faith traditions are highly symbolic.

Autistics may resist expressing their thoughts and feelings in emotional language, and if a religious community is highly oriented around this, the autistic will feel out of place. Most importantly, they will feel rejected if the community’s language or stories exclude their experience of disability, or worse, interpret this difference as a condition from which to be healed or indicative of one’s spiritual standing.

The outcome of all this is that autism families and autistic individuals find themselves quitting regular religious attendanc


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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


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31 Jul 2022, 8:42 am

I suspect that autistic people were more likely to leave my former religious community, but I have no numbers on it. Autism was viewed as an ailment that was due to human imperfection that was brought about by Adam and Eve’s sin. Also, my group had extremely high social expectations. If you couldn’t live up to them, the implication was that you were spiritually weak.

Maybe I would’ve had a harder time leaving if I wasn’t autistic, not that it was easy. I never felt like part of the group.

As time went on, the lack of logic and rational thinking got to me, too. It was hard not to cringe and get irritated when a speaker would say something mind-numbingly idiotic such as:

“We are only using 1% [or 1/10 of 1%] of our brains.” Maybe those speakers were speaking from personal experience.

“The perfect order of the universe demonstrates that there was a creator.” Stuff crashes into other stuff all the time.

And a regular dose of cringey stuff regarding evolution.

The list is endless when it comes to obvious lapses in logic and rationality. They’d use a lot of parables as proof because that’s what Jesus did.

“Husbands need to be the heads of the family because you can’t have two people driving a car.” (false comparison)

I generally felt irritated or even angry when I attended. Maybe if I felt like part of the group, I wouldn’t have woken up, though.


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Texasmoneyman300
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06 Aug 2022, 2:16 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Having autism makes finding a spiritual community difficult
Amy Langston has a B.A. in religious studies from Meredith College and an M.A. in religious studies from Hartford Seminary. She offers editing and speaking services related to religion and disability.
Quote:
Having autism can make being in socialized environments highly challenging, such as school, workplaces and houses of worship. I’ve heard countless stories of autistics and their family members giving up on finding a spiritual home where they feel welcome.
Though my most immediate knowledge is with Christian churches, I’ve heard similar anecdotes about Jewish and Muslim communities. Many religious groups emphasize the communal experience of religion, and they may not be sufficiently aware of the barriers present for disabled individuals.

As a Christian pastor once told me: “I don’t think it’s an intentional exclusion. It’s probably an uninformed oversight.”

Not every religious community grapples with being inclusive.

While in graduate school, I attended an Episcopal church where the people encouraged me in my ministry of preaching and education. That church became a vital support network outside of my seminary community. The Presbyterian church of my youth had caring adult leaders who provided me a space to explore deep questions of faith. Some of them were already familiar with autism and related conditions and ensured I had accommodations during youth activities.
But even at its best, participation in faith communities can be exhausting for autistic people.

For autistics, social interaction is a job, and participating in a religious community often feels less like respite and more like work. Making small talk in the hallway, interacting during a group Scripture study or negotiating on a service project are only a few of the routine situations that could pose considerable difficulty.

Lyric, an autistic Buddhist and writer at NeuroDivergent Rebel, said: “One thing to remember is that Autistic people often take things more literally and give and also need direct, open, and honest communication. We don’t always know how to sugar-coat things, and our honesty can be a bit much for some people, especially when we are younger.”

Another person I spoke to, an Orthodox Jew, reflected on the challenges of being autistic in Jewish settings: “The life is completely communal … you can’t be anonymous. That’s just not an option in the Orthodox community.”

Houses of worship can be places of unfamiliar and sometimes overwhelming sensations, such as loud music, vivid artwork, packed crowds, harsh smells, and bright lighting. The expected styles of dress may be agitating and uncomfortable to wear for the autistic congregant. Because long periods of silence or staying still and quiet are challenging, they might have a hard time focusing during the gatherings for worship. For children or adults in education classes, posters or boldly painted walls could be distractions, rather than reinforcements.

