Oh god, Orange man creates his own social media....

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DW_a_mom
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24 Oct 2021, 5:20 am

badRobot wrote:
This is not your judgement call to make. What is ok to you, might not be ok for this member of the forum.


Acknowledged, and my opinion modified accordingly once Brictoria posted his feelings (FYI Brictoria’s profile says male). If you’d just read a little further before posting (I don’t usually, either).


Ps - As a woman, I am literally offended that you continue to try to make a comparison to sexual assault. Just, drop it.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 24 Oct 2021, 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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24 Oct 2021, 5:36 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

I don’t think referencing a pm was an intentional act. I see it more as an awkward act. Place yourself in Cornflakes shoes (now I get to feel awkward mentioning him because I think these are offline hours for him). Imagine you’ve been having a conversation with a member in pms, and now you see the member (I assume) bring the same conversation into a public thread. How do you respond? The efficient thing to do is repeat. Then you find yourself worrying you’ll be accused of redundancy, so you decide the most transparent thing to do is mention the parallel conversation. You feel something has to be said, but aren’t sure how to do it, so you take your stab at it and move on. What you do isn’t ill intended, but it isn’t perfect communication, either.


You explain the redundancy in another PM.
Simples. 8)


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DW_a_mom
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24 Oct 2021, 5:51 am

Pepe wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:

I don’t think referencing a pm was an intentional act. I see it more as an awkward act. Place yourself in Cornflakes shoes (now I get to feel awkward mentioning him because I think these are offline hours for him). Imagine you’ve been having a conversation with a member in pms, and now you see the member (I assume) bring the same conversation into a public thread. How do you respond? The efficient thing to do is repeat. Then you find yourself worrying you’ll be accused of redundancy, so you decide the most transparent thing to do is mention the parallel conversation. You feel something has to be said, but aren’t sure how to do it, so you take your stab at it and move on. What you do isn’t ill intended, but it isn’t perfect communication, either.


You explain the redundancy in another PM.
Simples. 8)




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I did a lot of thinking out loud and ended up in a slightly different place than I started. The journey isn’t as important as the final destination.

But one thing to understand, I will always try to find a way to understand where a moderator might have been coming from, and I will always make allowances. It isn’t always possible for them to make the perfect choice on how to act and what to say, but I know they are always trying to figure how to get things right. Being a moderator was the worst job I’ve ever had, and I have nothing but gratitude to those who take it up, even if they aren’t perfect at it.


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badRobot
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24 Oct 2021, 7:25 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
badRobot wrote:
This is not your judgement call to make. What is ok to you, might not be ok for this member of the forum.


Acknowledged, and my opinion modified accordingly once Brictoria posted his feelings (FYI Brictoria’s profile says male). If you’d just read a little further before posting (I don’t usually, either).

OK, I'm glad we are able to reach at least some agreement.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Ps - As a woman, I am literally offended that you continue to try to make a comparison to sexual assault. Just, drop it.

Yes, you are a woman, but you also claim to be a responsible member of this community and ex-moderator. As a responsible member of this community you should be offended by actions of moderators, not by my reasoning. I'm offended by your attempts to justify unethical behavior with arguments like moral licensing and attempts to downplay harm of this behavior by reasoning identical to one used to downplay harm of sexual assault.



DW_a_mom
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24 Oct 2021, 8:00 am

badRobot wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Ps - As a woman, I am literally offended that you continue to try to make a comparison to sexual assault. Just, drop it.

Yes, you are a woman, but you also claim to be a responsible member of this community and ex-moderator. As a responsible member of this community you should be offended by actions of moderators, not by my reasoning. I'm offended by your attempts to justify unethical behavior with arguments like moral licensing and attempts to downplay harm of this behavior by reasoning identical to one used to downplay harm of sexual assault.


I see it very differently but I don’t think you and I will be able to resolve that.

Understand this: the issues in sexual assault run a whole lot deeper than consent. There are layers of history, misogyny, societal bullying, gaslighting, and long term consequences that all play a huge role.

It is a whole lot more than a breach of trust.

It has no place in the exact fact situation we’ve been discussing.

Yes, in my view the exact fact situation does matter. In the law, cases are distinguished on the facts. We haven’t been looking at a “what if.”

And you disagree. So be it.

Ps - I know my opinions are just my opinions, and I have personal reasons to default to supporting the moderators. I haven’t hid any of that.


