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goldfish21
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11 Jun 2022, 12:57 am

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r00tb33r
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11 Jun 2022, 5:12 am

Meanwhile at the gas station... $5 a gallon.

I'm sure those at the hearing got nothing better to do.


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ASPartOfMe
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11 Jun 2022, 8:38 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
I've been hearing about this for weeks. Is there a date set for when a verdict will be reached?


Not sure if you're being sarcastic. It's essentially a report presentation, not a trial. The congressional committee giving a public presentation of the work it's been doing.


Maybe I was mislead by the title of this thread: "Jan 6th Hearings".
There have been so many hearings, inquiries and committes over the last few years, I haven't been following what's been going with the Jan 6 whatever it is. I'm just wondering when or if it's supposed to reach a conclusion. Isn't Trump going to jail over it? I keep hearing about him being sent to prison.


Actually prosecuting Trump seems to me like it would be difficult, but I think they are trying to get enough evidence for the Justice Department to do so. The committee itself does not have that power, it cannot indict or prosecute, but it can make referrals to the Justice Department. It is more likely that they can prove Trump violated his oath of office and incited others to crimes, than that he committed a statutory crime himself. Trump seems to have been playing at that line his entire career: push the lines, get someone else to actually break the law, keep oneself out of jail. Plenty of others have and are taking the legal fall for doing his dirty work.

I think the committee's goal is more to keep the man from ever holding a powerful office again. He has no respect for the constitution or the checks and balances of our government. He literally nearly destroyed our democracy.

Goal A is to prevent Republican was

So goal A is to keep him from being re-elected. And goal B is sending him to prison.

Goal A is the mid terms. It is up to the states to pick members of the electoral college. If the Republicans control states they can appoint members of the electoral college who if the Democratic candidate wins the most votes in that state would vote for Trump anyway.

If the Republicans control congress they can vote to decertify an electoral college vote Trump lost.

Congress does not have the power at this point to prevent Trump from running for President. Prosecutors do not either. There is nothing in the constitution to prevent Trump from running for President from prison. Congress had the chance to prevent Trump from running for President. They had that option during the impeachment trail but when they acquitted him that opportunity was lost forever.


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goldfish21
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11 Jun 2022, 4:07 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
Meanwhile at the gas station... $5 a gallon.

I'm sure those at the hearing got nothing better to do.


Gasoline prices are up all around the world. Those at the hearing don't set the price of gasoline. Media types suggesting that they do are merely trying to distract people from taking the January 6th Hearings seriously. An attempt to overthrow the United States Government and install a former president as an authoritarian dictator is kind of a big deal and worthy of this committee's and the public's attention.


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11 Jun 2022, 7:20 pm

Watching it now on MSNBC On Demand. I always knew it was this bad. I just didn't know they had footage of it. Who recorded this stuff? I assume protesters.

It's just newscasters talking about it and showing footage.


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cyberdad
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11 Jun 2022, 7:31 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
Meanwhile at the gas station... $5 a gallon.

I'm sure those at the hearing got nothing better to do.


Gasoline prices are up all around the world. Those at the hearing don't set the price of gasoline. Media types suggesting that they do are merely trying to distract people from taking the January 6th Hearings seriously. An attempt to overthrow the United States Government and install a former president as an authoritarian dictator is kind of a big deal and worthy of this committee's and the public's attention.


It's Biden's fault :roll:



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11 Jun 2022, 9:45 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
Meanwhile at the gas station... $5 a gallon.

I'm sure those at the hearing got nothing better to do.