Several people I talked to spoke of struggling with attention and stillness.
“The expectations around staying still can be difficult to uphold,” a neurodiverse Catholic person told me.

A Muslim agreed: “If you have any kind of attention issue, I see that being very difficult.”
On the flip side, Summer Kinard, an autistic Orthodox Christian and author of the book “Of Such Is the Kingdom: A Practical Theology of Disability,” said: “Orthodox Christianity is Christianity in 3D. It’s an embodied faith where our prayers have actions to go with them … because of this, it’s more accessible to autistic people. However, it can also be overwhelming, particularly if the church services are crowded.”

Many autistics think in a concrete, grounded way. They might have trouble with the manner and presentation of how religion is taught, especially if it is abstract and philosophical. For instance, autistic people often struggle with symbolic thinking, and many faith traditions are highly symbolic.

Autistics may resist expressing their thoughts and feelings in emotional language, and if a religious community is highly oriented around this, the autistic will feel out of place. Most importantly, they will feel rejected if the community’s language or stories exclude their experience of disability, or worse, interpret this difference as a condition from which to be healed or indicative of one’s spiritual standing.

The outcome of all this is that autism families and autistic individuals find themselves quitting regular religious attendanc

My current church is not suitable to me so I am starting my own because of all the problems I have had with the church.I am going to start a church of Christ and intentional Christian community because that is the type of spiritual community I want.I also want a church that drinks together and is fine with drinking in moderation so thats part of the reason why going to start it.I am also starting one because I want to live communally with other church of Christ brothers and sisters and my current one does not want to.I just dont fit it at church because its geared towards kids and married couples and I am not either one of those groups.I also dont like how there is not a group for young unmarried people anymore.I would of left my church a long time ago if I was open to non-church of Christ churches.I also feel left out because there are not any suitable church of Christ women where I live and thats too bad for me because I want to get married.

Also my dad told me that the church will prolly kick me out in the future over my politics so thats another disagreement with my church.I am going to start my own church of Christ spiritual community because I am not aware of any out there that would suit me.Also I think my church is wrong in the fact that a lot of them are theocratic Christian nationalists who dont take covid seriously and nobody but me and another guy wear masks while we are there.I have had trouble with my church over the years because there are cliques and partiality and the elders run the church the way the Mafia would.I also dont like it all that much because its basically a family business at this point.Also me and my family are treated poorly because we are not in senior leadership.Also my church bullies me for being a drinker.Also I am mad at my church because they wont help me and I am part of the hidden homeless so they wont even help me and I am part of the hidden homeless.Also another way I am unsuitable for that church is that they expect donations from every family every week and they wont be transparent with the money and will outright refuse to be transparent.They also think they are under no obligation to be transparent with donations so that made me mad.I am going to stop going to that church building soon enough.Also I think they are hypocritical because they are materialistic.I hope my church will turn out to be the spiritual community that will be suited to me finally.Also my church is not suited to me because they celebrate Christmas and Easter and Thanksgiving as religious holidays and lie to their kids about Santa and the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy when one of the Ten Commandments is Thou Shall Not Lie so I see that as hypocrisy.Also many of them are Pharisees who confuse tradition and scipture.



klanka
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06 Aug 2022, 4:33 am

I dont think your church should harass you about drinking, as its not even a major sin. Jesus drank alcohol, and even supplied wine to people who were already drunk.
I was against Christmas and Easter before , because they might've been based on non-Christian religions...but now I think they are OK.

I think God communicates to me sometimes and this is what I THOUGHT he said , thought in capital letters because we all make mistakes hearing from God:

-Things have changed recently so that if a Pastor (or other leadership) doesnt help someone with disabilities , they lose their position.The dream said 'if the pastor doesnt help the disabled person get laid' :D , which is hilarious but time will tell about that one.

