Whoopi Goldberg suspended for racist comments

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Tim_Tex
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19 Mar 2023, 4:54 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
What she said was dumb, suspending her for it is also dumb. Interesting to see some pushback on the "Jews are just another type of white people" view that's been voguish on the left recently, perhaps the tides are starting to turn.



So Jewish people aren't white? What are they then? I thought white was because of our skin color. Had I been this literal all along? ?:


Jews, Arabs, and some ethnic groups from what are now Ethiopia and Eritrea are what we call Semites. Also, "Jews" as an ethnicity refers only to those born into the group, not those who converted to Judaism.

Someone who converts is Jewish in terms of religion, but not ethnicity or race.


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ASPartOfMe
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19 Mar 2023, 10:02 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
What she said was dumb, suspending her for it is also dumb. Interesting to see some pushback on the "Jews are just another type of white people" view that's been voguish on the left recently, perhaps the tides are starting to turn.



So Jewish people aren't white? What are they then? I thought white was because of our skin color. Had I been this literal all along? ?:


Jews, Arabs, and some ethnic groups from what are now Ethiopia and Eritrea are what we call Semites. Also, "Jews" as an ethnicity refers only to those born into the group, not those who converted to Judaism.

Someone who converts is Jewish in terms of religion, but not ethnicity or race.


I am going to repeat what I said earlier in the thread. I grew in the New York area at the same during the ‘60s and 70s like Whoopi. Jews like the Italians, and the Irish were considered white ethnic groups. There were basically 4 main races, white, black, brown, and yellow. I considered myself and most Jews white based on looking in the mirror. That is what Whoopi thought.

Then came woke ideology. Race is not based on skin color but is a social construct based on privilege and power. Thus there are all sorts of races. Because Jews are doing well either they are white and have white privilege or are white adjacent and are mooching off of white privilege.

The last time Jews were widely considered a separate race to put it mildly it did not go well. Now White nationalists are bringing back Jews as a separate race but wokes agree with them for different reasons. So why in hell should I not view wokeism as a threat?


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19 Mar 2023, 10:49 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
What she said was dumb, suspending her for it is also dumb. Interesting to see some pushback on the "Jews are just another type of white people" view that's been voguish on the left recently, perhaps the tides are starting to turn.



So Jewish people aren't white? What are they then? I thought white was because of our skin color. Had I been this literal all along? ?:


Jews, Arabs, and some ethnic groups from what are now Ethiopia and Eritrea are what we call Semites. Also, "Jews" as an ethnicity refers only to those born into the group, not those who converted to Judaism.

Someone who converts is Jewish in terms of religion, but not ethnicity or race.


I am going to repeat what I said earlier in the thread. I grew in the New York area at the same during the ‘60s and 70s like Whoopi. Jews like the Italians, and the Irish were considered white ethnic groups. There were basically 4 main races, white, black, brown, and yellow. I considered myself and most Jews white based on looking in the mirror. That is what Whoopi thought.

Then came woke ideology. Race is not based on skin color but is a social construct based on privilege and power. Thus there are all sorts of races. Because Jews are doing well either they are white and have white privilege or are white adjacent and are mooching off of white privilege.

The last time Jews were widely considered a separate race to put it mildly it did not go well. Now White nationalists are bringing back Jews as a separate race but wokes agree with them for different reasons. So why in hell should I not view wokeism as a threat?


I think it's worth being mindful that Jewish peoples being considered as white vs. not-white has always been dependent upon how it suited others. Being aware of this likely matters regardless of one's overall ideological views. It's also worth understanding how European and American societies had somewhat different understandings of who they'd consider white - almost like it's a construct.

Whether Jewish peoples are viewed as white or not isn't likely to impact how prevalent antisemitic canards are.

As long as so-called wokes aren't contributing to spreading those canards, they're probably not the top priority compared to people who actively spread those canards, no?

It's not the so-called wokes marching and bellowing Jews will not replace us, the worst you're likely to encounter from so-called wokes is hostility directed towards Israel based on the actions of the Israeli government.

That's not to say that there's no one to the left of centre who buys into antisemitic positions, only that it's not where you'll find the bulk of the antisemites. There's also a pretty strong tendency for those folks to end up facing significant backlash from other lefties.


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20 Mar 2023, 2:56 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Because Jews are doing well either they are white and have white privilege or are white adjacent and are mooching off of white privilege. =


As with other white adjacent minorities (hispanics and east asians) they choose to identify with the winning team



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20 Mar 2023, 4:24 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
What she said was dumb, suspending her for it is also dumb. Interesting to see some pushback on the "Jews are just another type of white people" view that's been voguish on the left recently, perhaps the tides are starting to turn.



So Jewish people aren't white? What are they then? I thought white was because of our skin color. Had I been this literal all along? ?:


Jews, Arabs, and some ethnic groups from what are now Ethiopia and Eritrea are what we call Semites. Also, "Jews" as an ethnicity refers only to those born into the group, not those who converted to Judaism.

Someone who converts is Jewish in terms of religion, but not ethnicity or race.


