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Fnord
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19 Oct 2021, 1:16 pm

↑↑ Correct, Kraftie.

There is no "Alternate Truth".

The truth is that Mr. Biden won the election fair-and-square, and that Mr. Trump is a sore loser.



goldfish21
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19 Oct 2021, 1:37 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump lost by about 7 million votes.


In other words, trump lost by about 7 MILLION times the amount of votes necessary to lose. What a YUGE Loser!! ! :D


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Fnord
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19 Oct 2021, 1:41 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump lost by about 7 million votes.
In other words, trump lost by about 7 MILLION times the amount of votes necessary to lose. What a YUGE Loser!!
The yugest!  Believe me.  Everyone knows this, bigly!



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19 Oct 2021, 3:09 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Those Dems who believe those 9/11 conspiracy theories are obviously insane, and most liberals know it.


Oh really?

https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smit ... new-035224

Quote:
"How likely is it that people in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?" the poll asked.

A full 22.6% of Democrats said it was "very likely." Another 28.2% called it "somewhat likely."

That is: More than half of Democrats, according to a neutral survey, said they believed Bush was complicit in the 9/11 terror attacks.


There you have it, half of Democrats are obviously insane, to use your own words.

Kraichgauer wrote:
I've never heard the 2004 crap, and so I have to think few Democrats actually ever believed such a thing.


Less effective a rebuttal than you seem to think, given how little you seem to know. Even so:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... 020-448604

Quote:
Over the 16 years that followed the 2004 election, candidates have won and conceded; presidents have been inaugurated. But the loosely defined movement that launched back then has lived on. Most of its members are left-wing, though not all of them identify as Democrats. They’ve come to define their cause not around John Kerry’s rightful presidency, but around the idea of election integrity. Some are fixated on voter suppression; some subscribe to deep-state conspiracies about the manipulation of voting machines. What they share is a conviction that the 2004 election was a sham, and that it exposed a sweeping, anti-democratic cabal. Jonathan Simon, a onetime pollster-turned-lawyer-turned-chiropractor who worked with Freeman on his early analysis, summed up the prevailing view at a congressional hearing after the 2004 vote: “What we’re dealing with here, although the formality is all in place, is a stuffed animal, not a real animal—a taxidermic model of democracy.”

And many of them still believe that. Their continued commitment to the idea even today reveals that, once sown, doubt in the democratic process is difficult to dispel. Rather than recede with age, in many cases these 2004 skeptics’ concerns only deepened. And today, many of these 2004 figures have found a new cause in the 2020 election, embracing Trump’s claims about the results even if they are on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum. The movement is starting to split, as others refuse to align themselves with the president and his supporters, and even think it’s dangerous to do so.

But despite this current divide, both sides are still united in one conviction: They still think the democratic process is deeply flawed—enough to throw an election in 2004, and enough to do it again. Simon, who still questions the 2004 election but doesn’t buy Trump’s claims, says his own reaction to the president has been edifying. “I recognize the irony: Now I’m the one asking for more evidence,” he says. Still, he identifies with something at the core of even Trump’s wildest rants. “The general proposition that you can’t trust the system,” he says, “that is valid.”


Kraichgauer wrote:
That Stacy Abrams might have won the election in Georgia could have been a reality if it hadn't been for voter suppression.


Just like Trump might have won in 2020 if it weren't for media bias and the tech, entertainment, intelligence, and academic sectors all doing their damnedest to insure his loss. You think it's different when you do it, but it's not.


Kraichgauer wrote:
The thing is, though, the majority of Republicans say they actually believe the idiocy that Trump had his victory stolen from him. I can't think of a single time when a majority of Democrats believed in something that is as verifiably false or patently ridiculous as the conspiracies the right is currently having convulsions over.


You still believe in RussiaGate, a wholly discredited conspiracy theory, among other verifiably untrue things that are common beliefs across your party. I already pointed out that over half the Democrats had at least some belief in 9/11 conspiracies, and if memory serves, there are other polls showing higher numbers than that. I could keep going, but with you I find that it's best to make my point and move on, as it's not like you're going to ever admit a mistake or change a belief.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Why so sensitive for the criticism of the Trump worshippers (which aren't all Republicans, by the way)?


It's not about them per se, it's about people like you who think you're better than them when you're not, you just worship a different set of false idols. You're the pot to their kettle, you just don't know it.


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Fnord
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19 Oct 2021, 3:16 pm

From "The Art of The Deal", p27, by Donald J. Trump and Tony Schwartz...

Quote:
Deliver the Goods: "You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole.  But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on."
We have caught on, Donny-boy... we have caught on...



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19 Oct 2021, 3:52 pm

Fnord wrote:
↑↑ Correct, Kraftie.

There is no "Alternate Truth".

The truth is that Mr. Biden won the election fair-and-square, and that Mr. Trump is a sore loser.


That is your interpretation of what happened.

Keep in mind that the Truth can be quite elusive due to political manipulation.
People do lie to achieve/maintain their narrative.
That is why one must keep an open mind to incorporate any new information that comes our way.

At one time, "The Truth" was that the coronavirus pandemic couldn't possibly have happened as a result of a Wuhan lab leak.
Not only has that changed to a possibility, but it is also now considered a *probability* by informed individuals.