-In my dreams which I think are from God the driving seat and car analogy are used constantly.
In one dream the pastor was in the passenger seat and his wife was in the driving seat. As a consequence of that a rowdy man joined the church and caused trouble. So obviously that is going to be unpopular around here but im just reporting what I think I heard.
It's basically saying that a pastor shouldnt let his wife be in charge.
The same thing also goes for marriage, if the husband lets his wife be in the driver's seat then a man who is a bit more rowdy and wild than the husband will meet the couple and start sleeping with the wife or cause some kind of trouble.



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06 Aug 2022, 7:40 am

Quote:
In my dreams which I think are from God the driving seat and car analogy are used constantly.
In one dream the pastor was in the passenger seat and his wife was in the driving seat. As a consequence of that a rowdy man joined the church and caused trouble. So obviously that is going to be unpopular around here but im just reporting what I think I heard.
It's basically saying that a pastor shouldnt let his wife be in charge.
The same thing also goes for marriage, if the husband lets his wife be in the driver's seat then a man who is a bit more rowdy and wild than the husband will meet the couple and start sleeping with the wife or cause some kind of trouble.


Sometimes a dream is just a dream and shouldn’t be heeded.

Relationships are not like cars. This is just the sort of analogy my former church would use to uphold their misogyny. It didn’t work then, and it doesn’t work now.

Ideally, both people in a relationship will make decisions together and neither of them will be in charge. People who are in a happy marriage may be less likely to cheat.

There are female pastors.


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DanielW
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06 Aug 2022, 8:07 am

I've never understood why people want to join any organization that doesn't want them. Especially groups that exist to exclude others in the first place. I'm not picking on any religion, as its not just religious organizations that do this.

People of any belief system don't need a "church" in order to practice their faith or belief system anyway.



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06 Aug 2022, 8:12 am

DanielW wrote:
I've never understood why people want to join any organization that doesn't want them. Especially groups that exist to exclude others in the first place. I'm not picking on any religion, as its not just religious organizations that do this.

There are many reasons why people join such communities. Controlling groups have their pluses. They can feel like family. For people who have no social supports, that can be enticing even if some of the groups’ teachings are harmful.

Sometimes people are led to believe that a group has the sole Truth, and they need to join and be active members even if they find the belief system distasteful.


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klanka
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06 Aug 2022, 9:01 am

Yes I can see how you and others won't like that. I have noticed that scenario playing out in real Life a few times though, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, and I'll admit it. I don't claim to be able to hear from God reliably at all.

I don't know what to think about the issue of female pastors, the Bible is against it but I know of one who could heal people so, things can change. The Bible isn't set in stone, we don't avoid eating pork so God's word can change.
So I'm waiting to be educated on that issue.

Something that I've noticed personally is:


Little Christian splinter groups that have a strict doctrine: ie no alcohol allowed, no television,or movies
The leader tends to be mean.

Mainstream churches like: Baptist, Pentecostals, Anglican. That are totally not strict.
The pastor is usually the nicest bloke you can meet.



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06 Aug 2022, 9:18 am

klanka wrote:
I have noticed that scenario playing out in real Life many times though.

Anecdotal “evidence” that’s most likely “supported” by confirmation bias.

Quote:
Mainstream churches like: Baptist, Pentecostals, Anglican. That are totally not strict.
The pastor is usually the nicest bloke or woman you can meet.

Fixed it for ya! 8)

I don’t think I would consider Pentecostalism a mainstream religion. They often have a fair amount of bizarre, if not downright harmful, beliefs. Depending on the specific church, I would even consider them a cult. Some Baptist churches can be extreme, too. It depends on the group. They typically aren’t as “out there” as Pentecostals, though.

Leaders of cults often seem nice. That’s how they ensnare people.

No person is capable of healing unless they are an attending physician. Faith healing does not work. Any apparent improvement in minor illnesses would be due to the placebo effect. Belief in “faith healing” can be exceedingly harmful, especially when people use it as a replacement for real medical care that’s provided by real doctors. It has killed people.


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08 Aug 2022, 1:08 am

klanka wrote:
I dont think your church should harass you about drinking, as its not even a major sin. Jesus drank alcohol, and even supplied wine to people who were already drunk.
I was against Christmas and Easter before , because they might've been based on non-Christian religions...but now I think they are OK.

