Page 4 of 10 [ 152 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

14 Aug 2008, 8:17 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
ToadOfSteel wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
Orwell you reckon that atheists are a pain in the ass. Ever consider how much of a pain it is having superstitious clap trap rubbed in your face day after day.


Almost as much of a pain as having someone's opinion that my personal belief system (which I don't disseminate to the general public unless it's specifically solicited) is supposedly "superstitious clap trap" rubbed in my face all the time...

PS: No, I'm not a Jehovah's witness, I'm a mainstream Presbyterian...


Ahhhhh that is my point! I bet you dont get this sort of comment regularly, unfortunately for those of use that believe in reason and science we have to put up with the god hypothosis on an hour to hour basis, a great many religious believers cant keep it to themselves and then get upset when they meet the occasional atheist.

You see, this is precisely what we were talking about. On a fairly regular basis, people like you ridicule my personal beliefs, insinuate (or say outright) that I am delusional/irrational/superstitious/stupid for holding them, dismiss my own personal ideas, which I am NOT forcing on you, out of hand, and then b***h about what horrible people we are. It gets old. I don't mind meeting "the occasional atheist," I have nothing against atheists at all. It's just when they tell me I'm an idiot because of my beliefs, or that I am automatically less intelligent for believing in God that I get annoyed. And atheists do this A LOT!! !


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

14 Aug 2008, 9:11 pm

Thing is Orwell you do believe in something that constantly has to change its position every time science comes up with a credible explaination to one of its beliefs. eg

1. It was heresy to suggest that the earth was not the centre of the universe
2. Adam and Eve now become inteligent design and there is a serious hunt on to find something that proves irreducible complexity.
3. The earth is only 5000 years old, again completey blown out of the water. Hmm where did thos e dinosaurs come from

You cannot prove or disprove the existance of god, but the scientific data does suggest that god is highly improbable. If you refuse to look at science and carrying on in blind faith thats up to you. The reason Astheists get so pissed off is because unfounded religious belief makes its way into countries laws and creates havoc for many people. You get upset cos people ridicule you well try being homosexual and have laws passed against you because of religious belief. Atheists give religious believers a hard time because they disrupt so many lives

I have a rounded education on this subject. I went to a Roman Catholic school, was even an alter boy, conversly I have read Darwins Theory of evolution and other books arguing against god. I refuse to work on blind faith and superstition alone and find it disturbing that so many people do.

Until science proves otherwise or god comes to say hello. I will thnk religion is superstitious clap trap, originally formed by people to explain the unexplained and perpetuated by those that refuse to look at the evidence


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 56,438
Location: Stendec

14 Aug 2008, 9:24 pm

Faith in a divine being is merely belief in someone whose existance can not be proven.

Unfortunately, humans have mucked up that faith with religion, which is the political expression of faith.

"Believe as thou wilt, but the First Law is Love;
Therefore, above all else, thou shalt do no harm."


_________________
 
• Veritas Illuminata • Semper Illuminans •


slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

14 Aug 2008, 9:25 pm

Dent, you know scientific theories are not static. Religious doctrines are subject to change as well. Religion used to be the gatekeeper of science, but nowadays that's not the case. Religion, science, politics, all these things are interrelated.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

14 Aug 2008, 9:33 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Thing is Orwell you do believe in something that constantly has to change its position every time science comes up with a credible explaination to one of its beliefs. eg

1. It was heresy to suggest that the earth was not the centre of the universe

From the 5th century on, theologians have argued against literal interpretations of Genesis. I'm Protestant, we never persecuted heliocentrists.

Quote:
2. Adam and Eve now become inteligent design and there is a serious hunt on to find something that proves irreducible complexity.

Ha, I'm a biology major. Intelligent design and irreducible complexity are both a load of bull and not really anything to do with Christianity.

Quote:
3. The earth is only 5000 years old, again completey blown out of the water. Hmm where did thos e dinosaurs come from

Again, not my beliefs but those of some fringe morons. Nice collection of straw men, though.

Quote:
The reason Astheists get so pissed off is because unfounded religious belief makes its way into countries laws and creates havoc for many people. You get upset cos people ridicule you well try being homosexual and have laws passed against you because of religious belief.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm not in favor of passing any laws to reflect my religious values. Heck, I'm pro-gay marriage. Fallacy of composition is what you're committing here.

Quote:
I have a rounded education on this subject. I went to a Roman Catholic school, was even an alter boy, conversly I have read Darwins Theory of evolution and other books arguing against god.

Darwin was a Christian, buddy. His book doesn't argue against God, and his book isn't good science, either. I've read it, and much of what he believed is not accepted by any serious scientist today- after all, he knew nothing about genetics, since he didn't have access to Mendel's research.

