The HORRIFIC Torture Of The Women Of The Battle Of Berlin

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cyberdad
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24 Nov 2022, 2:28 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Worst part is the second bomb was dropped expirimenetally to see what would happen. Even dropping the first one was extreme but people felt it was nessisary...dropping the second one was not even seen as necessary but they still dropped it. Idk I feel it is one of the most disgusting things this country has ever done....I just don't feel it is right to nuke civilians ever.


The cost analysis of using nuclear bombs is no different to carpet bombing of Dresden. The Japanese imperial forces would have fought to the death (according to Bushido code) and cost the Americans perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives.

There may be several million Americans alive today who might not exist had emperor Hirohito not been forced to surrender. As with the Germans, the Japanese experienced karma for all the atrocities they committed. Not a single Asian who lived under Japanese occupation would have shed a tear for the japanese civilians who died in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Same with the millions of survivors of German occupation would have never shed a single tear for the German civilians who suffered under Russian occupation.

It's called natural law/order of things. Karma.

And before certain people try and report me to the mods...no I don't condone the deaths of German or Japanese civilians but I do understand the sentiment toward them getting their comeuppance.



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24 Nov 2022, 2:58 am

And the revenge by Stalin taken on the Women / people of Berlin was criminal . When you have won a War .
Taken a capitol city ..what would be the point ? (Not sure but after a Capital has fallen. Often it is considered the country has fallen ?) . Nothing like adding alittle extra PTSD to the civilian non-combatants for just being there.
And cannot cite the specific example. But it has long been known, from my previous research regarding WW2 and the messed up economics that went into a War ..oddly enough the tracks for the Railroad that supplied “Dachau’s “
Concentration camps laid by the prisoners were imported from the USA . 8O

Another strange thing , some of the drones downed by the Ukrainians the parts inside guidance components were US made also . According to a few brief News blurbs by a few News stations in the Midwest

Check this conspiracy theory below:
Gotta wonder if Wars are a product of the Ultra secret G6. Or 7 Summits . Well we cannot directly cull the population of the Earth , So let’s have Wars ..to serve as a mass Eugenics program. :skull:
Just think sending young virile men into harms way . Would easily cut off the chance of future offspring of those same men or women . :twisted:


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24 Nov 2022, 3:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Worst part is the second bomb was dropped expirimenetally to see what would happen. Even dropping the first one was extreme but people felt it was nessisary...dropping the second one was not even seen as necessary but they still dropped it. Idk I feel it is one of the most disgusting things this country has ever done....I just don't feel it is right to nuke civilians ever.


The cost analysis of using nuclear bombs is no different to carpet bombing of Dresden. The Japanese imperial forces would have fought to the death (according to Bushido code) and cost the Americans perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives.

There may be several million Americans alive today who might not exist had emperor Hirohito not been forced to surrender. As with the Germans, the Japanese experienced karma for all the atrocities they committed. Not a single Asian who lived under Japanese occupation would have shed a tear for the japanese civilians who died in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Same with the millions of survivors of German occupation would have never shed a single tear for the German civilians who suffered under Russian occupation.

It's called natural law/order of things. Karma.

And before certain people try and report me to the mods...no I don't condone the deaths of German or Japanese civilians but I do understand the sentiment toward them getting their comeuppance.


In all fairness though, the German and Japanese civilians killed in those bombings couldn't be held responsible for what their totalitarian governments and militaries had done. Though I understand why people who have been hurt wouldn't see the difference between guilty and innocent, just national identities, as wrong as that attitude is.


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24 Nov 2022, 3:03 am

Looks like US GI’s did a lot of raping in France

http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2 ... s.html?m=1

Quote:
. Mass Rape And Abuse Of French Women By American Soldiers During WW2


Then there’s Japan:

http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2 ... recent&m=1

Quote:
. Rape And Abuse of Japanese Women By American Soldiers During WW2


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24 Nov 2022, 4:14 am

carlos55 wrote:
Looks like US GI’s did a lot of raping in France

http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2 ... s.html?m=1

Quote:
. Mass Rape And Abuse Of French Women By American Soldiers During WW2


Then there’s Japan:

http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2 ... recent&m=1

Quote:
. Rape And Abuse of Japanese Women By American Soldiers During WW2


It might not be popular to say, as we're always thanking military personnel for their service, but a lot of soldiers have always had a reputation for behaving badly, no matter what army they serve in.


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cyberdad
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24 Nov 2022, 4:51 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
It might not be popular to say, as we're always thanking military personnel for their service, but a lot of soldiers have always had a reputation for behaving badly, no matter what army they serve in.


The truth is never popular. Germany and Japan were rebuilt after the war and they used the spoils of war to became economic powerhouses and most of the perpetrators/collaborators of the atrocities (including those committed by allies such as Croatia, Ukraine and the Baltic states) managed to integrate quietly back into positions of influence and power. This is the unpalatable truth.