I think God communicates to me sometimes and this is what I THOUGHT he said , thought in capital letters because we all make mistakes hearing from God:

-Things have changed recently so that if a Pastor (or other leadership) doesnt help someone with disabilities , they lose their position.The dream said 'if the pastor doesnt help the disabled person get laid' :D , which is hilarious but time will tell about that one.

-In my dreams which I think are from God the driving seat and car analogy are used constantly.
In one dream the pastor was in the passenger seat and his wife was in the driving seat. As a consequence of that a rowdy man joined the church and caused trouble. So obviously that is going to be unpopular around here but im just reporting what I think I heard.
It's basically saying that a pastor shouldnt let his wife be in charge.
The same thing also goes for marriage, if the husband lets his wife be in the driver's seat then a man who is a bit more rowdy and wild than the husband will meet the couple and start sleeping with the wife or cause some kind of trouble.

Ya the Bible is fine with drinking as long as you dont get drunk generally Also I think its wrong for my church to celebrate Christmas and Easter and Thanksgiving because historicially the churches of Christ were very opposed to celebrating Christmas and Easter.It is was a long standing rule in the church of Christ that we dont celebrate any religious holidays but that has gone by the way side.



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08 Aug 2022, 2:51 am

The problem isn't "Making small talk in the hallway, interacting during a group Scripture study or negotiating on a service project," lol. What kind of lovely fantasy world does this author live in?

Let's see: my son got us kicked out of Mommy and Me at synagogue because he wouldn't stop screaming because another kid got the blue bell.
Ran down the rabbi on his tricycle in the playground.
Disturbed the prayers with a screaming/sobbing fit because he found a small hole in the stitching of his toy.
Had to be physically removed from the synagogue on Shavuot because he wouldn't stop screaming about wanting a Hebrew School medal.

*sigh*

And he's my most devout kid! He says his prayers every day. He *likes* synagogue. You're allowed to rock during prayers. Kids regularly wander around during services or go out to the lobby to read or the playground to play. That stuff's easy.

It's the not screaming that's hard.



klanka
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08 Aug 2022, 7:23 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Also I think its wrong for my church to celebrate Christmas and Easter and Thanksgiving because historicially the churches of Christ were very opposed to celebrating Christmas and Easter.It is was a long standing rule in the church of Christ that we dont celebrate any religious holidays but that has gone by the way side.


Do you have any reasons other than it's church tradition?



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08 Aug 2022, 8:31 am

I have compiled a list of reasons people gave as to why they left the various 'Christian' churches.  Here it is, in its entirety:

• "When a devout member told me that -- though it might be hard -- she would offer her children up like Abraham did with Isaac, in a heartbeat if the Leader of her church commanded it."

• "When a devout member very seriously told her son that she would rather have him graduate from their church's education program than from high school. (Their church's seminary gives neither credit, nor real world experience -- It is just brainwashing.)"

• "When attending church, going for Bible study, participating in the choir, and reading the Bible began to feel like chores."

• "When each service became an opportunity to put on a greater show than the previous service. The stage, the lights, the bands, and the video screens all just become noise to those really seeking to encounter God."

• "When every leadership meeting broke down into heated arguments, which sometimes ended in physical altercations in the church parking lot."

• "When I asked my mom if we knew the nukes were coming, who would she rather spend her last moments with me or the church leader, she chooses him."

• "When I began suffering from depression because I realized nothing I did would ever be enough. I tried to be perfect, but it was never good enough for the church or for 'God'."

• "When I could no longer respect the pastor or his leadership."

• "When I felt like I was the only one troubled by stories of violence, misogyny, and genocide found in the Bible, and I was tired of people telling me not to worry about it because 'God's ways are higher than our ways'."

• "When I finally read the Bible and discovered that a lot of the church's beliefs and practices had little or no basis in the Scriptures, the Prophesies, the Gospels, or the Epistles; but were based instead on racist and sexist traditions of a political nature."

