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Dox47
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28 Nov 2022, 1:14 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I guess I got confused because of all the flame bait dox has been posting everywhere else... maybe im having one of my 'crazy' paranoid times again? I honestly dont know.


I'm being brusque because I'm on a phone and that limits my ability to format my posts the way I'd like, and since I've been busy lately a bunch of people have crept back on posting unsupported, foolish, tone deaf takes that need to occasionally be beaten back, yourself included.

You may not know this, but I spend a ton of time keeping up with news and politics and the facts behind them, money too in the form of the multiple paid subscriptions I hold for the handful of reporters who've proven trustworthy over the years, and that shows in that I'm confident in challenging you to find more than a handful of factual errors in my entire posting record here over the years, let alone any that I didn't acknowledge and correct when they were brought to my attention. Given that I put that effort in, it offends me when I come on here and the place is overrun by ignorant jackasses spewing easily disproved nonsense with the conviction of religious zealots, and I'm then expected to be nice to them, in fact I get threatened when I point out true things such as who is most frequently lying, or who has a poor understanding of the world, etc. I'm tired of the false civility, it feels dishonest to me at this point, particularly when it forces me to coddle people who in my opinion should be encouraged to post less, or to at the very least post with greater quality.


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IsabellaLinton
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28 Nov 2022, 1:14 am

^^

I never said that you said that they shouldn't. :twisted:

None of what I've written was a criticism of your post at all.
I'm just rambling about the topic writ large.

I don't know of people called masculinists, so I don't like to use the term feminist.
I prefer "humanist".

That's not to be political or to say gender doesn't exist for people who want it to exist.
We are human beings first and foremost.
We all have the same rights and freedoms under the law.

imo all people are equal, unless they prove themselves subhuman or an asshat.



DeathFlowerKing
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28 Nov 2022, 1:25 am

Maybe you're right, but I'm already starting to feel like I screwed up my own topic when I was just trying to have a meaningful discussion without drama. Ive been trying my best not to lose my s**t for stupid reasons as I know you both know I have done MANY times before on here.

I can't even trust my own judgement when I feel intimidated like this. That's what I really hate about my mental illness (bipolar disorder type 1 with psychotic episodes) Im not easy to talk to I get it.


So... whatever. f**k it all :D



IsabellaLinton
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28 Nov 2022, 1:29 am

I think the pretty / rich-looking woman in the meme I posted caused you and Dox to think the message was rude.

It's subliminal to think thin, pretty women must be criticising men.

Imagine the same quote paired with a less-feminine looking woman or even with a man.



DeathFlowerKing
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28 Nov 2022, 1:34 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think the pretty / rich-looking woman in the meme I posted caused you and Dox to think the message was rude.

It's subliminal to think thin, pretty women must be criticising men.

Imagine the same quote paired with a less-feminine looking woman or even with a man.



I didnt even think of that... she did look kind of smug in that picture so my first reaction I think was that it was something meant to be unpleasant.

Here I am trying to say it's not right to judge women even in an overly and unrealisticically positive way and what do I do? Pass quick judgement over a woman.

Man I feel pretty foolish right now. I apologize. :oops:



Dox47
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28 Nov 2022, 1:35 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
If a person judges others by their gender or thinks "people who respect women" aren't "normal", then they SHOULD be called a bigot. That being said you aren't a bigot at all. Last I checked you respect all people unless they're boneheads.


I'm actually much squishier on the whole bonehead thing than my posting tenor might indicate, I can't stand snooty intellectual types (real contempt comes from familiarity, read into that what you will), it's conformity and rigidity that I truly despise. That, and certainty, I spend so much of my mental energy assigning probability to things and weighing how much of my reputation I'm willing to bet on a statement that it really grinds my gears when someone bursts in and starts spraying absolutes everywhere, it's a bit like waving a red cape at me.

As to the bigotry thing, I find that the whole concept has become so degraded through linguistic creep and being weaponized that it's increasingly useless; I stick to the old definitions, that in order to be racist a person must actually think that other races have inherent negative traits, where as sexism is a little trickier because I do believe in sexual dimorphism and innate differences, so that's a tougher hair to split. I do draw a hard line between bigotry and insensitivity though that seems to confuse a lot of people, the idea that you can't know everything about someone's beliefs based on what words and euphemisms they use or don't use.


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Dox47
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28 Nov 2022, 1:36 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I think the pretty / rich-looking woman in the meme I posted caused you and Dox to think the message was rude.

It's subliminal to think thin, pretty women must be criticising men.

Imagine the same quote paired with a less-feminine looking woman or even with a man.


I'll be completely honest, if it was of a dumpy looking woman or a dude, I'd have thought it was a satirical right wing meme.


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IsabellaLinton
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28 Nov 2022, 1:38 am

We all reacted in different ways by our expectation of the topic.
But ... If you read our posts again you'll realise we're all saying the same thing.
I think it's interesting.

I debated not using that meme because I had a feeling it would seem inflammatory.
I had to read it about five times to make sure it wasn't misandrist.

It's sad that we don't take beautiful women seriously.



DeathFlowerKing
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28 Nov 2022, 1:46 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
We all reacted in different ways by our expectation of the topic.
But ... If you read our posts again you'll realise we're all saying the same thing.
I think it's interesting.

I debated not using that meme because I had a feeling it would seem inflammatory.
I had to read it about five times to make sure it wasn't misandrist.

It's sad that we don't take beautiful women seriously.


