Sweden the only country with Correct Approach to CVD-19

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goldfish21
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08 Dec 2020, 3:52 pm

^Is that finally an admission that you were dead wrong with this thread title? :? :D


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cyberdad
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08 Dec 2020, 5:48 pm

RIP Thread



Antrax
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08 Dec 2020, 6:34 pm

I still think the Sweden approach was the most reasonable. Other countries bet big that they could keep things contained until a vaccine arrived. For now that gamble appears to have paid off. It very easily could not have.

People who evaluate decisions based on how they panned out, rather than their chances of panning out, get smacked by statistics on the next round of decision making. I hope for everyone's sake that there is no next round when it comes to global pandemics.


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goldfish21
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08 Dec 2020, 7:30 pm

Antrax wrote:
I still think the Sweden approach was the most reasonable. Other countries bet big that they could keep things contained until a vaccine arrived. For now that gamble appears to have paid off. It very easily could not have.

People who evaluate decisions based on how they panned out, rather than their chances of panning out, get smacked by statistics on the next round of decision making. I hope for everyone's sake that there is no next round when it comes to global pandemics.


Wut? :?

Other countries bet that mitigation measures, already known from prior pandemics stretching back more than a century, would work to minimize illness and death.. and then, to literally no one's surprise - as you even acknowledge above - they worked! Which means literally every other country in the world that made an effort to contain & control the virus And said Sweden was making an error was in fact correct.. and not just because of a lucky guess, but because we already had this knowledge & just had to put it into practice. Since this was nothing new, I disagree that it could have easily not worked. We already Knew these things work, and so of course they would & did work again.

Literally everyone evaluated potential options and how they’ll likely pan out Before they decide things. That’s how choice works. And naturally the results of a choice cannot be assessed until afterwards.. duh. But pretty much no one, or any country, randomly picks some choice for an important decision & just runs with it and then sees later if it was a good or bad move. WTF? :? Your entire post makes no sense.

And finally, this is far from the first or last pandemic humanity will face and given the state of our global environment & microbes melting out of the ice etc we’re likely to see more pandemics in our not so distant future vs fewer. IMO.


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kraftiekortie
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08 Dec 2020, 7:38 pm

Sweden has about 5-10 times the death rate of their Scandinavian neighbors.

They admit their laissez-faire policy was misguided.



cyberdad
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08 Dec 2020, 9:34 pm

Antrax wrote:
I still think the Sweden approach was the most reasonable. Other countries bet big that they could keep things contained until a vaccine arrived. For now that gamble appears to have paid off. It very easily could not have.

People who evaluate decisions based on how they panned out, rather than their chances of panning out, get smacked by statistics on the next round of decision making. I hope for everyone's sake that there is no next round when it comes to global pandemics.


I tend to agree that the vaccine was a "get out of jail card" for the lockdown countries. Now that it will be available the Swedes may yet still have the last laugh having gone into lockdown for a few months Vs the UK going into three lockdowns over 12 months



goldfish21
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20 Dec 2020, 5:03 am

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/sev ... asures-yet


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20 Dec 2020, 8:09 am

https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/12/03/sw ... vid-check/

Quote:
The country’s relatively non-deadly second wave has vindicated its strategy — leaving its critics eating 'their own BS'.


Quote:
Other critics of Sweden failed the most basic of tests. Last week Reuters claimed the country “has seen a surge in the number of cases, hospitalisations and deaths in recent weeks” and “the country battles a growing second wave of a disease that has now killed more than 6000 Swedes”.
The problem with that is that Sweden’s first wave led to more than 6000 deaths; its second only 600. The writer apparently forgot to check when people died.


Quote:
Although Sweden clearly didn’t eradicate the virus with herd immunity as some had hoped, Tegnell’s critics have been very selective in choosing their comparators.

Goldsmith and Aylott both compared Sweden with Finland and Norway (two of the lowest case-and-fatality Western countries) rather than say, Goldsmith’s own UK or France.

The data seems to indicate that Sweden’s relatively non-deadly second wave has absolutely vindicated Tegnell’s approach: Sweden is again able to bend the curve without implementing a strict lockdown.


On a side note this would be a good time to point out that Swedens just announced "lockdown" is not the same kind of lockdown as in other places like Melbourne, this is pretty much "middle of winter" so a lot of stuff shuts down anyway virus or no virus.
And the government is ASKING people to wear masks on public transport. No fines. No thugs. No Jackboots.



goldfish21
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20 Dec 2020, 2:42 pm

What shuts down just because it’s winter besides outdoor swimming pools and ice cream shops at the beach?


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kraftiekortie
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20 Dec 2020, 2:50 pm

Tourist locations along the Mediterranean are decidedly quiet in winter owing to the closing of most tourist attractions.