I realize that getting through a week with the rent paid and food bought always comes first, but if you care about having your vote count in the future, you need to understand and care about what happened January 6th. The evidence is overwhelming that the election was fair, and that the irregularities could not have changed the result. So what does Trump do? Since he can't win in a fair election, he can't get any courts to believe it wasn't a fair election, and he can't get the states to change their results by applying political pressure, he mobilizes the masses to believe their votes were stolen so that they will create pressure for politicians to be able to change the results when the politicians want to. Was it brave or criminal to storm the capital? I guess that, in part, depends on whether or not one sincerely believes Democracy was at risk if government followed the constitution and certified the electors that day. It also depends, in part, if you believe in our constitution and the guard rails put in place by our founders. In other words, those rioting (and, yes, that is the right word) clearly did not believe the checks and balances were working. But, you see, I do. Even when I hate the result. Even when a supreme court ends up picking the president like happened in 2000. Even when I know that more and more of freedoms that I treasure will fall in the next few decades because of a Supreme Court that doesn't care about what I do, and may well be inclined to let states run roughshod over the rights of the voters in their states, so the current state-level party can stay in power. Because eventually tides turn and pendulums swing, and I care about protecting our constitutional processes more than I care about policy at any given point, or even how it affects my life at any given point. Because as long as the process is honored, we will get through our challenges.

Even gas price challenges, which are existing worldwide because, no, our president doesn't control the price of gas despite all the funny stickers at gas stations (yes, I don't find them funny; I shouldn't, but I do). The various solutions Biden apparently won't consider are either a drop in the bucket or won't help until years from now, when the short term crisis will likely have long been over. Prove me wrong on that, tell what he should be doing that he isn't. The best answer continues to be to become less oil dependent. We've come to this same place over and over for a smorgasbord of different reasons, but the path forward to prevent a "next time" remains the same.

Inflation seems to be a worldwide problem, as well, and it is pinching my family horribly. But, again, what can our current president do? Maybe there shouldn't have been an American Rescue Plan. But, then again, maybe there shouldn't have been a 2017 TCJA and additional loosening of the purse strings at the federal reserve when we were already on a decade of continued economic growth. It's never just one decision that trips the inflation wire.

So, yeah, I care. I'm not glued to my TV hanging on every word. But I care.


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11 Jun 2022, 9:54 pm

It was an attempted coup. A banana-republic type coup.

I doubt that a majority-Republican Congress (this time, “Congress” includes the Senate) could de-certify an election. Technically, perhaps they could….but not in a practical sense. They know an act like this would destroy the country. Pence certainly knew.

If it, somehow, actually did, we would be no better than some place like Belarus. Our credibility would be in the toilet.



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11 Jun 2022, 10:18 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It was an attempted coup. A banana-republic type coup.

I doubt that a majority-Republican Congress (this time, “Congress” includes the Senate) could de-certify an election. Technically, perhaps they could….but not in a practical sense. They know an act like this would destroy the country. Pence certainly knew.

If it, somehow, actually did, we would be no better than some place like Belarus. Our credibility would be in the toilet.


I hate to burst your bubble, the USA credibility has been in the toilet since the late 1960’s. Why don’t we burn the Constitution, and rename this country Mahagonny, after the fictional country in Bertoldt Brecht’s play, where everything is legal, except for being poor, which is a crime, punishable by death!



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11 Jun 2022, 10:51 pm

There were former Trump supporters admitting to all this and they truly felt they had to be there for him or they are letting him down. They confirmed he planned all this. One of them got 36 month probation.

I almost felt sorry for these people. I believe some of them are going to be testifying against Trump.

Everyone told Trump he lost the election. They implied he lied about it being stolen than him truly believing it.

I felt like they were telling everything I already knew. I can't believe they have to do a show on this to prove to everyone. :roll:


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goldfish21
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12 Jun 2022, 2:08 pm

League_Girl wrote:
There were former Trump supporters admitting to all this and they truly felt they had to be there for him or they are letting him down. They confirmed he planned all this. One of them got 36 month probation.

I almost felt sorry for these people. I believe some of them are going to be testifying against Trump.

Everyone told Trump he lost the election. They implied he lied about it being stolen than him truly believing it.

I felt like they were telling everything I already knew. I can't believe they have to do a show on this to prove to everyone. :roll:


And yet a huge number of people who really need to see this show/miniseries won't even watch it.. the die hard maga people that only watch Faux News and prefer to keep their heads stuck in the sand vs. learn anything about what really happened because they can't accept that their idol is false.

But hopefully a whole lot of people who are trump supporters, republicans, conservatives and even some maga people did actually tune in and watch or will watch it still. The more people that see it the better. People need to have a well rounded idea of what actually happened - not what trump says happened. MAYBE some trump supporters will change their tune and decide they no longer support him and that message will spread to others. I don't expect the most die hard trump supporters to change their minds much, though.. some of them are far too deep in their cult mentality to ever change their minds.. which could be very dangerous in terms of more strategic political manipulation and/or violence.


