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MaxE
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10 Jun 2022, 4:21 pm

Fnord wrote:
The committee was able to tie Trump's leadership directly to the actions of the Proud Boys and other insurrectionists that day.

Well you know the Proud Boys don't masturbate. Gotta give them props that.


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10 Jun 2022, 5:17 pm

I have been trying to keep up with it all. The real former First Lady, Ivanka, admitted to the committee that her father had lost the election, as did Trump's AG, Bill Barr.
I seriously hope that if prosecutions grow out of this, it will include not only Trump, but also top GOP congressional collaborators and in the Pentagon, as well as white nationalist foot soldiers on the ground during the day of the riot, and even cheerleaders like Ginny Thomas.


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DW_a_mom
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10 Jun 2022, 5:19 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
I've been hearing about this for weeks. Is there a date set for when a verdict will be reached?


Not sure if you're being sarcastic. It's essentially a report presentation, not a trial. The congressional committee giving a public presentation of the work it's been doing.


Maybe I was mislead by the title of this thread: "Jan 6th Hearings".
There have been so many hearings, inquiries and committes over the last few years, I haven't been following what's been going with the Jan 6 whatever it is. I'm just wondering when or if it's supposed to reach a conclusion. Isn't Trump going to jail over it? I keep hearing about him being sent to prison.


Actually prosecuting Trump seems to me like it would be difficult, but I think they are trying to get enough evidence for the Justice Department to do so. The committee itself does not have that power, it cannot indict or prosecute, but it can make referrals to the Justice Department. It is more likely that they can prove Trump violated his oath of office and incited others to crimes, than that he committed a statutory crime himself. Trump seems to have been playing at that line his entire career: push the lines, get someone else to actually break the law, keep oneself out of jail. Plenty of others have and are taking the legal fall for doing his dirty work.

I think the committee's goal is more to keep the man from ever holding a powerful office again. He has no respect for the constitution or the checks and balances of our government. He literally nearly destroyed our democracy.


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DW_a_mom
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10 Jun 2022, 5:22 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
No chance of learning something I don't already know. Pass.


If any part of you believes this was a protest (or that we've seen worse) and not a riot leading to attempted insurrection, you need to listen to the montage that included the police call recordings. The forces sworn to protect and serve, on the ground, calling it as they saw it while it was happening.


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10 Jun 2022, 8:36 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I hope so too, if only so they will not all die from shock when their beloved Donald is convicted of treason.


Heh yeah, that and just general acceptance of objective reality vs. the nonsense they've been spoon fed by Faux News.

Do you Hope the orange guy will be convicted of treason, or, do you really truly Believe that he will be? :?



I'm just a Canadian layman. His actions certainly look treasonous to me. But I'm not an American lawyer or judge and don't Know for certain that he's likely to be charged with and convicted of treason. It'd be pretty sweet if he was, though. That'd certainly prevent him from running for office again. Also, besides money, he's so egotistical about his name and brand image.. about his legacy.. and such a conviction would flush all that right down his golden toilet and piss him right off for the rest of his natural life - going down as the worst American president in history.. bested in every way by his black predecessor, Obama. 8)


Trump will not pay for his crimes, just like all the presidents of my lifetime and beyond didn't pay for theirs. That's how it goes in America. Don't look for it. It ain't gonna happen.

As far as the worst president in U.S. history, I think Andrew Jackson was far worse than Trump. He is the only POTUS to defy a Supreme Court ruling that granted the Cherokee the right to remain on their lands. We all know how that played out.


Off topic but did you get a proper "welcome back to WP" after your long 300 page "farewell vegetableman thread" ?



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10 Jun 2022, 8:40 pm

I can't possibly sit through a 3 hr hearing so is there any validity in Glitch's point that there's no new evidence to bring Trump down?

Is there a some type of US constitutional hidden clause that protects current or past presidents from being thrown in jail for criminal conduct?

For example people worship Thomas Jefferson (his face looms large to millions around the world on Mount Rushmore) as a founding father despite him being a pedophile.



