Hans Asperger aided and supported Nazi programme, study says

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Loborojo
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19 Apr 2018, 12:33 am

Eight-year study finds pioneer of paediatrics assisted in Third Reich’s euthanasia programme


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... _Messenger

:evil: :oops:


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traven
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19 Apr 2018, 1:11 am

....again.....
so did stalin, nestlé, coco chanel, gucci, l'oreal (most, or all fashion and cosmetics), banks, the vatican, philips, siemens, basf and bayer, the dalai lama, and more..... banks, chemicals, weapons, propaganda and science



redrobin62
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19 Apr 2018, 5:25 pm

Kraichgauer
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19 Apr 2018, 10:38 pm

Well, the term "Asperger's Syndrome" is going by the wayside, anyhow, and now we are more or less described as being high functioning on the autistic spectrum.


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EzraS
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20 Apr 2018, 2:28 am

Kinda surprising it took this long for something like that to come out.

I supposed if one wants to say aspergers or aspie instead of autistic, it depends on how removed from autism they feel? I know I have felt left out some when I read threads directed at aspies since I have autism, not aspergers.



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20 Apr 2018, 9:22 am

I thought this was obvious from the outset.

The premise of Asperger Syndrome (autistic psychopathy) was that these children, despite appearing like other disabled children, were in fact socially useful and therefore should be spared from eugenics. The logical conclusion, then, is that the other children were marked as unsuitable for society.

In order for the nazis to trust his assessments to be rigorous regarding who shouldn't be be killed, it stands to reason that he must have been providing details of those who didn't fit 'his patients'. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been trusted to be accurate. If the gestapo really had come for him twice (as he claimed, despite no records) then I sincerely doubt his accounts would be trusted by the nazis - more likely he would have come underfire for hiding those earmarked for death.


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20 Apr 2018, 2:05 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kinda surprising it took this long for something like that to come out.

I supposed if one wants to say aspergers or aspie instead of autistic, it depends on how removed from autism they feel? I know I have felt left out some when I read threads directed at aspies since I have autism, not aspergers.
I've been using the term Asperger sometimes when I know something is typical Asperger but I'm not sure if it's typical autism. I'm scuppered by my own ignorance basically. I'm Asperger so I feel my opinion of Asperger's is as good as anyone's, but while I often refer to myself as autistic I feel less confident pronouncing myself as some sort of representative of it because I'm the only autistic person I know :?

I'm not sure whether I'll carry on using the term to describe myself or not. If I could afford a Victorian house, I'd buy one, whether I liked Queen Victoria wouldn't be part of the decision. It's the term High Functioning that I loathe, it's divisive, patronising, and misleading.



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20 Apr 2018, 2:09 pm

So Asperger's has become Nazi term now, time to change the name.


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20 Apr 2018, 5:54 pm

Not surprising to me, maybe likely aided the regime though also saving kids to aid Asperger diagnosis


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20 Apr 2018, 6:45 pm

PerfectlyDarkTails wrote:
Not surprising to me, maybe likely aided the regime though also saving kids to aid Asperger diagnosis

Maybe he saved kids, so far no evidence and wishful thinking which I was guilty of also. In 2014 after the DSM eliminated the diagnoses when people wanting to call themselves Aspies was constantly under attack here on WP I defending the diagnisis as honoring a hero. This time WP is much better. Not so in comments sections of articles, the haters of the diagnosis are having a victory parade equating what they see as aspie elitism with Nazis eugenics beliefs.

This is a moment when claiming to want to judge people in the context of their times is assumed to a racists showing their true selves. It is not, it is recognizing humans are complicated creatures. What has been revealed is Hans Asperger did really bad things, thought bad things, and was willing to go along to get along.

I wonder how many of the people wanting to erase him from history and branding anybody who does not as evil would have done in that time and place?. My suspicion is that most of them would have been like those people back then “good germans”. It is not like 2018 America where resisting means risking a possible suspension from school for a day or so. Resisting meant risking that you and your family got arrested, tortured, and killed.


