What will actually happen when the 'American Empire' falls?

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DeathFlowerKing
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29 Nov 2022, 12:28 pm

Not saying i actually WANT that to happen to my country (ok... maybe I do sometimes like I did when I learned about the tortures in Abu Ghraib or while Trumpy was president or learned of the fact that Hawaii was annexed illegally and had their entire culture ruined by colonists)


But if we can be real here, we all know deep down that the US is starting to fail. The red flags are all there.

So what exactly comes next for the world and for us after our own Rome-style collapse? That's what I wish to discuss here.



magz
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29 Nov 2022, 12:37 pm

First of all, I think we shoud define "American Empire".
British Empire collapsed and it means it shrinked to the British Isles, several states gained independence and some remain formally part of the empire but practically doing their own politics. And some Carribean states want independence now.
Similar with other European colonial empires.

USA is not this kind of empire. They don't have a core territory and colonies. Worldwide influence of USA may some day dwindle but I don't see signs of it right now. USA itself might fall apart? Maybe. Things happen.

Rome collapsed in a long process, so slow that it was practically invisible for its contemporaries.


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Aspiegaming
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29 Nov 2022, 12:45 pm

If America collapses, it will rise again as something unAmerican. Expect a victory for fascism, fundamentalist Christianity, right-wing extremism, white nationalism, and plutocracy all in one hard to swallow yet forced down your throat anyway combo.


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DeathFlowerKing
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29 Nov 2022, 12:47 pm

magz wrote:
First of all, I think we shoud define "American Empire".
British Empire collapsed and it means it shrinked to the British Isles, several states gained independence and some remain formally part of the empire but practically doing their own politics. And some Carribean states want independence now.
Similar with other European colonial empires.

USA is not this kind of empire. They don't have a core territory and colonies. Worldwide influence of USA may some day dwindle but I don't see signs of it right now. USA itself might fall apart? Maybe. Things happen.

Rome collapsed in a long process, so slow that it was practically invisible for its contemporaries.


So maybe we'll do like the USSR and break off into individual states with some doing better off or worst than others?

And I'm not sure America's influence is not dwindling tbh. I think the rest of the world is slowly starting to realize we're not exactly the most reliable ally.

Take Ukraine for example. I worry every day what will happen once the GOP takes back power considering many of them don't actually want to support Ukraine in this war with Russia. You even have whackjobs in American politics now who seem to be on Putin's side.

Oh and then there's the issue with the CCP gaining more influence in the affairs of other countries like mine



DeathFlowerKing
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29 Nov 2022, 12:49 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
If America collapses, it will rise again as something unAmerican. Expect a victory for fascism, fundamentalist Christianity, right-wing extremism, white nationalism, and plutocracy all in one hard to swallow yet forced down your throat anyway combo.


Basically a cross between The Handmaid's Tale and Beerfest? :lol:

https://youtu.be/jL5LaLT2BJM



magz
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29 Nov 2022, 2:11 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
So maybe we'll do like the USSR and break off into individual states with some doing better off or worst than others?
USSR also had its "center" (Russia) and "peripheries" (the republics), with classical imperialist power imbalance. Its collapse was all about the republics gaining independence.
Even today's Russia is like that, with youth from Moscow or Petersburg living lives completely different to people from Buryatia or Dagestan.
USA is not like that, I think. Or at least I wouldn't be able to identify the "core" and the "peripheries".

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
And I'm not sure America's influence is not dwindling tbh. I think the rest of the world is slowly starting to realize we're not exactly the most reliable ally.

Take Ukraine for example. I worry every day what will happen once the GOP takes back power considering many of them don't actually want to support Ukraine in this war with Russia. You even have whackjobs in American politics now who seem to be on Putin's side.
But this dependence exactly means USA influence remains very strong. Will some Trump-like idiot waste it? Maybe. Then UK will jump the opportunity to increase their influence. We're going to hold, even if East European states remain the only allies to Ukraine (that would be a funny reincarnation of the historical empire of Poland-Lithuania, by the way. The very nemesis of Moscow :mrgreen: )

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Oh and then there's the issue with the CCP gaining more influence in the affairs of other countries like mine
CCP is a whole big topic...


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29 Nov 2022, 2:35 pm

A country with high per head productivity which is also very large should is just powerful, not an empire.

Seeing you put American Empire in quotations I assume you understand it's just a phrase used to describe the above.

With the rise of India in particular they might get upstaged but it will never be a catastrophic collapse. It's just what happens over time. Countries (like mega corps) always go up and down the ladder. Unlike mega corps they rarely just implode and neither will the USA.



DeathFlowerKing
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29 Nov 2022, 7:31 pm

So if the US is not collapsing then why is the media always filled with stories about everything from mass shootings to our basic infrastructure collapsing?


I mean I do think the news exaggerates things for ratings, but some of this stuff happening you can't really make up. Like the coup attempt on January 6th and the way supporters of Trump and the GOP reacted to that.

And sorry I don't care what anyone says I think another civil war is a possibility in our future and we should all be prepared for the consequences of it instead of burying our heads in the sand.



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29 Nov 2022, 8:35 pm

If America falls, I'd expect the country to splinter into smaller countries based on regional identities and possibly political ideologies. Some of these new countries would be culturally forward thinking and probably wealthier, while others would become North American pockets of the third world, plagued with ignorance, corruption, and poverty. I think a look at present day America would serve as foreshadowing for what to expect if my prediction is on target.


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DeathFlowerKing
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29 Nov 2022, 8:39 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
If America falls, I'd expect the country to splinter into smaller countries based on regional identities and possibly political ideologies. Some of these new countries would be culturally forward thinking and probably wealthier, while others would become North American pockets of the third world, plagued with ignorance, corruption, and poverty. I think a look at present day America would serve as foreshadowing for what to expect if my prediction is on target.


Sucks for me seeing how I live in Georgia. Hell ive lived in places in this state that really do feel like a third world country. :|



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29 Nov 2022, 10:58 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If America falls, I'd expect the country to splinter into smaller countries based on regional identities and possibly political ideologies. Some of these new countries would be culturally forward thinking and probably wealthier, while others would become North American pockets of the third world, plagued with ignorance, corruption, and poverty. I think a look at present day America would serve as foreshadowing for what to expect if my prediction is on target.


Sucks for me seeing how I live in Georgia. Hell ive lived in places in this state that really do feel like a third world country. :|


Take comfort in knowing it's also the home of Jimmy Carter, the most decent man ever to sit in the White House.


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30 Nov 2022, 2:13 am


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DeathFlowerKing
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30 Nov 2022, 8:15 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If America falls, I'd expect the country to splinter into smaller countries based on regional identities and possibly political ideologies. Some of these new countries would be culturally forward thinking and probably wealthier, while others would become North American pockets of the third world, plagued with ignorance, corruption, and poverty. I think a look at present day America would serve as foreshadowing for what to expect if my prediction is on target.


Sucks for me seeing how I live in Georgia. Hell ive lived in places in this state that really do feel like a third world country. :|


Take comfort in knowing it's also the home of Jimmy Carter, the most decent man ever to sit in the White House.


True. Carter was an example of how not everyone in Georgia is a bad person.

But there really is something about certain parts of this state. The ingrained racism and bigotry is very real and so is the classism. Plus people in Georgia have more religion and churches than they do common sense and education.

I imagine it's a problem for much of the Deep South though and not just Georgia.