• "When I got chastized for having been sexually assaulted."

• "When I heard myself saying, 'I am so lucky I was born into the right religion'."

• "When I learned that, if a woman was going to be raped, it would be better for her to kill herself than risk having her 'blood lineage' tainted."

• "When I met with my mother about difficulty coping with my arranged marriage. I explained to her the abusive aspects of the relationship and how much it was breaking me down, and her response was that it was my job to be quiet."

• "When I noticed it was unusual that we were not allowed to hang out with anyone other than people who were in our church."

• "When I noticed the gossip and negative attitudes toward one another when backs were turned, but when speaking to each other everybody pretended to be nice."

• "When I realized how judgmental everybody was and that nothing anybody I did ever seemed like it was good enough."

• "When I realized I could learn all the gossip about each church member's problems by listening to all the other church members' prayers. For instance, Sue would be asking God to intervene in Mary's alcohol addiction while Mary was asking God to intervene in Sue's promiscuous relationships."

• "When I realized I had been running two versions of 'truth' in my head my whole life; one was the empirical, fact-based reality we live in, and the other was my church's version of that reality. One day, it clicked that both cannot be true, and that I was living a lie."

• "When I realized that any of those old dudes could still technically ask for me or my daughter as a 'spiritual wife' and we would have no choice."

• "When I finally realized that anything and everything church-related was more important to my spouse than I could ever hope to be."

• "When I realized that I would never see a woman or person-of-color preaching from the pulpit, leading singing, leading prayer, helping with communion and offering, teaching Sunday School, or even praying or reading the Gospel out loud in front of the mostly white congregation."

• "When I realized that God does not use flaming swords to force little girls to shag old dudes."

• "When I realized that it was often assumed that everyone in the congregation voted for Republicans."

• "When I realized that medication and painkillers existed, that other people gave them to their children when they were sick, and that my parents could have helped me when I was suffering but chose not to."

• "When I realized that my questions were seen as impositions and liabilities, and not as teachable moments."

• "When I realized that our worship group discussions about sin focussed solely on sex and sexuality."

• "When I realized that the doors to the 13-story former hotel building we were all living in were all locked and you had to sign out to leave. No one (from children to adults) could leave without an explanation to where they were going and when they would be back."

• "When I realized that the pastor's family was not held to the same high standards of behavior as the rest of us."

• "When I was pulled out of Sunday school and scolded for asking legit questions about our church's doctrine."

• "When I was taken shopping for a wedding dress at 12 years old by some women of the church."

• "When I was the one who got shunned for defending a child from a pedophile."

• "When I was told doing independent research on the doctrine would lead to being shunned by my friends and family."

• "When I was told every woman needed to bear a child with the cult leader."

• "When we were given drugged sweets, such as cookies, for food."

• "When I was told for me to reach the highest level of heaven I would have to participate in 'The Blood Atonement' inside of The Mormon temple and that my husband would be required to have multiple wives to reach that same heaven."

• "When my brother started asking (politely) how our religion was founded and how our family got involved and generally just questions about life, and they would bite his head off about it"

• "When my church made me throw away all my first edition hard cover Harry Potter books because they were 'evil'. I was not even allowed to sell them, so that I would not cause others to 'stumble'."

• "When my mom said that I was so bad at housekeeping that if I got abused by my future husband, 'he would be within his rights to do so as head of the household'."

• "When my other friends came to my church for the first time, and they were uncomfortable, and they all started telling me my church was weird."

• "When my parents gave my college fund to the church and told me that college was a waste of time for people who believed in God."

• "When my parents told me they would let me die rather than allow me to get certain life-saving medical procedures."

• "When my pastor and my youth pastor took me aside during a church camp and said they were worried about my salvation as I had not led anyone in the sinner's prayer and did not go on 'visitation', which was door knocking on Sunday afternoons to talk about Jesus."