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21 Apr 2018, 6:00 pm

I used to joke that BASF made crappy video tapes cuz they lost the war :lol: :wink:

There were also people from Norway and Sweden who fought for Hitler , back then they might've believed that Germany would win the war. Swiss banks also financed nazis. Even Gert "Goldfinger" Frobe was a nazi although he helped a jewish family.



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21 Apr 2018, 7:29 pm

collectoritis wrote:
I used to joke that BASF made crappy video tapes cuz they lost the war :lol: :wink:

There were also people from Norway and Sweden who fought for Hitler , back then they might've believed that Germany would win the war. Swiss banks also financed nazis. Even Gert "Goldfinger" Frobe was a nazi although he helped a jewish family.


Scandinavians during those days could be just as obsessed with the pseudoscience of Aryanism as were Germans.


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22 Apr 2018, 11:16 pm

From the article:

Quote:
Asperger did take considerable pride in his “Heilpädagogik” – therapeutic pedagogy – which promoted the popular idea among his colleagues and Nazi leaders at a time of labour shortages that in certain cases people with autism made excellent soldiers and reliable workers. But Asperger also wrote about the need to “carry out restrictive measures” against patients deemed to be incurable and with hereditary conditions “out of a sense of great responsibility” towards the German race.


This paragraph stands out for me.
Keeping in mind that this is the Third Reich we are talking about and in no way a democracy, Asperger may have had to throw a smaller portion of them under the bus to save the larger portion of them that could be deemed useful to der Reich. It's one of those sh***y dilemmas where the lesser evil has to be chosen, or have the powers in charge make the choice and gas a lot more or all of them. It would have done much more harm than good if he'd protested or tried to fight the system since it was not the type of regime to tolerate any resistance, real or imagined.

I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about Asperger's culpability without further study of evidence. If there are any written directives issued, office memos, personal correspondence, notes, or journals surviving they would need to be scrutinized to peice together a fair verdict.


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23 Apr 2018, 6:46 am

Raptor wrote:
From the article:
Quote:
Asperger did take considerable pride in his “Heilpädagogik” – therapeutic pedagogy – which promoted the popular idea among his colleagues and Nazi leaders at a time of labour shortages that in certain cases people with autism made excellent soldiers and reliable workers. But Asperger also wrote about the need to “carry out restrictive measures” against patients deemed to be incurable and with hereditary conditions “out of a sense of great responsibility” towards the German race.


This paragraph stands out for me.
Keeping in mind that this is the Third Reich we are talking about and in no way a democracy, Asperger may have had to throw a smaller portion of them under the bus to save the larger portion of them that could be deemed useful to der Reich. It's one of those sh***y dilemmas where the lesser evil has to be chosen, or have the powers in charge make the choice and gas a lot more or all of them. It would have done much more harm than good if he'd protested or tried to fight the system since it was not the type of regime to tolerate any resistance, real or imagined.

I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about Asperger's culpability without further study of evidence. If there are any written directives issued, office memos, personal correspondence, notes, or journals surviving they would need to be scrutinized to peice together a fair verdict.



That’s an interesting point.


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25 Apr 2018, 1:27 pm

+10 for Raptors reply imo :idea:

(BASF tapes were so fragile for some reason and once they'd gotten a bump/fell onto the floor etc they were unwatchable , never had an issue with TDK tapes thus the joke)



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04 Jul 2020, 4:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, the term "Asperger's Syndrome" is going by the wayside, anyhow, and now we are more or less described as being high functioning on the autistic spectrum.


Be careful where you say Asperger's or High Functioning these days. I was attacked in an LGBTQ forum for using those by someone on with ASD screaming Asperger was a Nazi, AS didn't and not to use labels as it harmed the community. I wasn't aware of the 2018 article and I have a formal diagnosis of AS:High Functioning in 2009 as an adult.

Sorry, no signature yet. My original account is is limbo and I had to start over.