F.B.I. Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

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DW_a_mom
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16 Aug 2022, 1:12 am

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
The originalist Supreme Court is going to be worse for you than you realize.


Not for me it's not, that alone is worth the chaos of the Trump years to me, and they're just getting started with the rolling back of the regulatory state, I hope Chevron deference is next on the chopping block.


If this board still exists in a few decades, why don't we check back in with each other and assess how it actually played out.


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Dox47
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16 Aug 2022, 1:14 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
If this board still exists in a few decades, why don't we check back in with each other and assess how it actually played out.


What are your dire predictions here? Keep in mind I really don't care about abortion and think most issues not explicitly laid out in the Constitution are better handled at the state level.


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DW_a_mom
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16 Aug 2022, 1:23 am

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
If this board still exists in a few decades, why don't we check back in with each other and assess how it actually played out.


What are your dire predictions here? Keep in mind I really don't care about abortion and think most issues not explicitly laid out in the Constitution are better handled at the state level.


The problem with the state level is that it is too easily controlled by narrow interests that aren't necessarily serving the best interests of the majority. States have been known to enact legislation that resulted in mass disenfranchisement of large segments of their populations, pervert justice, etc.

Basically it is a whole slew of personal and worker rights that could be threatened.


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Matrix Glitch
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16 Aug 2022, 1:31 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Under Obama I owed the IRS and extra $1200. By Trump's second year I only owed $75, and had gotten some pretty good pay raises, and prices were low. That's what counted. Not whatever he was blathering about on Twitter. He was delivering on prosperity.


If you’re going to play that game, from my seat, Trump was the worst president ever. Taxes up by thousands, environmental disasters affecting my life, my husband’s company dealt a death blow by tariffs, and a Supreme Court that is setting back women’s rights.

The originalist Supreme Court is going to be worse for you than you realize.

And your tax savings, for those of you who got them? Set to expire by 2025.

Master of illusion.

I was demonstrating what mattered to me at the time, as opposed to getting caught up in soap opera melodrama. Things were better for me during the Trump administration, than during the Obama or Biden administration. As for the Supreme Court, I'm pro-life. As for environmental disasters, they're still happening.



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16 Aug 2022, 1:36 am

goldfish21 wrote:
And the circus soap opera was detrimental.

Was and still is, thanks to the democrats and liberal media who created it.



DW_a_mom
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16 Aug 2022, 1:41 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Under Obama I owed the IRS and extra $1200. By Trump's second year I only owed $75, and had gotten some pretty good pay raises, and prices were low. That's what counted. Not whatever he was blathering about on Twitter. He was delivering on prosperity.


If you’re going to play that game, from my seat, Trump was the worst president ever. Taxes up by thousands, environmental disasters affecting my life, my husband’s company dealt a death blow by tariffs, and a Supreme Court that is setting back women’s rights.

The originalist Supreme Court is going to be worse for you than you realize.

And your tax savings, for those of you who got them? Set to expire by 2025.

Master of illusion.

I was demonstrating what mattered to me at the time, as opposed to getting caught up in soap opera melodrama. Things were better for me during the Trump administration, than during the Obama or Biden administration. As for the Supreme Court, I'm pro-life. As for environmental disasters, they're still happening.


And my life got worse in the Trump years. In clear and measurable ways. No drama.

I'm pro-life in fact, but not politically. The law is the wrong tool doing more harm than good.


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Matrix Glitch
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16 Aug 2022, 1:51 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Under Obama I owed the IRS and extra $1200. By Trump's second year I only owed $75, and had gotten some pretty good pay raises, and prices were low. That's what counted. Not whatever he was blathering about on Twitter. He was delivering on prosperity.


If you’re going to play that game, from my seat, Trump was the worst president ever. Taxes up by thousands, environmental disasters affecting my life, my husband’s company dealt a death blow by tariffs, and a Supreme Court that is setting back women’s rights.

The originalist Supreme Court is going to be worse for you than you realize.

And your tax savings, for those of you who got them? Set to expire by 2025.

Master of illusion.

I was demonstrating what mattered to me at the time, as opposed to getting caught up in soap opera melodrama. Things were better for me during the Trump administration, than during the Obama or Biden administration. As for the Supreme Court, I'm pro-life. As for environmental disasters, they're still happening.


And my life got worse in the Trump years. In clear and measurable ways. No drama.

And that of course the sort of objectivity decisions should be based on. I think we're both in agreement on that.



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16 Aug 2022, 10:30 am

All this desperation and grasping at straws is entertaining.


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kraftiekortie
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16 Aug 2022, 10:34 am

What is obvious is that Trump did not want to hand over the Presidency to the victor, Biden. So he devised many devious and criminal ways to prevent Biden from taking the Oath of Office.

Very much one of the Modus Operandi of dictators.



goldfish21
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16 Aug 2022, 10:44 am

Michael Cohen figures trump is going to use ghouliani as his bogo scapegoat for both mar-a-lago and the Georgia cases.

Raptor wrote:
All this desperation and grasping at straws is entertaining.


You mean by his supporters trying to pretend he isn't guilty of numerous serious crimes and going down for them? :? Indeed, it is! :ketchup chips:


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kraftiekortie
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16 Aug 2022, 10:48 am

Giuliani is probably one of Trump's "fall guys."



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16 Aug 2022, 10:57 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Ok, but there's still a great big wtf disconnect with his voters.. like, the guy is a compulsive pathological liar - he's lied about everything to everyone.. and for some unknown reason, his cult members somehow believe that he lies to everyone about everything except to them. Wtf? :?


It doesn't matter to a transactional relationship, so long as he keeps up his end of the bargain, he's good. I was actually concerned in the beginning that he'd turn liberal once in office given his previous statements and behavior, that he'd seek approval by playing to the tastemakers, but the liberals themselves closed off that possibility with the constant vilification campaign, they announced they were going to try and impeach him before he even took office.