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10 Jun 2022, 9:48 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
My biggest concern about this whole trial presentation miniseries is that only those on the political left who already believe all this stuff are going to watch it.. and those who are right leaning will actively avoid watching it and remain ignorant. I HOPE they're watching, though.. and learning that things are Not as they were told they were.

I do not know what they can do to affect the mid-terms and beyond. We are too tribal, our narratives set in stone. Inflation, shortages, crime, and the usual opposition party mid-term gains portend a red wave. Maybe abortion and school shootings mitigate some of that. MAYBE.


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DW_a_mom
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10 Jun 2022, 10:11 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I can't possibly sit through a 3 hr hearing so is there any validity in Glitch's point that there's no new evidence to bring Trump down?

Is there a some type of US constitutional hidden clause that protects current or past presidents from being thrown in jail for criminal conduct?

For example people worship Thomas Jefferson (his face looms large to millions around the world on Mount Rushmore) as a founding father despite him being a pedophile.


There is new evidence, footage and testimony that the public has not seen or heard before.

But prosecuting Trump criminally for his part would require proving he knew his words would inspire certain actions or attempted actions, and when it comes to proving what is inside someone’s head, there is a really steep hill to climb. Most of what he does follows the classic strong arm tactic of making a threat without ever speaking the threat, like he did on the Ukraine and Georgia calls. It isn’t criminal to state that you think an election was stolen, or to make false statements in furtherance of one’s own political agenda. I’m not a lawyer, but I believe he’s threaded the needle well enough to make attempts at criminal prosecution infeasible. I’ve worked with a lot of people like him in my career, and they always get away with it. They also leave a lot of wreckage in their wake and associates who get stuck taking the fall for them. The ultimate white collar power game.

What’s good to hear is how many in his administration wrestled with their oath’s of office as they saw what was happening, and felt duty bound to step away. Many have testified. The oath of office is to the constitution, not to Trump, no matter how strongly he pushed people to stay loyal.

What is more likely to come of this are new laws restricting presidential power. Once we understand what really happened, the goal is to keep it from happening again. The risk doesn’t end with Trump. He’s just the one who was riding the bull when it went through the China shop.


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Matrix Glitch
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10 Jun 2022, 10:39 pm

Fnord wrote:
↑ Last night's public hearings on Trump's January 6th coup attempt infuriated me so much that I had to walk around the block a few times to cool off (7813 steps, yay!).  The committee was able to tie Trump's leadership directly to the actions of the Proud Boys and other insurrectionists that day.  I wanted to call every Trump fan I know just to say, "I told you so", but that would have brought me down to their level.


So what is the result?



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10 Jun 2022, 10:44 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
I've been hearing about this for weeks. Is there a date set for when a verdict will be reached?


Not sure if you're being sarcastic. It's essentially a report presentation, not a trial. The congressional committee giving a public presentation of the work it's been doing.


Maybe I was mislead by the title of this thread: "Jan 6th Hearings".
There have been so many hearings, inquiries and committes over the last few years, I haven't been following what's been going with the Jan 6 whatever it is. I'm just wondering when or if it's supposed to reach a conclusion. Isn't Trump going to jail over it? I keep hearing about him being sent to prison.


Actually prosecuting Trump seems to me like it would be difficult, but I think they are trying to get enough evidence for the Justice Department to do so. The committee itself does not have that power, it cannot indict or prosecute, but it can make referrals to the Justice Department. It is more likely that they can prove Trump violated his oath of office and incited others to crimes, than that he committed a statutory crime himself. Trump seems to have been playing at that line his entire career: push the lines, get someone else to actually break the law, keep oneself out of jail. Plenty of others have and are taking the legal fall for doing his dirty work.

I think the committee's goal is more to keep the man from ever holding a powerful office again. He has no respect for the constitution or the checks and balances of our government. He literally nearly destroyed our democracy.


So goal A is to keep him from being re-elected. And goal B is sending him to prison.



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10 Jun 2022, 11:19 pm

cyberdad wrote:
I can't possibly sit through a 3 hr hearing so is there any validity in Glitch's point that there's no new evidence to bring Trump down?