The OP is indirectly making an attempt (whether intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know) to whitewash nazi crimes by invoking the rape of German women using Putin's invasion of Ukraine which in my view is a non-sequitur. As other posters have mentioned, even US troops raped German, French and Japanese women during the war. What the Russian troops did was hardly unique and if the OP is pleading about the scale of the atrocities it seems to be tone deaf (to me anyway) given German troops did 100x worse.



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24 Nov 2022, 7:35 am

cyberdad wrote:
((...) Croatia, Ukraine and the Baltic states) managed to integrate quietly back into positions of influence and power.
:lmao:
Such "positions of influence and power" that none of them was even theoretically independent for decades after WWII XD
Croatia had to fight a war for recognizing their independence in the 1990s and Ukraine is doing it now.
Totally "integrate quietly back into positions of influence and power", sure. /s
Not to mention all the attrocities done to them during "the second occupation", which is way less funny. Unfunny Latvian potato jokes were not made up from sheer fantasy, unfortunately.

If you really want to think of collaborators that made it out well, I suggest looking at Scandinavian states instead. Maybe Vichy France, too? And Switzerland that got really rich on wartime money laundering.


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magz
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24 Nov 2022, 9:05 am

This thread reminded me of a quote from a book I read long ago... and now I found it.
From honest Russian perspective.

Quote:
Still damp from the battle of the day before, yesterday
they had gotten drunk, and on the outskirts of the village broke
into a bath where they had noticed two raunchy broads going to
bathe. The girls, half-dressed, managed to get away all right
from the soldiers' staggering, drunken legs. But one of them, it
turned out, was the property of the army Chief of Counterintelli-
gence, no less.
Yes! For three weeks the war had been going on inside Ger-
many, and all of us knew very well that if the girls were German
they could be raped and then shot. This was almost a combat
distinction.
Had they been Polish girls or our own displaced
Russian girls, they could have been chased naked around the
garden and slapped on the behind-an amusement, no more.
But just because this one was the "campaign wife" of the Chief
of Counterintelligence, right off some deep-in-the-rear sergeant
had viciously torn from three front-line officers the shoulder
boards awarded them by the front headquarters and had taken
off the decorations conferred upon them by the Presidium of the
Supreme Soviet.

The Gulag Archipelago.
A book totally not about what this thread is about... it mentioned it casually. From a perspective of Russian soldiers.
When I was reading this book many years ago, this casual detail chilled me enough to still stay in my memory.

You know... I do recommend this read.


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24 Nov 2022, 11:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
Looks like US GI’s did a lot of raping in France

http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2 ... s.html?m=1

Quote:
. Mass Rape And Abuse Of French Women By American Soldiers During WW2


Then there’s Japan:

http://uncensoredhistory.blogspot.com/2 ... recent&m=1

Quote:
. Rape And Abuse of Japanese Women By American Soldiers During WW2


It might not be popular to say, as we're always thanking military personnel for their service, but a lot of soldiers have always had a reputation for behaving badly, no matter what army they serve in.


I pretty much lost respect for our military after seeing the photos from Abu Ghraib.



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24 Nov 2022, 11:54 am

Now , I have to invoke a bit of historical reasoning here , about the Nazi and the often written about pure Aryan blood being drilled into their troops . So rape might be an offence to the purity of the Aryan race ?????
But who knows the mentalities of a conquering armies ??.


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magz
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24 Nov 2022, 12:28 pm

Jakki wrote:
Now , I have to invoke a bit of historical reasoning here , about the Nazi and the often written about pure Aryan blood being drilled into their troops . So rape might be an offence to the purity of the Aryan race ?????
But who knows the mentalities of a conquering armies ??.

Based on, e.g., the fragment I quoted (written by Red Army soldiers themselves), the mentality of the conquering army was: because we can!


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24 Nov 2022, 12:46 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Worst part is the second bomb was dropped expirimenetally to see what would happen. Even dropping the first one was extreme but people felt it was nessisary...dropping the second one was not even seen as necessary but they still dropped it. Idk I feel it is one of the most disgusting things this country has ever done....I just don't feel it is right to nuke civilians ever.


The cost analysis of using nuclear bombs is no different to carpet bombing of Dresden. The Japanese imperial forces would have fought to the death (according to Bushido code) and cost the Americans perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives.

There may be several million Americans alive today who might not exist had emperor Hirohito not been forced to surrender. As with the Germans, the Japanese experienced karma for all the atrocities they committed. Not a single Asian who lived under Japanese occupation would have shed a tear for the japanese civilians who died in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Same with the millions of survivors of German occupation would have never shed a single tear for the German civilians who suffered under Russian occupation.

It's called natural law/order of things. Karma.

And before certain people try and report me to the mods...no I don't condone the deaths of German or Japanese civilians but I do understand the sentiment toward them getting their comeuppance.