• "When my sister got pregnant out of wedlock, went to the elders (group of old men residing over congregation) to confess, and repent, they decided to disfellowship her, meaning all other Jehovah's witnesses had to shun her, even immediate family."

• "When my step brother only had to pray for forgiveness after molesting me, no other actions were taken."

• "When my then husband beat the s**t out of me and for some reason HE called the elders over to help and the elders told me 'Be a better wife so he does not get angry'."

• "When my youth group leader said that telling poor people about Jesus was more important than feeding them or housing them."

• "When people from church started arriving at my house unannounced and inviting themselves in to talk about my church attendance."

• "When Scientology took our second house."

• "When the leader kept my mom up for 2 days straight. He was making her cook, clean, be on him hand and foot all while berating her. yelled at her she was an evil woman going to hell, he was too godly for her, et cetera. 3 AM and I hear him screaming at her, all biblical bs, and she is crying. she broke down and he drove my mom, my sister and I to the ER and said she had to check herself into mental health because she is psychotic."

• "When the leader openly claimed that he could save our souls if we confess our sins to him (in great detail) and work out our salvation by doing chores and manual labor for him (without pay)."

• "When the leadership ignored me after they found out I was unemployed, with little money and no property to speak of."

• "When the leadership started teaching that voting for anyone other than a Republican would send a person straight to Hell."

• "When they basically told me that since I showed most of the other fruits of the spirit like love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, et cetera, they thought I was Christian but since I openly boycotted visitation and had not borne any of the "bringing new sheep into the flock" fruit by leading anyone in the sinners prayer, I could not possibly be a full Christian and they wanted me to work on that."

• "When the leadership blamed my own 'liberal lifestyle' (I drove a Prius) for the decline in youth membership."

• "When they got really controlling during online services. They made you angle your camera a specific way, wear certain clothes, not sit so close to your spouse, et cetera."

• "When they kept telling me that only men could be leaders, and women were supposed to be silent, demure, secondary, and subservient."

• "When they made the choir sign Non-Disclosure Agreements (NDAs) over hymns."

• "When they realized that I realized (sorry for the game of words), the whole community started acting strange, too many attentions, too many smiles, very creepy."

• "When they told me I was not supposed to make friends with any other kids unless they went to our church."

• "When they told me I was not to use any other version of the Bible except the KJV in English, because 'that's how Jesus spoke'."

• "When they told members to park behind the church to hide their cars so they would not get reported for gathering during the height of the pandemic."

• "When we were taught to be terrified of anything that remotely criticizes the religion and its leaders."

• "When we were told that we could not go to college. I was about 15 when I realized that we were not allowed to. The elders said it was because of the end time coming and wasting time and worry about fellowship in the world."

• "When, in a prayer, said they loved the leader of the church more than anyone else."



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08 Aug 2022, 8:38 am

That's a lot of reasons.

Some of them are along the lines of the church being too strict and making the people feel not good enough. There are some Christian teachers who emphasise 'you are good enough'



Fnord
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08 Aug 2022, 8:41 am

klanka wrote:
That's a lot of reasons.

Some of them are along the lines of the church being too strict and making the people feel not good enough. There are some Christian teachers who emphasise 'you are good enough'
In my experience, it is more like, "You will never be good enough unless we say so!" from self-proclaimed and self-righteous 'gatekeepers' of salvation (i.e., the church leaders).



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08 Aug 2022, 9:25 am

Fnord wrote:
I have compiled a list of reasons people gave as to why they left the various 'Christian' churches.  Here it is, in its entirety:...




Hmm, This Should Be One of Those Copy and Paste
Gimmicks on Facebook; i Will Think of A Few FRiEndS
Even in A Trump Town USA Who Might Actually DO IT;

Anyway, One Word
To Say in Affirmation
Of Every Word On the List:

Amen;

iF iT Ain't Love
For All With
Least Harm
i Ain't Doing IT...

Thank You For Your Attention
Fnord To Detail in Big Picture Way

Of Christianity Indeed aS Overall
Practiced i Also Do See For God Damned Real..:)



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