Is there a some type of US constitutional hidden clause that protects current or past presidents from being thrown in jail for criminal conduct?

For example people worship Thomas Jefferson (his face looms large to millions around the world on Mount Rushmore) as a founding father despite him being a pedophile.


Opposing political parties have been reluctant to press criminal charges against sitting and former Presidents, for fear that partisanism would look like the actions of a banana republic, rather than something done in the country that considers itself to be the heart of democracy. Even though the GOP had allowed itself to be wrangled by Trump's chant: "Lock her up!"


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11 Jun 2022, 12:08 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I can't possibly sit through a 3 hr hearing so is there any validity in Glitch's point that there's no new evidence to bring Trump down?

Is there a some type of US constitutional hidden clause that protects current or past presidents from being thrown in jail for criminal conduct?

For example people worship Thomas Jefferson (his face looms large to millions around the world on Mount Rushmore) as a founding father despite him being a pedophile.


Opposing political parties have been reluctant to press criminal charges against sitting and former Presidents, for fear that partisanism would look like the actions of a banana republic, rather than something done in the country that considers itself to be the heart of democracy. Even though the GOP had allowed itself to be wrangled by Trump's chant: "Lock her up!"


This is different, tho.. if the DOJ doesn't press charges, it shows not only Americans, but the entire world, that the rule of law counts for exactly jack s**t in the USA. If the DOJ doesn't press charges it'll make them look like total chumps.. partisan chumps at that. Like some official/ex-official said in an interview today: If the DOJ doesn't press charges it'll appear partisan in favour of trump, once you consider all of the blatant evidence of his crimes. Even if there isn't a conviction, I think a whooooole lot of people are expecting some sort of official action to be taken against trump for the whole trying to subvert American democracy thing..


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cyberdad
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11 Jun 2022, 12:12 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Even though the GOP had allowed itself to be wrangled by Trump's chant: "Lock her up!"


They "allow" themselves to be given a green light to be vile. I can't forget the F**K Joe Biden meme went viral across millions of republicans, most of whom pretend to be "pure" church going christians



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11 Jun 2022, 12:14 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I can't possibly sit through a 3 hr hearing so is there any validity in Glitch's point that there's no new evidence to bring Trump down?

Is there a some type of US constitutional hidden clause that protects current or past presidents from being thrown in jail for criminal conduct?

For example people worship Thomas Jefferson (his face looms large to millions around the world on Mount Rushmore) as a founding father despite him being a pedophile.


There is new evidence, footage and testimony that the public has not seen or heard before.


Well this is certainly different.
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... d8c9f906b3

Trump's daughter is trying to wriggle herself from her father's criminal syndicate



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11 Jun 2022, 12:24 am

Looks like the FBI are starting to clean out the GOP rat's nest
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61738919

Good job boys



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11 Jun 2022, 12:48 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I can't possibly sit through a 3 hr hearing so is there any validity in Glitch's point that there's no new evidence to bring Trump down?

Is there a some type of US constitutional hidden clause that protects current or past presidents from being thrown in jail for criminal conduct?

For example people worship Thomas Jefferson (his face looms large to millions around the world on Mount Rushmore) as a founding father despite him being a pedophile.


Opposing political parties have been reluctant to press criminal charges against sitting and former Presidents, for fear that partisanism would look like the actions of a banana republic, rather than something done in the country that considers itself to be the heart of democracy. Even though the GOP had allowed itself to be wrangled by Trump's chant: "Lock her up!"


This is different, tho.. if the DOJ doesn't press charges, it shows not only Americans, but the entire world, that the rule of law counts for exactly jack s**t in the USA. If the DOJ doesn't press charges it'll make them look like total chumps.. partisan chumps at that. Like some official/ex-official said in an interview today: If the DOJ doesn't press charges it'll appear partisan in favour of trump, once you consider all of the blatant evidence of his crimes. Even if there isn't a conviction, I think a whooooole lot of people are expecting some sort of official action to be taken against trump for the whole trying to subvert American democracy thing..


Yes, I know. Trying to look good sometimes makes you look really bad.


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