Quote:
I refuse to work on blind faith and superstition alone and find it disturbing that so many people do.

It is not all "blind faith and superstition."

Quote:
Until science proves otherwise or god comes to say hello. I will thnk religion is superstitious clap trap, originally formed by people to explain the unexplained and perpetuated by those that refuse to look at the evidence

For you to claim such certainty like that is just an arrogant load of BS. If it were that simple, there would be no dispute because it would be obvious to everyone. Let's face it- neither you nor I know for sure, and it takes a certain level of faith for either of us to hold to our beliefs. I don't bash on atheists for their beliefs. Please return the favor.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

14 Aug 2008, 9:36 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Religion, science, politics, all these things are interrelated.

Only to people who insist on making them interrelated. To me, science and religion are separate spheres of knowledge. They address different questions, so how can they be in conflict? Only when you try to get everything you will ever know from a single source do you run into problems.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

14 Aug 2008, 9:43 pm

The gulf between science and religion is actually getting narrower, especialy since the advent of quantum physics.



greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,896
Location: Home

14 Aug 2008, 9:50 pm

Averick wrote:
Hey, I have relatives who are Jehova's Witnesses, and they never tried converting me.
In fact, they are the nicest people.

I met a person, who was nice a while ago, didn't try to convert us, he just gave us a magazine and that was it. So it depends on the situation when being with someone, in the case of a JW, I think he was not that devoted as others, might be so, some would feel the urge of converting you, which would be better to avoid, in the case of a JW, well, it is part of their doctrine, their duty for them to go spreading the word from house to house. and some of their dogma are pure nonesense (blood), although their rejection of the Trinity is quite interesting.


_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?


twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

14 Aug 2008, 9:54 pm

I'd rather have tea with a JW than talk to a Dawkinsian e-atheist. The former is more likely to be civil.

And not plagiarize someone else's lousy argument.


_________________
* here for the nachos.


Last edited by twoshots on 14 Aug 2008, 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

14 Aug 2008, 9:54 pm

slowmutant wrote:
The gulf between science and religion is actually getting narrower, especialy since the advent of quantum physics.


look for the number 15 and i guarantee you that you'll find it everywhere.



greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,896
Location: Home

14 Aug 2008, 9:59 pm

slowmutant wrote:
The gulf between science and religion is actually getting narrower, especialy since the advent of quantum physics.

We can almost touch God with the advent of the String Theory. ;)


_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 56,438
Location: Stendec

14 Aug 2008, 10:13 pm

greenblue wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
The gulf between science and religion is actually getting narrower, especialy since the advent of quantum physics.

We can almost touch God with the advent of the String Theory. ;)

... of neither is there any evidence, only faith in esoteric writings by obscure old men.


_________________
 
• Veritas Illuminata • Semper Illuminans •


twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

14 Aug 2008, 10:23 pm

Zing! but then is not String Theory bringing science closer to religion? :lol:


_________________
* here for the nachos.


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 56,438
Location: Stendec

14 Aug 2008, 10:32 pm

twoshots wrote:
Zing! but then is not String Theory bringing science closer to religion? :lol:

Maybe ... if you consider that only a special 'priesthood' of enlightened people who mutter an arcane labguage into their beards while enscribing their inspirations in illuminated tomes that will rarely (if ever) be taken outside of their cloistered cells to be shared with the rest of the world in any meaningfull way ... and that it takes a great leap of faith to believe in unprovable concepts like String Theory and God, even when invoking the past knowledge and wisdom of departed saints (Asimov, Einstein, Sagan, et cetera) then, yes, science is moving closer to religion.

Leave it to the religionists to muck up something as pure as scientific investigation.


_________________
 
• Veritas Illuminata • Semper Illuminans •


Paula
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Age: 61
Gender: Female
Posts: 728
Location: San Diego Calif

14 Aug 2008, 10:39 pm

I know a young man who was thinking about going back to church, he went where he use to live. But when he moved here he didn't know where to go and he fell into the worse group of friends he could have fallan into. He did see this one church but he didn't know it was a church because it didn't look like one. It was really close to where he lived. He told me if someone from there had invited him he would have gone. Instead noone talked to him except the friends he hung out with. The friends who he hung out beat him up and then dared him to shoot up his school. He is now in prison for the rest of his life. Whats wrong with this world???? Christians not doing what we are suppose to.



Kilroy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,549
Location: Beyond the Void

14 Aug 2008, 10:49 pm

I can see how religion can help someone there
I remember several cases of people trying to convert me, I just never liked the idea of religion
the idea of having to thank someone for something I rightfully did myself
if I ever meet a girl it will be because I did something, not God