Reading the bible gets you out of jail

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cyberdad
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06 May 2022, 10:08 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Cyberdad. I don't think you have ever met changed people? How vastly their lives change when they accept Jesus Christ? I have seen it on many, many occasions. .


Read the link about the inmate I posted. She apparently showed no remorse or apologised to the families of the three children she killed at the school crosswalk in her SUV. A "proper" christian would at least asked for forgiveness? she comes across as entitled and (call me cynical) but simply attending bible class doesn't make one a "better" christian.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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06 May 2022, 10:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:
What if the inmate isn't christian?


What if that?
"
Whether participants choose to learn from character-based materials or faith-based materials, the living units are geared towards teaching core fundamental values that challenge and focus on positive reinforcement through learned behavior.
"
https://www.in.gov/idoc/about-idoc/idoc ... erve-plus/


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Matrix Glitch
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06 May 2022, 11:17 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
So a person who killed three children...was released early because she attended a "money smart" class???

Would THAT sound any less ridiculous? :lol:


What if the inmate isn't christian? doesn't it mean the list of options they have available to them is < than that for a christian inmate? sounds like a breach of the US constitution


There is only one elective course in that long list of elective courses you're complaining about. No one has to take any of them. Inmates only choose to take an elective course only if they want to take it. It sounds to me like what you really want is to see Bible study removed because you don't like the Bible.



cyberdad
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07 May 2022, 1:08 am

I guess being "money smart" might help a criminal who was unable to maintain their cash flow so resorted to petty crime to pay the bills (such prisoners probably make a good portion of the criminal population).

The one stand out is bible studies. It is christian biased. The last time I checked the US is not a christian country and there is no evidence listening to bible stories about god smoting the enemies of israel will make one a reformed person :roll:



Matrix Glitch
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07 May 2022, 3:17 am

Can you name a moral law of the US that wasn't already in the Bible? Did you know that debt forgiveness laws are taken from the Bible? Or that being wise in handeling money is in the Bible? Or that charity is highly emphasized? That being a good samaritan is directly from the Bible? Putting others ahead of yourself?



cyberdad
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07 May 2022, 4:05 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Can you name a moral law of the US that wasn't already in the Bible? Did you know that debt forgiveness laws are taken from the Bible? Or that being wise in handeling money is in the Bible? Or that charity is highly emphasized? That being a good samaritan is directly from the Bible? Putting others ahead of yourself?


That's a fair point but.....you are conflating jurisprudence (judeo-christian foundations of US and western laws) with actual application of the law which must firmly seperate the state apparatus (in this case the criminal-justice system) from religious influence.



Matrix Glitch
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07 May 2022, 5:47 am

cyberdad wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Can you name a moral law of the US that wasn't already in the Bible? Did you know that debt forgiveness laws are taken from the Bible? Or that being wise in handeling money is in the Bible? Or that charity is highly emphasized? That being a good samaritan is directly from the Bible? Putting others ahead of yourself?


That's a fair point but.....you are conflating jurisprudence (judeo-christian foundations of US and western laws) with actual application of the law which must firmly seperate the state apparatus (in this case the criminal-justice system) from religious influence.


Since when has there been a separation? Church services, prison chaplains and evangelism via Christians visiting prisoners exists in most if not all US prisons.

Of course if that's going to be eliminated, then Islam being practiced in prisons is also going to have to be eliminated. You know there's also Quran studies and Islamic religious services in prisons right? Of course if you made the same protest against the Quran and Islam in prison as you do the Bible and Christianity you would probably be accused of displaying Islamophobia.

And what about Atheism? It's recognized as a religion too. Should the Flying Spaghetti Monster be banned as well?

Why don't you make a list of what all should be banned from prisons that's religious.



naturalplastic
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07 May 2022, 6:57 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
So a person who killed three children...was released early because she attended a "money smart" class???

Would THAT sound any less ridiculous? :lol:


What if the inmate isn't christian? doesn't it mean the list of options they have available to them is < than that for a christian inmate? sounds like a breach of the US constitution


What does "Christian" have to do with it?

Jews also read the Bible, and so do Muslims. So no sect in any of the three big Abrahamic faiths is being favored at the expense of any other.

And if youre of a Dharmic faith (Buddhist, Hindu, Jaine) with non Biblical roots, or a Confucian, or are an Atheist it just so happens that the Bible is routinely taught as literature in secular college level Lit classes (like the Greek Myths, and Shakespeare) in the US anyway. So arguably it still wouldnt breach church and state.

Folks who end up incarcerated often can benefit from learning to read, study, and digest, the Bible just because its a difficult text, like Shakespeare. And if they master the study skills then they can apply that to school/vocational training outside of the prison.