Nukes were fair I think. Like you said comeuppance. Being civilians doesn't automatically absolve them of culpability.

Civilians are acceptable targets depending on how they behave and their beliefs. (Yes, I actually said beliefs). Overall japanese sentiment of the public at the time of WW2 was disgusting. The atrocities in China and the whole "Meh" from the Japanese public was bad enough.

Rape of Berlin? I dunno. It's just a city compared to an entire country. I think a lot of Germans were against the Nazi government too.



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24 Nov 2022, 12:56 pm

Nades wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Worst part is the second bomb was dropped expirimenetally to see what would happen. Even dropping the first one was extreme but people felt it was nessisary...dropping the second one was not even seen as necessary but they still dropped it. Idk I feel it is one of the most disgusting things this country has ever done....I just don't feel it is right to nuke civilians ever.


The cost analysis of using nuclear bombs is no different to carpet bombing of Dresden. The Japanese imperial forces would have fought to the death (according to Bushido code) and cost the Americans perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives.

There may be several million Americans alive today who might not exist had emperor Hirohito not been forced to surrender. As with the Germans, the Japanese experienced karma for all the atrocities they committed. Not a single Asian who lived under Japanese occupation would have shed a tear for the japanese civilians who died in Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Same with the millions of survivors of German occupation would have never shed a single tear for the German civilians who suffered under Russian occupation.

It's called natural law/order of things. Karma.

And before certain people try and report me to the mods...no I don't condone the deaths of German or Japanese civilians but I do understand the sentiment toward them getting their comeuppance.


Nukes were fair I think. Like you said comeuppance. Being civilians doesn't automatically absolve them of culpability.

Civilians are acceptable targets depending on how they behave and their beliefs. (Yes, I actually said beliefs). Overall japanese sentiment of the public at the time of WW2 was disgusting. The atrocities in China and the whole "Meh" from the Japanese public was bad enough.

Rape of Berlin? I dunno. It's just a city compared to an entire country. I think a lot of Germans were against the Nazi government too.



Irony... Now I'm starting to understand why people now hate the US so much given our own "meh" attitudes



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24 Nov 2022, 1:08 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It might not be popular to say, as we're always thanking military personnel for their service, but a lot of soldiers have always had a reputation for behaving badly, no matter what army they serve in.


The truth is never popular. Germany and Japan were rebuilt after the war and they used the spoils of war to became economic powerhouses and most of the perpetrators/collaborators of the atrocities (including those committed by allies such as Croatia, Ukraine and the Baltic states) managed to integrate quietly back into positions of influence and power. This is the unpalatable truth.

The OP is indirectly making an attempt (whether intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know) to whitewash nazi crimes by invoking the rape of German women using Putin's invasion of Ukraine which in my view is a non-sequitur. As other posters have mentioned, even US troops raped German, French and Japanese women during the war. What the Russian troops did was hardly unique and if the OP is pleading about the scale of the atrocities it seems to be tone deaf (to me anyway) given German troops did 100x worse.


I think the Marshal Plan had had more to do with Germany and Japan rising from the ashes, as the vanquished rarely can use the spoils of war to their advantage. We and the Soviets actually had used war spoils to build the Post WWII world order.


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magz
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24 Nov 2022, 2:33 pm

Nades wrote:
Rape of Berlin? I dunno. It's just a city compared to an entire country.
It wasn't just Berlin. German women were considered free game everywhere the Red Army reached.
The events described in the quote from The Gulag Archipelago took place when the army was around Brodnica.

Soviet army rapes and looting were infamous around other ethnicities, too (stories from both my and my husband's family confirm...), but German women had it the worst.


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24 Nov 2022, 2:54 pm

magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
Rape of Berlin? I dunno. It's just a city compared to an entire country.
It wasn't just Berlin. German women were considered free game everywhere the Red Army reached.
The events described in the quote from The Gulag Archipelago took place when the army was around Brodnica.

Soviet army rapes and looting were infamous around other ethnicities, too (stories from both my and my husband's family confirm...), but German women had it the worst.



Kinda reminds me of the rapes that more than likely occurred here in the US during the American Civil War when the Union invaded the Southern States

Hate the Confederacy for trying to preserve slavery, and you guys can hate movies like Gone With the Wind too for whitewashing slavery. But I believe one of the things that made that movie so memorable for decades was when Scarlett O'hara picked up a gun to defend herself from a Union soldier trying to rob and possibly rape her which often happens during every war. I can picture many women applauding her for defending herself regardless if she was on the "wrong side of history".

Another example of this was when the last female samurai Takeko Nakano led an army of armed Japanese women along with her mother and sister to defend their clan from the Emperor's invading forces. They were determined to fight back for their clan's survival rather than roll over and get raped and sold or forced into ritual suicide

https://youtu.be/zQouh5yczWI