Cleveland changing name from Indians to Guardians

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ASPartOfMe
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23 Jul 2021, 9:29 am

ESPN

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Known as the Indians since 1915, Cleveland's Major League Baseball team will next be called the Guardians.

The ballclub announced the name change Friday with a video on Twitter narrated by actor Tom Hanks, ending months of internal discussions triggered by a national reckoning by institutions and teams to permanently drop logos and names considered racist.

The name change is set to go into effect after the 2021 season.

In 2018, the Indians stopped wearing the contentious Chief Wahoo logo on their jerseys and caps. However, the team continues to sell merchandise bearing the smiling, red-faced caricature that has drawn protests for decades from Native American groups.


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23 Jul 2021, 9:37 am

Will this guy be their coach?

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23 Jul 2021, 10:28 am

Guarding what?

The mascot is a guard?


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23 Jul 2021, 11:11 am

Any word on WFT’s new name?


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23 Jul 2021, 4:56 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Guarding what?

The mascot is a guard?


Guardians of ...the Denver Broncos (who are not horses), Dallas Cowboys who ride nonexistent horses, and punch nonexistent cattle,...and of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers who plunder nonexistent ships on the high seas, and of the Seattle Seahawks (who dont have feathers, cant fly, much less catch fish like an osprey), and of the Chicago Bears (who dont have claws nor fur), and the Baltimore Ravens (who also dont have feathers), and so on with every other fantastically named NFL team.



roronoa79
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23 Jul 2021, 7:16 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Guarding what?

The mascot is a guard?

The name seems to be inspired by the Guardians of Traffic statues on the Hope Memorial Bridge in Cleveland. I imagine they're better known in Cleveland than anywhere else. I think I'll forgive anyone for not knowing Cleveland city landmarks (I sure don't know them).


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23 Jul 2021, 7:21 pm

Don't they respect Indians any more? What have Indians done to them that they have decided to change the name?



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23 Jul 2021, 7:33 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Don't they respect Indians any more? What have Indians done to them that they have decided to change the name?



They are showing respect for Native Americans by NO LONGER naming a team after them ( and also dropping the racist cartoon emblem).

Or thats the thinking.

Feel free to weigh in if you disagree with that thinking. But we have discussed related topics here before, because Americans have started to rethink some of their sports team names in recent years.



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23 Jul 2021, 7:39 pm

I hope they keep "the Atlanta Braves".

"Braves" is no worse than "Vikings", or "Spartans", IMHO. Ancient warriors (which happened to be associated with particular ethnic groups, are not as offensive as naming a team after an ethnic group (or an entire "race", like Indians)itself.



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23 Jul 2021, 8:52 pm

Guardians of the galaxy?



roronoa79
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23 Jul 2021, 11:34 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Don't they respect Indians any more? What have Indians done to them that they have decided to change the name?

Most Native Americans would rather sports teams such as the Indians change their names out of deference to the native community. Sports team names that don't have to do with where the team is (eg: Brewers (Wisconsin), Senators (Washington), Arsenal F.C. (the Royal Arsenal in London)) are often meant to seem fierce, intimidating, warlike (wildcats, eagles, bears, vikings). Indians in this case is used as the name not so much out of respect so much as so they could have a vaguely intimidating name. This is considered in poor taste as it frames the natives as warlike. Arguments that these names are used out of respect fall flat when one considers Native condemnation of these names, and the fact that Natives would rather we show our respect in more meaningful ways, like working to preserve their culture and improve their standards of living.


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26 Jul 2021, 12:11 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Don't they respect Indians any more? What have Indians done to them that they have decided to change the name?

Most Native Americans would rather sports teams such as the Indians change their names out of deference to the native community. Sports team names that don't have to do with where the team is (eg: Brewers (Wisconsin), Senators (Washington), Arsenal F.C. (the Royal Arsenal in London)) are often meant to seem fierce, intimidating, warlike (wildcats, eagles, bears, vikings). Indians in this case is used as the name not so much out of respect so much as so they could have a vaguely intimidating name. This is considered in poor taste as it frames the natives as warlike. Arguments that these names are used out of respect fall flat when one considers Native condemnation of these names, and the fact that Natives would rather we show our respect in more meaningful ways, like working to preserve their culture and improve their standards of living.