And if "finding Jesus" results, fine. Or ...if they get grossed out by some lesser known parts of the Old Testament or get LSD flashbacks triggered by reading Revelations, and LOOSE faith then thats fine too. Lol! But as Glitch pointed out prisons have always had chaplains, and so has the military.

Even though I am not religious, and am all for seperation of church and state it doesnt strike me as all of that odd that Bible studies is just one among those 20 options that they offer to the incarcerated. Its not like they are all forced to take that one course.

Also Glitch forgot an argument that he coulda used. He coulda pointed out that "seperation of church and state" itself has precedent in the Bible. Jesus was probably the first voice in history to say anything like "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, and render unto God what is God's.".



cyberdad
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07 May 2022, 11:01 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Since when has there been a separation? Church services, prison chaplains and evangelism via Christians visiting prisoners exists in most if not all US prisons. .


naturalplastic wrote:
And if youre of a Dharmic faith (Buddhist, Hindu, Jaine) with non Biblical roots, or a Confucian, or are an Atheist it just so happens that the Bible is routinely taught as literature in secular college level Lit classes (like the Greek Myths, and Shakespeare) in the US anyway. So arguably it still wouldnt breach church and state.


You both are missing two points.
1. If the indiana Corrections choose to have a Bible study program (and let's say it doesn't breach constitutional law) then they need to offer equivalent programs for other groups

2. Alyssa Shepard was released early from prison on the basis of completing a bible study course. According to the Fulton county prosecutor Mike Marrs Shephard showed no remorse despite being charged with reckless homicide before her sentence (she thought oops my bad when she killed those children) never apologised for her actions before or after her release, This means the sole reason for her early release was being present during the bible class.

That would be the equivalent of giving somebody a drivers license after they showed evidence they watched an advanced drivers video.



naturalplastic
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08 May 2022, 12:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Since when has there been a separation? Church services, prison chaplains and evangelism via Christians visiting prisoners exists in most if not all US prisons. .


naturalplastic wrote:
And if youre of a Dharmic faith (Buddhist, Hindu, Jaine) with non Biblical roots, or a Confucian, or are an Atheist it just so happens that the Bible is routinely taught as literature in secular college level Lit classes (like the Greek Myths, and Shakespeare) in the US anyway. So arguably it still wouldnt breach church and state.


You both are missing two points.
1. If the indiana Corrections choose to have a Bible study program (and let's say it doesn't breach constitutional law) then they need to offer equivalent programs for other groups

2. Alyssa Shepard was released early from prison on the basis of completing a bible study course. According to the Fulton county prosecutor Mike Marrs Shephard showed no remorse despite being charged with reckless homicide before her sentence (she thought oops my bad when she killed those children) never apologised for her actions before or after her release, This means the sole reason for her early release was being present during the bible class.

That would be the equivalent of giving somebody a drivers license after they showed evidence they watched an advanced drivers video.


I already responded to your first point. And you didnt even state your first point very well. So I will state your point for you. "Why dont they offer Koran courses, or Wicca courses, or etc, if they are going to offer Bible courses?"

Thats what youre asking.

I already pointed out that they offer twenty other secular courses that "other groups" can take, and that the Bible already includes desperate religious groups, and not just "Christians", and that even atheists and Hindus study the Bible as literature in secular college lit courses.

Your drivers license analogy makes no sense because thats pretty much what states do...give you back your license after you watch some movies in a remedial driving class.

What you fail to explain is why is letting her out of prison after taking a Bible class any more asinine than letting her out after her taking a money smart class, or a cooking class, or whatever?



Matrix Glitch
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08 May 2022, 12:30 am

cyberdad wrote:
1. If the indiana Corrections choose to have a Bible study program (and let's say it doesn't breach constitutional law) then they need to offer equivalent programs for other groups


Like I already pointed out most prisons across the US have Bible studies and equivalent programs for other groups. I can't believe that didn't register. It's just Indiana bad. Bible bad.



cyberdad
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08 May 2022, 12:39 am

naturalplastic wrote:
What you fail to explain is why is letting her out of prison after taking a Bible class any more asinine than letting her out after her taking a money smart class, or a cooking class, or whatever?


In Alyssa Shepard's case it wouldn't have mattered since she showed no remorse anyway. But the fact they did use her attendance at bible class as justification for an early release was a slap in the face to the parents of the dead children,

I'm sure the jail superintendent wouldn't have been so cavalier if it had been his child run over.

BTW,,,,Just an update, it looks like the Fulton county judge reversed the early release order for the very same reason I was pointing out that the transition program (bible class) was not grounds for an early release.
https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime ... d9dc1ddbbf

Looks like there are sane people in the American judicial system after all. My congratulations to the judge for sanity and decency winning over stupidity.