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badRobot
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24 Oct 2021, 8:20 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
I see it very differently but I don’t think you and I will be able to resolve that.

We are not supposed to be able to resolve that. That is irrelevant. There are rules, there is a fact of privacy breach and of violation of the rules, your subjective judgement of "not such of a big deal" doesn't matter here. I don't get why you keep using moral licensing and trying to downplay it to justify violation of rules.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Understand this: the issues in sexual assault run a whole lot deeper than consent. There are layers of history, misogyny, societal bullying, gaslighting, and long term consequences that all play a huge role.

Understand this: the issues in breach of privacy run a whole lot deeper than how much private information the quotation contains and what your subjective idea of potential harm is. There are layers of history, misogyny, societal bullying, gaslighting, and long term consequences that all play a huge role.



maycontainthunder
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24 Oct 2021, 8:37 am

I feel I should post a point which some seem to rather overlook.

Mods are like sewermen. They spend their own time dealing with other people's s*** sometimes getting covered in it through no fault of their own. It's a horrible job some of the time when they get someone who is having problems or has been greatly upset by the inconsiderate postings of another.

At the end of the day their sole task is to keep the community a safe place because right here in this one we have a higher proportion of vulnerable people than any other type of forum. There are people on here who get really distressed by arguments.

Consideration to a point should be shown because posting something may cause upset you cannot see.


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badRobot
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24 Oct 2021, 9:20 am

maycontainthunder wrote:
At the end of the day their sole task is to keep the community a safe place because right here in this one we have a higher proportion of vulnerable people than any other type of forum. There are people on here who get really distressed by arguments.

Yes, I agree that this community should be safe place for vulnerable people. But keeping a safe place for unchallenged false negative beliefs and pro-suicide reasoning makes it fundamentally unsafe for vulnerable people. You can't have both. There are people who are looking for confirmation of their destructive beliefs and reading this stuff published as valid points can be the last straw.

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Consideration to a point should be shown because posting something may cause upset you cannot see.

It is almost impossible to prevent depressed vulnerable person from feeling upset. But through reasoning it is possible to influence what depressed person would feels upset about. It is magnitudes of order healthier to be upset about some objectively helpful factors. Giving a person internal locus on control about factors of their wellbeing will feel like making that person upset about their life choices. But feeling upset about these things instead of some made up stuff beyond their control is objectively a good thing. Moderators here just don't understand it.



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24 Oct 2021, 9:48 am

badRobot wrote:
maycontainthunder wrote:
At the end of the day their sole task is to keep the community a safe place because right here in this one we have a higher proportion of vulnerable people than any other type of forum. There are people on here who get really distressed by arguments.

Yes, I agree that this community should be safe place for vulnerable people. But keeping a safe place for unchallenged false negative beliefs and pro-suicide reasoning makes it fundamentally unsafe for vulnerable people. You can't have both. There are people who are looking for confirmation of their destructive beliefs and reading this stuff published as valid points can be the last straw.

Quote:
Consideration to a point should be shown because posting something may cause upset you cannot see.

It is almost impossible to prevent depressed vulnerable person from feeling upset. But through reasoning it is possible to influence what depressed person would feels upset about. It is magnitudes of order healthier to be upset about some objectively helpful factors. Giving a person internal locus on control about factors of their wellbeing will feel like making that person upset about their life choices. But feeling upset about these things instead of some made up stuff beyond their control is objectively a good thing. Moderators here just don't understand it.


I feel that they do understand it. Many times I have seen threads with people wanting to harm themselves. The mods will be supportive and try and help them feel better along with many members also trying to help. It is, from what I have seen, unheard of for negative feelings to be supported and encouraged on this forum. These are the kind of comments that are rightfully moderated. If the member keeps doing it they get an electronic boot up the posterior.

The standard of moderation on here is done with heart and though some may disagree we have a good range of mods on here. I've always found them to be very friendly with a huge willingness to help. You don't get this on other forums which is why I've stuck around much to the annoyance of some I'm sure!

I know you have a different opinion of them but we agree to disagree and leave it there.

Back onto the subject of this thread...Orange man's social media.