Considering all the poop he’s pulled during & post his presidency, it seems that everyone who wanted him gone asap via whatever means was in fact correct in trying to flush the orange turd asap after all. It’s just too bad republicans aren’t patriotic politicians and opted to become trump nut swingers instead of honouring their oaths of office.

All many of us cared about was if he was getting the job done. And he was as far as I was concerned. Probably one of the reasons why I'm not emotionally wrapped up in Trump, is because all I was interested in was the business end. I paid little attention to the circus soap opera surrounding it.

Off Topic
I think the Abraham Accords he helped bring about is a wonderful thing. Even though it was done for a nefarious reason (to distract from Russia, Russia, Russia) he set in motion the more clear eyed view we have of China these days. He did some good stuff with criminal justice reform.

There is an old cliche about all the money in the world is no guarantee of happiness. One example would be if you are in horrible health, in constant pain you most likely would give it all up to for a return to good health. That is how I feel about what they call liberal democracy. The reasons why Trump has directly and indirectly enabled “fascists” has been endlessly talked about. But he has also made the illiberal left more powerful. What we call wokeness predates Trump’s famous trip down the escalator. But Trump’s soap opera/trolling/owning the libs has been the lightning rod that has given the wokes the validation/excuse they do not deserve. He has woke/radicalized people who were liberal or progressive before that escalator trip. People who thought America was good but with major flaws, now think America is racist and fascist to the core. Trump is a master troller who has triggered the overreaction he and the own the libs people so enjoy. Of course fault lies with the people who have have overreacted on the left and enabled him for Schadenfreude reasons on the right.

At the end of the day this is going to end in three bad ways.
1. Trumpism wins. For a time the own the libs types will get the ultimate satisfaction of putting out to pasture elitist snobs made made fun of and regulated regular patriotic Americans like themselves.

2. Wokeism wins. For a time the wokes will enjoy those Nazi, dumb, uncultured monsters who held up “progress” they know all along was inevitable getting cancelled out of existence or worse.

3. Anarchy and societal collapse. There will be periods where one side seems to be winning until the other side gets smarter or fights fire with hotter fire. This is the most likely outcome unless we somehow get off the suicidal path we are on.

Either way while your side might be winning you will likely have a thought that could be helpful but you can not express because it goes against the orthodoxy of your side.

Either way much time and energy will be spent on 1. Surviving if you side is losing 2. Getting revenge if your side is winning. This time and energy will not be spent on solving problems that will be festering.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 16 Aug 2022, 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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16 Aug 2022, 11:02 am

Yeah yeah yeah.....Hitler "got the job done," too....but he also killed millions of people.....

But the thing is: I don't really see much that Trump has done....all Trump has done was as a reaction to what already was done. Nothing innovative.

My intention is not to compare Trump to Hitler.....it's to illustrate how evil intentions and actions can override someone purportedly "doing his job."



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16 Aug 2022, 11:14 am

Yeah, Trump held elected office for 4 years and did all those horrible horrible things. Biden has held elected office for almost 50 years, has gotten rich in the process, and is as pure as the driven snow.


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16 Aug 2022, 5:07 pm

Florida judge to hold hearing Thursday on request to unseal Mar-a-Lago affidavit

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The federal magistrate judge who approved the Mar-a-Lago search warrant will hold a hearing Thursday at the court in Florida to discuss requests to unseal investigators' probable cause affidavit, which the Justice Department has opposed releasing.

"Disclosure of the government's affidavit at this stage would also likely chill future cooperation by witnesses whose assistance may be sought as this investigation progresses, as well as in other high-profile investigations," the Justice Department wrote. "The fact that this investigation implicates highly classified materials further underscores the need to protect the integrity of the investigation and exacerbates the potential harm if information is disclosed to the public prematurely or improperly."

Media organizations, including CNN, had asked for the affidavit to be unsealed after the search last week at Trump's Palm Beach, Florida, club and residence.

The announcement of Thursday's hearing came hours before two people briefed on the matter said told CNN that the FBI interviewed former White House counsel Pat Cipollone and his former deputy Patrick Philbin earlier this year as part of the investigation into federal records taken to Trump's Palm Beach home.

The two are the most senior former Trump officials interviewed in what is now a criminal investigation of possible mishandling of classified information and obstruction. The pair are among a group of former Trump aides whom the FBI interviewed after the criminal probe got underway this spring, the people briefed on the matter said.

The DOJ said details in the affidavit that lay out the argument that investigators made to Federal Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart explaining the probable cause it had to search Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate last week. The search, documents show, was an evidence-gathering step in a national security investigation about presidential records at Mar-a-Lago. Trump owns the sprawling estate, and it is his primary residence as well as a members-only club and resort.

The FBI returned three passports to Trump's lawyers after they were inadvertently seized in last week's search. The FBI said Monday night in response to questions about the passports that it follows set procedures authorized by the courts and returns items not needed for law enforcement purposes.

During an appearance on Fox on Monday night, Trump's attorney Lindsey Halligan just said that investigators already gave the passports back. "They gave them to his attorneys today, so he'll have them soon," Halligan said to Fox's Sean Hannity.

The communication makes clear the passport seizure was a standard part of the search that was resolved quickly, and not a punitive step taken by the Justice Department.


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16 Aug 2022, 5:59 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Michael Cohen figures trump is going to use ghouliani as his bogo scapegoat for both mar-a-lago and the Georgia cases.

Raptor wrote:
All this desperation and grasping at straws is entertaining.


You mean by his supporters trying to pretend he isn't guilty of numerous serious crimes and going down for them? :? Indeed, it is! :ketchup chips:

Could also mean we could care less what he did.


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