I am going to repeat what I said earlier in the thread. I grew in the New York area at the same during the ‘60s and 70s like Whoopi. Jews like the Italians, and the Irish were considered white ethnic groups. There were basically 4 main races, white, black, brown, and yellow. I considered myself and most Jews white based on looking in the mirror. That is what Whoopi thought.

Then came woke ideology. Race is not based on skin color but is a social construct based on privilege and power. Thus there are all sorts of races. Because Jews are doing well either they are white and have white privilege or are white adjacent and are mooching off of white privilege.

The last time Jews were widely considered a separate race to put it mildly it did not go well. Now White nationalists are bringing back Jews as a separate race but wokes agree with them for different reasons. So why in hell should I not view wokeism as a threat?

Dude...Youre saying "by golly I want AMERICAN style White racism instead of European style White racism because American White racists consider me (a Jew) to be White, while Hitler and modern European neo Nazis consider me (Jews) to be "non-White".

But then in the same breath you say "I am afraid of brown folks who adopt Woke thinking because- woke brown folks consider me (a Jew) to be White".

So (a) youre admitting to being okay with racism...as long as you benefit from the racism and are not the target of it, but (b)you wanna have your cake and eat it too, by...wanting Whites to think of you as White, but for non Whites to ...NOT think of you as... White.

WOW!



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20 Mar 2023, 5:31 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
What she said was dumb, suspending her for it is also dumb. Interesting to see some pushback on the "Jews are just another type of white people" view that's been voguish on the left recently, perhaps the tides are starting to turn.



So Jewish people aren't white? What are they then? I thought white was because of our skin color. Had I been this literal all along? ?:


Jews, Arabs, and some ethnic groups from what are now Ethiopia and Eritrea are what we call Semites. Also, "Jews" as an ethnicity refers only to those born into the group, not those who converted to Judaism.

Someone who converts is Jewish in terms of religion, but not ethnicity or race.


I am going to repeat what I said earlier in the thread. I grew in the New York area at the same during the ‘60s and 70s like Whoopi. Jews like the Italians, and the Irish were considered white ethnic groups. There were basically 4 main races, white, black, brown, and yellow. I considered myself and most Jews white based on looking in the mirror. That is what Whoopi thought.

Then came woke ideology. Race is not based on skin color but is a social construct based on privilege and power. Thus there are all sorts of races. Because Jews are doing well either they are white and have white privilege or are white adjacent and are mooching off of white privilege.

The last time Jews were widely considered a separate race to put it mildly it did not go well. Now White nationalists are bringing back Jews as a separate race but wokes agree with them for different reasons. So why in hell should I not view wokeism as a threat?

Dude...Youre saying "by golly I want AMERICAN style White racism instead of European style White racism because American White racists consider me (a Jew) to be White, while Hitler and modern European neo Nazis consider me (Jews) to be "non-White".

But then in the same breath you say "I am afraid of brown folks who adopt Woke thinking because- woke brown folks consider me (a Jew) to be White".

So (a) youre admitting to being okay with racism...as long as you benefit from the racism and are not the target of it, but (b)you wanna have your cake and eat it too, by...wanting Whites to think of you as White, but for non Whites to ...NOT think of you as... White.

WOW!

I think of Jews as ethno-religious group not a race.

I think of myself as white based on skin color. I don’t mind Whoppi or blacks in general thinking of me as white. Most when they look at me are going to think that anyway.

American “white nationalism” is not all that different from the European kind, they both think of Jews as a conspiratorial race.

What “woke ideology” has evolved into is judgement base on your group be it race, gender etc. Groups are broken down into degrees of privileged or oppressed. Because Jews have done well and most American Jews have light skin many wokes think that Jews have the negative traits of racism and privilege because they view us as members of the white race or a “white adjacent” race.

A good percentage of Wokes are white and a lot of blacks don’t like wokism. Support for wokeism probably is as much or more of a generational thing then a racial thing at this point.

What I said is whenever Jews are thought of as a separate race it does not go well.
I don’t want to sugarcoat the ‘60’s and ‘70s. I was called k*e more times then I care to remember and our synagogue was “decorated” on Jewish Holidays. But it was not bad as the as the 30’s and 40’s the era of Father Caughlin, the Christian Front, 20,000 Nazi supporters at Madison Square Garden, A German Bund youth camp on Long Island, exclusion. I have read and heard a number of times that the idea that Jews were white was considered ludicrous to Jew and Gentile alike.

Now here we are in 2023 and Jews have been racialized by white nationalist and woke alike. Now Jews are being randomly attacked in the street, there have been terrorist attacks. So why should I think racializing Jews is good? I view it as letting the anti semites define us.

The “woke“ idea of assuming negative traits based on the group is known as prejudice. To me it don’t matter if it stems from the belief the negative traits are innate or comes from power dynamics.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 20 Mar 2023, 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Mar 2023, 6:05 pm

curiously, a few folk here and there told me i "looked jewish." hmmm. :scratch: aside from the Hasidic type, what is a jewish person supposed to look like? [rhetorical?] this is what i get for living in the sticks, i suppose.