They don’t completely shut down—-but from the viewpoint of some, they might as well.



goldfish21
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20 Dec 2020, 4:59 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Tourist locations along the Mediterranean are decidedly quiet in winter owing to the closing of most tourist attractions.

They don’t completely shut down—-but from the viewpoint of some, they might as well.


Ok.. summer tourist spots close & winter tourist spots open.

AFAIK, Sweden isn’t a summer tourist destination who’s economy is dependent on such. What large swaths of the Swedish economy would shut down in the winter, anyways? :?

Surely not any of the sectors that were just ordered closed.. because they were open & now ordered closed due to covid.


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madbutnotmad
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20 Dec 2020, 5:18 pm

I live on an island in-between England and France called Jersey.

We are presently in Lockdown, and have a bit of a problem due to the finance industry nature of the island,
our industries are dependent on people coming into the island to stash their cash / do business.

We are in lockdown and have a problem with people getting infected and dying.

We have a neighbouring island next to us called Guernsey, which is similar in size, population and nature.
But has a different government.

When the virus was first announced, Guernsey shut their borders and let no one in or out. boom.
Jersey, however, continued to let people in and out and is now infected.

Guernsey is now one of the only places in the UK that has had no deaths through the virus and has very few positive cases, like 13 or something.

That has always been the contrast in governments strategy to rule when compared with Jersey.

Jersey has always worked to please their wealthy inhabitants, the 1%
Guernsey instead takes the side of their entire population and especially their local inhabitants.

Guernsey will have the best xmas in the world
as within their island they have no virus and will be able to operate locally as normal.
Party on.

While the inhabitants of Jersey are now in completely lock down.
Only able to go out for food shopping and health care.

Sadly Jersey will not learn by their mistakes
as soon as the virus is over and gone

Jersey politicians will continue to rim the UK wealth supremacists and take their orders from the UK government.
So much for being an independent government. its a joke. but that's small town politics for you.

Money talks
people die
Money still talks
more people die
ho hum....

good for Guernsey, I hope they all have the best xmas ever! with no virus!! !!
Yippee



goldfish21
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20 Dec 2020, 6:23 pm

^a but similar here where I live in British Columbia. For a population of 5M ppl we have one of the lowest covid death rates in the entire world - at one point we were second only to Norway. Probably a bit worse now seeing as a few hundred more people have died.

Anyways, we have great leadership on the virus & mitigation measures and a population that Mostly respects them and behaves well. In part it’s because we have a large Chinese population that knows how to work together to combat a viral pandemic. It’s the South Asian (Indian) population that’s largely ignored rules about gatherings. But over all, people here have done well and we have a low death rate. Our orders not to mix households At All or face potential fines of $270 for individuals & $2300 for homeowners/hosts of gatherings have been extended through January 8th and ~94% of British Columbians polled intend to obey and stay home and keep to themselves for the holidays.

Meanwhile, next door in the Province of Alberta, they are more.. conservative leaning politically & could be best described, in general, as Canada’s “trump country.” They kept businesses open, reopened too soon, didn’t/don’t have mask mandates soon enough (Neither did we IMO - it took much public pressure to finally get them implemented here because our Top Doc didn’t want to be heavy-handed.), and they have a Lot more anti-science pro-stupidity anti-maskers and their ridiculous protests. Guess who’s hospitals are overflowing with covid patients w/ a high and growing covid death toll? Yep. Alberta’s. Covidiots.


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21 Dec 2020, 1:34 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
What shuts down just because it’s winter besides outdoor swimming pools and ice cream shops at the beach?


Agriculture(the ground is frozen).

Animal Husbandry(you have to move the animals into heated barns, but that's milk and breeding stock only.)

Forestry, noone sane is cutting down trees in those conditions.

Mining largely shuts down as well.

Tourism shuts down almost completely, they're called "summer cottages" for a reason.

As for the locals mostly everyone just stays home unless they absolutely have to be out.



goldfish21
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21 Dec 2020, 2:34 pm

SpiceWolf wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
What shuts down just because it’s winter besides outdoor swimming pools and ice cream shops at the beach?


Agriculture(the ground is frozen).

Animal Husbandry(you have to move the animals into heated barns, but that's milk and breeding stock only.)

Forestry, noone sane is cutting down trees in those conditions.

Mining largely shuts down as well.

Tourism shuts down almost completely, they're called "summer cottages" for a reason.

As for the locals mostly everyone just stays home unless they absolutely have to be out.


Right, so the same seasonal industries as always.

They did list a bunch of places that were open and now closing for covid - so those places were open.. indoor places where people gather.


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