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badRobot
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24 Oct 2021, 10:33 am

maycontainthunder wrote:
I feel that they do understand it. Many times I have seen threads with people wanting to harm themselves. The mods will be supportive and try and help them feel better along with many members also trying to help. It is, from what I have seen, unheard of for negative feelings to be supported and encouraged on this forum. These are the kind of comments that are rightfully moderated. If the member keeps doing it they get an electronic boot up the posterior.

This is not what I'm talking about. There is difference between expressing negative attitude or aggression toward other members and expressing false negative beliefs and false negative reasoning other vulnerable members can relate to.

Imagine malicious internet troll, but much smarter, he doesn't directly attack people on the spectrum, but creates accounts pretending to be one of them and constantly posting extremely negative, exaggerated stuff of how miserable he is, how being on the spectrum makes his situation hopeless, how he has tried every advise there is, but nothing ever worked, using extremely negative language, like "weirdo", "freak", "creep", using these words toward himself, but describing situations and circumstances a lot of vulnerable people here can relate to and would think of themselves as "weirdo", "freak", "creep" too. Using false beliefs and pseudo-logical reasoning to make it sound convincing, discouraging, stealing remains of hope.

Possibility that this person is actually believes this stuff doesn't make this stuff any less toxic and damaging for the rest of community if we are not allowed to present convincing logical reasoning against these beliefs.



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24 Oct 2021, 10:54 am

Badrobot, if you are seeing such posts report them and explain why you feel that this could be an intentionally harmful to other members. People who post things like this are not normally very bright; when an account goes for approval the mods should be able to see the location and any sock puppet accounts from the same location.

The ball is in your court to do something about it.


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badRobot
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24 Oct 2021, 10:57 am

maycontainthunder wrote:
Badrobot, if you are seeing such posts report them and explain why you feel that this could be an intentionally harmful to other members. People who post things like this are not normally very bright; when an account goes for approval the mods should be able to see the location and any sock puppet accounts from the same location.

There is always a possibility there is actually a depressed struggling person behind these words. So every time I assume that is the case and trying help this person using appropriate language.



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24 Oct 2021, 10:59 am

maycontainthunder wrote:
Badrobot, if you are seeing such posts report them and explain why you feel that this could be an intentionally harmful to other members. People who post things like this are not normally very bright; when an account goes for approval the mods should be able to see the location and any sock puppet accounts from the same location.

The ball is in your court to do something about it.


I'm not sure the posters being called out are actual trolls so much as legit posters who don't accept the 'convincing logical reasoning' being used to antagonize them while they're already upset.

Now someone's looking to go out in a blaze of glory after listing off their grievances with WP.


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24 Oct 2021, 11:11 am

funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure the posters being called out are actual trolls so much as legit posters who don't accept the 'convincing logical reasoning' being used to antagonize them while they're already upset.

You are trying to antagonize me again for no reason. I do not antagonize people for not accepting my advice. But I do antagonize toxic attitude, attempts to derail discussion instead of acknowledging the points made and present some valid points in response. If depressed person is already upset, I can't change that. But if I can make this person to be upset about being a jerk, rather than about false belief there is nothing can be done to improve their wellbeing it is already a good thing.



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24 Oct 2021, 11:20 am

badRobot wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I'm not sure the posters being called out are actual trolls so much as legit posters who don't accept the 'convincing logical reasoning' being used to antagonize them while they're already upset.

You are trying to antagonize me again for no reason. I do not antagonize people for not accepting my advice. But I do antagonize toxic attitude, attempts to derail discussion instead of acknowledging the points made and present some valid points in response. If depressed person is already upset, I can't change that. But if I can make this person to be upset about being a jerk, rather than about false belief there is nothing can be done to improve their wellbeing it is already a good thing.


Your attempts at helping and their actual impacts on the person seeking emotional support are well-documented for their non-helpful outcomes and approach.


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maycontainthunder
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24 Oct 2021, 11:25 am

funeralxempire wrote:

I'm not sure the posters being called out are actual trolls so much as legit posters who don't accept the 'convincing logical reasoning' being used to antagonize them while they're already upset.



I agree. Trying to calm someone down ain't easy so treading carefully can be the only way forward. Trying to lure people away from the dark place they are in....been in that dark place myself many times. I understand how they feel because I have tried to take my life on more than one occasion. This is why I have Dog V4...I hate seeing him upset. I have my four legged lure but I know others don't and the internet is their only outlet to express how they feel. The big, wide internet is full of sharks looking to harm you. We have a good community here that will help if help is needed.


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