As far as visual depictions go, it’s similar to Muhammad?


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26 Jul 2021, 12:30 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Don't they respect Indians any more? What have Indians done to them that they have decided to change the name?

Most Native Americans would rather sports teams such as the Indians change their names out of deference to the native community. Sports team names that don't have to do with where the team is (eg: Brewers (Wisconsin), Senators (Washington), Arsenal F.C. (the Royal Arsenal in London)) are often meant to seem fierce, intimidating, warlike (wildcats, eagles, bears, vikings). Indians in this case is used as the name not so much out of respect so much as so they could have a vaguely intimidating name. This is considered in poor taste as it frames the natives as warlike. Arguments that these names are used out of respect fall flat when one considers Native condemnation of these names, and the fact that Natives would rather we show our respect in more meaningful ways, like working to preserve their culture and improve their standards of living.


As far as visual depictions go, it’s similar to Muhammad?


It's more like not appreciating being represented by insulting caricatures.

Among things, it's not an issue that indigenous people all feel the same about but overall it's not appreciated because most examples that exist aren't intended to be respectful, they're just trading off of 'oh, they're dangerous' stereotypes and then they draw some stereotyped representation and act like it's motivated by respect.


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26 Jul 2021, 12:40 pm

The Cleveland baseball club should be called the Naps like they were between about 1905 and 1915.

Nap is Napoleon Lajoie, who was an all-time great player for them.



roronoa79
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26 Jul 2021, 12:44 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Mountain Goat wrote:
Don't they respect Indians any more? What have Indians done to them that they have decided to change the name?

Most Native Americans would rather sports teams such as the Indians change their names out of deference to the native community. Sports team names that don't have to do with where the team is (eg: Brewers (Wisconsin), Senators (Washington), Arsenal F.C. (the Royal Arsenal in London)) are often meant to seem fierce, intimidating, warlike (wildcats, eagles, bears, vikings). Indians in this case is used as the name not so much out of respect so much as so they could have a vaguely intimidating name. This is considered in poor taste as it frames the natives as warlike. Arguments that these names are used out of respect fall flat when one considers Native condemnation of these names, and the fact that Natives would rather we show our respect in more meaningful ways, like working to preserve their culture and improve their standards of living.


As far as visual depictions go, it’s similar to Muhammad?

I'm not sure what aspect of that you're getting at exactly. The visual depiction of Chief Wahoo is a fairly offensive caricature with his exaggerated smile, feather, and cherry-red skin.

Muhammad is generally not meant to be visually depicted out of a theological precaution against idolatry (the opposite of what the Orthodox Christians do, I suppose). It's not emphatically forbidden 100% of the time--you can still find images of him in certain Muslim books, films about his life, documentaries, etc., but when one is not a Muslim it is better to err on the side of deference and not portray him visually. This is to say nothing of how offensive it is when cartoonists portray him as a terrorist with a bomb under his turban, for example. It's a sort of double insult where the desire to have him not depicted is ignored and the depiction is meant to actively insult.

Chief Wahoo isn't meant to insult, but he remains insulting nonetheless. I imagine that the logo for the Chicago Blackhawks, for example, is considered less offensive because it is not a cartoon caricature, but it's obviously still not ideal just because the team name is in poor taste.


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26 Jul 2021, 12:58 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Chief Wahoo isn't meant to insult, but he remains insulting nonetheless. I imagine that the logo for the Chicago Blackhawks, for example, is considered less offensive because it is not a cartoon caricature, but it's obviously still not ideal just because the team name is in poor taste.


The Blackhawks are paying tribute to a real person in the franchise's history, which obviously isn't true about Chief Wahoo.


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