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21 Mar 2023, 1:21 am

auntblabby wrote:
curiously, a few folk here and there told me i "looked jewish." hmmm. :scratch: aside from the Hasidic type, what is a jewish person supposed to look like? [rhetorical?] this is what i get for living in the sticks, i suppose.


I have a classic Roman nose (like the statues) but I don't have a drop of Italian ancestry



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21 Mar 2023, 1:37 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think of Jews as ethno-religious group not a race.

I think of myself as white based on skin color. .


This doesn't make sense to me?



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21 Mar 2023, 8:28 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think of Jews as ethno-religious group not a race.

I think of myself as white based on skin color. .


This doesn't make sense to me?

Do you think of Jews a distinct race or is the ethno-religious part is causing you confusion? Is defining race by skin color confusing you?


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21 Mar 2023, 5:42 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think of Jews as ethno-religious group not a race.

I think of myself as white based on skin color. .


This doesn't make sense to me?


Except for a lunatic fringe of both Jewish Nationalist, and of Jew-haters, the Jews arent usually thought of as a "race" unto themselves.

Most folks speak of "race" as a large continental sized group of humans who have a supposed genetic kinship evidenced by some physical trait (like skin color). And most folks speak of "races" as being subdivided into smaller ethnic groups. The Irish are an ethnic group that is a subset of European Whites. The Ashanti are tiny subset of Sub-Saharan Black Africans, etc. Race is thought of as being biological, and ethnicity is more fuzzy (cultural and hereditary).

Jews would be a small ethnic group. And the dispute is over which "race" they are a subset of. Hitler considered Jews to be of a different "race" than his White Aryan Germans, because they are part of the Middle Eastern Semitic "race" of brown folks to the east of Europe. ASPart would disagree with Hitler and would say to Hitler that "I, a Jew, am just as White as you Hitler!". As if that would make a difference to Hitler. Whoopie was ignorant of the fact that Nazism was all about racial theories of Aryan Supremecy, and about how much Nazism was influenced by turn of the century American Eugenicists. Nazism and American racism were cut from the same cloth.



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21 Mar 2023, 8:48 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think of Jews as ethno-religious group not a race.

I think of myself as white based on skin color. .


This doesn't make sense to me?

Do you think of Jews a distinct race or is the ethno-religious part is causing you confusion? Is defining race by skin color confusing you?


I am assuming you see safety/benefit in identifying as "white" as a protection against anti-semitism which seeks to distinguish jews as a race. That bit is understandable (although I thought you were too smart to fall for an antiquated slavery designation?)

But when you recognise that judaism is a religious distinction then that doesn't make sense to me. In order to be classified as a Jew the state of Israel you do need to prove Jewish ancestry. Let's not pretend this isn't a test
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... lly-jewish

A blonde haired Ashkenazi jew still has go through the steps of proving he/she's bloodline goes back to Abraham.



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22 Mar 2023, 9:39 pm

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think of Jews as ethno-religious group not a race.

I think of myself as white based on skin color. .


This doesn't make sense to me?

Do you think of Jews a distinct race or is the ethno-religious part is causing you confusion? Is defining race by skin color confusing you?


I am assuming you see safety/benefit in identifying as "white" as a protection against anti-semitism which seeks to distinguish jews as a race. That bit is understandable (although I thought you were too smart to fall for an antiquated slavery designation?)

But when you recognise that judaism is a religious distinction then that doesn't make sense to me. In order to be classified as a Jew the state of Israel you do need to prove Jewish ancestry. Let's not pretend this isn't a test
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... lly-jewish

A blonde haired Ashkenazi jew still has go through the steps of proving he/she's bloodline goes back to Abraham.

It is confusing. The question of who is a Jew is a disputed one that is not limited to white or Jewish nationalists. Is it a race, a religion, an ethnicity, or a combination? If you don't follow the religious tenants you are a Jew? I have noticed several articles by Jews of various persuasions in the wake of the spike in antisemitism saying something similar to "We have to stop kidding ourselves, we are a separate race". The "Who is a Jew" has some similarities to the "Who is Autistic" debate in that there's no clear definition, and it covers seemingly unrelated things. It is not as simple as Irish-Americans or Italian-Americans which is decided by what country your family immigrated from.

"antiquated slavery designation", Now I am confused.


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23 Mar 2023, 12:40 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
"antiquated slavery designation", Now I am confused.


White is an antiquated designation that persists because of ignorance and xenophobia.



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23 Mar 2023, 12:48 am

How you self-identify is up to you. However, internalising social norms is a strong factor,

If you look like this

Image

Then all the hard work is done for everyone to put you into a box

But! when you look like this (this is some kid on an Israeli Kibbutz)
Image

Then you can play the "I'm a white man" game



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23 Mar 2023, 1:27 am

cyberdad wrote:
How you self-identify is up to you.

Correct. Just because "woke" people are trying to change definitions for weaponization purposes does not mean I am obligated to go along with it. Race is all about skin color and other physical features. The oldest political trick is wearing people down by making simple things complicated and keep on changing meanings.


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