No one has a monopoly on the Truth.
Not even The Oracle of Truth.
Saying something doesn't make it so.
Often it is a case of considering the facts and making a judgement call.
That's the fact, Jack. 8)

To be clear, I believe Trump lost the election, but there is evidence that political machinations were also involved. 8)
To be clear, I wish he would retire from politics and let new blood take over the Republican party.
To be clear, it looks grim that that is not going to happen now that Uncle Joe is doing so badly.
The skunk has spoken. 8)


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19 Oct 2021, 3:55 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Image


:lol: :lol: :lol:


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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19 Oct 2021, 3:59 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Trump lost by about 7 million votes.


In other words, trump lost by about 7 MILLION times the amount of votes necessary to lose. What a YUGE Loser!! ! :D


The Amerian Electoral College Voting system is odd to me.
I wonder if it has reached its use-by date.


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


kraftiekortie
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19 Oct 2021, 4:04 pm

If there was no Electoral College, we would have had President Hillary in 2016.

I, myself, believe it has run its course.

Trump has done some things that go beyond the pale of "politics as usual." It's as clear as day. No "machinations." Just good, hard evidence.



Pepe
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19 Oct 2021, 4:09 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If there was no Electoral College, we would have had President Hillary in 2016.

I, myself, believe it has run its course.

Trump has done some things that go beyond the pale of "politics as usual." It's as clear as day. No "machinations." Just good, hard evidence.


From my POV that is rather simplistic.

So, you are saying censorship buy left-wing media outlets favouring the left of politics through lies of omission and contextual perversion weren't involved?
Kraftie, seriously. :mrgreen:

To be clear, these sorts of machinations happen on both sides of politics.
"Politics" is a very dirty game.
Not realising that is a little naive. 8)


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Last edited by Pepe on 19 Oct 2021, 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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19 Oct 2021, 4:10 pm

I am about 1/4 of the way through my third reading of "The Art of The Deal", and I am surprised at how different the 1987 Donald Trump seems from the 2017 Donald Trump.  The former seems like a savvy businessman and investor who understands the people who support and oppose him, while the latter seems like a sadistic despot and instigator who imagines that even the people who support him are out to get him.

Sad!



Pepe
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19 Oct 2021, 4:17 pm

Fnord wrote:
I am about 1/4 of the way through my third reading of "The Art of The Deal", and I am surprised at how different the 1987 Donald Trump seems from the 2017 Donald Trump.  The former seems like a savvy businessman and investor who understands the people who support and oppose him, while the latter seems like a sadistic despot and instigator who imagines that even the people who support him are out to get him.

Sad!


It is also sad that a dysfunctional Amerian political system allowed a narcissistic individual to become the President of the most powerful nation on earth. 8O


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


kraftiekortie
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19 Oct 2021, 4:18 pm

No Sir. I'm not denying that there's "machinations" on both sides. I'm neither a "leftist," nor a "rightist." I'm a realist.

What I'm saying: There's good, hard evidence that Trump called that Georgia election official, and tried to finagle some nonexistent votes from the official. That goes beyond the pale of "politics as usual." This is Mafia-type stuff.

Trump is a sore loser, to say the least. Imagine if he would have had his allegations taken seriously? I tremble at the thought! We would become another Belarus. Or some Banana Republic. Trump wants to be a Generalissimo.

If no Electoral College, there would be NO Trump.



Fnord
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19 Oct 2021, 4:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
... There's good, hard evidence that Trump called that Georgia election official, and tried to finagle some nonexistent votes from the official. That goes beyond the pale of "politics as usual." This is Mafia-type stuff...
Mr. Trump spent a lot of time and money in the casino business, which shares a deep history with "organized crime".

Enough said?



Pepe
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19 Oct 2021, 4:27 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
No Sir. I'm not denying that there's "machinations" on both sides. I'm neither a "leftist," nor a "rightist." I'm a realist.

What I'm saying: There's good, hard evidence that Trump called that Georgia election official, and tried to finagle some nonexistent votes from the official. That goes beyond the pale of "politics as usual." This is Mafia-type stuff.

Trump is a sore loser, to say the least. Imagine if he would have had his allegations taken seriously? I tremble at the thought! We would become another Belarus. Or some Banana Republic. Trump wants to be a Generalissimo.

If no Electoral College, there would be NO Trump.


Assuming this is True, and I have no reason to think it isn't, it could be seen as political machinations countering machinations on the other side.

The bottom line is, the judicial system made a judgement call dismissing his claims.
I don't think any of the numerous legal maneuvers succeeded.
Correct me if I am wrong.

The assumption is that the Amerian Judicial System has integrity.
In this instance, I believe it has in part because many judges involved were conservative. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


Pepe
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19 Oct 2021, 4:29 pm

Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
... There's good, hard evidence that Trump called that Georgia election official, and tried to finagle some nonexistent votes from the official. That goes beyond the pale of "politics as usual." This is Mafia-type stuff...
Mr. Trump spent a lot of time and money in the casino business, which shares a deep history with "organized crime".

Enough said?


As I have said numerous times, "Politics" is a very dirty game. *on both sides of the political divide*.
Not realising this is a little naive. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!