I actually agree with that too, because my mom also taught me that "pretty girls" often get judged harshly and bullied too. Which is a truth most people seem blind to. My mom never thought of herself as pretty but she was skinny and she often got rude comments from overweight women who were jealous and would say things to her like "You need to eat a cheeseburger!"

Women really do get judged harshly by society no matter what. I think must really suck! :|



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28 Nov 2022, 1:52 am

Dox47 wrote:
As to the bigotry thing, I find that the whole concept has become so degraded through linguistic creep and being weaponized that it's increasingly useless; I stick to the old definitions, that in order to be racist a person must actually think that other races have inherent negative traits, where as sexism is a little trickier because I do believe in sexual dimorphism and innate differences, so that's a tougher hair to split. I do draw a hard line between bigotry and insensitivity though that seems to confuse a lot of people, the idea that you can't know everything about someone's beliefs based on what words and euphemisms they use or don't use.



I define "racist" as a person who thinks race is a causative or determining factor of any personality trait / skill, whether positive or negative.

I think it's racist to say "Ethnic Group A is good at ____________ ", just like it's considered racist to say "Ethnic Group A is bad at ________________ " , when speaking in generalisations or without scientific / clinical data.

This is different from appreciating or celebrating race and ethnicity.
It's using race to create assumptions or prejudice (the literal meaning of "pre-judgement" before meeting someone).

"Racist" with that definition or in that context isn't always pejorative.
Someone who studies evolutionary biology might very well be able to pre-judge a culture's strengths and weaknesses.

I agree sexism is a little harder to define.
It's OK to appreciate and celebrate gender, just like it's OK to be gender dysphoric or trans / NB.



Dox47
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28 Nov 2022, 1:55 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's sad that we don't take beautiful women seriously.


It's such a double edged sword, "pink privilege" is a very real thing in the criminal justice system, and attractiveness gives you so much leeway that most people are just completely unaware of. It's super obvious at my work, we have a process for when the warehouse people send us the wrong parts to build that leaves a paper trail on their employee record, and the cute girls have to make much larger and harder to cover up mistakes before our department decides to actually fill out the paperwork rather than just go grab the parts vs if it's some fat guy or something. It works for men too, it's just usually less blatant.


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IsabellaLinton
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28 Nov 2022, 2:01 am

Dox47 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
It's sad that we don't take beautiful women seriously.


It's such a double edged sword, "pink privilege" is a very real thing in the criminal justice system, and attractiveness gives you so much leeway that most people are just completely unaware of. It's super obvious at my work, we have a process for when the warehouse people send us the wrong parts to build that leaves a paper trail on their employee record, and the cute girls have to make much larger and harder to cover up mistakes before our department decides to actually fill out the paperwork rather than just go grab the parts vs if it's some fat guy or something. It works for men too, it's just usually less blatant.


I agree.

Try being a woman who is judged by other women, especially as an autistic.
We don't "measure up" to other women, but men still see us as privileged.
Both groups are suspicious of us.

Women can be cut-throat against one another.
It's so much more insidious and competitive than men would imagine.

I'm sure it's very frustrating for men to see this privilege.
My point is it's also hard being judged as one of them when you feel like another species.



Dox47
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28 Nov 2022, 2:03 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I define "racist" as a person who thinks race is a causative or determining factor of any personality trait / skill, whether positive or negative.


I do think you'll run into the occasional conundrum with that definition, the on the nose example being why black Americans dominate sports and music so disproportionately to their population numbers. A Canadian ex GF of mine asked me about that once, and I looked her straight in the eye and said "I'm not sure, and never speak of this in public again", lol.

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I agree sexism is a little harder to define.
It's OK to appreciate and celebrate gender, just like it's OK to be gender dysphoric or trans / NB.


I think I've mentioned this before, but I took martial arts off and on for years and did a lot of co ed sparring and grappling, and the ease with which I could overpower in shape women who were far more skilled than I was was illuminating, as they say in car racing "there is no replacement for displacement", at least when it comes to weight and muscle mass.

My issues with GD/Trans stuff are much more about the cultural norms and shoddy science than any issues with the people themselves, I've known enough of them to not wish that particular hell on anyone, however I'm very concerned with the activist zeal to pathologize and medicalize everything that defies gender norms (and shut down anyone who questions it), but that's pretty standard issue for my difficulties with the progressive left.


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Pepe
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28 Nov 2022, 2:12 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I guess haters like you two are always gonna hate huh?



I'm a hater?

LMAO Are you OK?
Need a joint? A shot of whiskey? A vaycay?
How can I help?


His comment was out of left field, yes. 8)


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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28 Nov 2022, 2:13 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Just treat them the same as anyone else, no better and no worse.


Exactly. Judge people by the content of their heart rather than the content of their panties.


Or lack of. :mrgreen: 8O :oops:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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28 Nov 2022, 2:20 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I guess I got confused because of all the flame bait dox has been posting everywhere else... maybe im having one of my 'crazy' paranoid times again? I honestly dont know.

My sincerest apologies for that...

But anyways I'm not afraid to identify as a feminist, but I think my views are more old school. Or at least I'm discovering that they should be.


Dox is one of the most intelligent ppl on this website.
I suggest you meditate on what he says and why he says it, grasshopper. :ninja:

I don't agree with everything he says, but I understand the depth of experience and clarity of thought behind what is said. 8)

Dox fanboy, signing off. :heart:


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.