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12 Jun 2022, 6:10 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
And yet a huge number of people who really need to see this show/miniseries won't even watch it.. the die hard maga people that only watch Faux News and prefer to keep their heads stuck in the sand vs. learn anything about what really happened because they can't accept that their idol is false..


I don't think that will be enough to deprogram them. The current die-hard MAGAs are literally like members of a cult. They need psychiatric treatment. This has not happened yet.

They are exposed to conspiracies peddled by the GOP party, Trump, their local GOP politicians, QAnon, right wing podcasters and by Fox news Many of these people were already in the Anti-Obama camp as early as 2008 and card carrying members of the Tea Party listening to pre-MAGA luminaries like Sarah Palin and members of the republican party who used to push outrageous lies about Obama being a muslim, being born in Kenya etc. They carried racist placards about Obama and how free healthcare would destroy America.

These people were identified by Bannon/Trump as fertile ground to plant more conspiracies, initially about Hillary Clinton but also about illegal immigration and other outright lies.

The current die-hards who believe the 2020 election was stolen will not relent and I fear will go underground waiting for their great pumpkin (Trump) to arise in 2024.



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12 Jun 2022, 6:20 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
There were former Trump supporters admitting to all this and they truly felt they had to be there for him or they are letting him down. They confirmed he planned all this. One of them got 36 month probation.

I almost felt sorry for these people. I believe some of them are going to be testifying against Trump.

Everyone told Trump he lost the election. They implied he lied about it being stolen than him truly believing it.

I felt like they were telling everything I already knew. I can't believe they have to do a show on this to prove to everyone. :roll:


And yet a huge number of people who really need to see this show/miniseries won't even watch it.. the die hard maga people that only watch Faux News and prefer to keep their heads stuck in the sand vs. learn anything about what really happened because they can't accept that their idol is false.

But hopefully a whole lot of people who are trump supporters, republicans, conservatives and even some maga people did actually tune in and watch or will watch it still. The more people that see it the better. People need to have a well rounded idea of what actually happened - not what trump says happened. MAYBE some trump supporters will change their tune and decide they no longer support him and that message will spread to others. I don't expect the most die hard trump supporters to change their minds much, though.. some of them are far too deep in their cult mentality to ever change their minds.. which could be very dangerous in terms of more strategic political manipulation and/or violence.


MAGA has grown past Trump. Even if they decide Trump himself is a liability, they will elect his candidates, which will continue to lay the groundwork for voter suppression, state ability to change vote results based on dubious claims (as long as it helps the party in power in the state), etc.

I think the committee knows all that. But if they can keep Trump from re-election, there could be time for the trends to run their natural course without permanently shredding the constitution.


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cyberdad
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12 Jun 2022, 6:48 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
MAGA has grown past Trump. Even if they decide Trump himself is a liability, they will elect his candidates, which will continue to lay the groundwork for voter suppression, state ability to change vote results based on dubious claims (as long as it helps the party in power in the state), etc.

I think the committee knows all that. But if they can keep Trump from re-election, there could be time for the trends to run their natural course without permanently shredding the constitution.


I would have thought Trump is inextricably linked to the insurrection? those who stormed the capitol did it for him.



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12 Jun 2022, 7:44 pm

cyberdad wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
MAGA has grown past Trump. Even if they decide Trump himself is a liability, they will elect his candidates, which will continue to lay the groundwork for voter suppression, state ability to change vote results based on dubious claims (as long as it helps the party in power in the state), etc.

I think the committee knows all that. But if they can keep Trump from re-election, there could be time for the trends to run their natural course without permanently shredding the constitution.


I would have thought Trump is inextricably linked to the insurrection? those who stormed the capitol did it for him.


I think he is inextricably linked to Jan 6th, yes, but not necessarily to the MAGA movement and take-over of the Republican party on an on-going basis. He tapped into and vocalized something that was already there.


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12 Jun 2022, 9:30 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
I think he is inextricably linked to Jan 6th, yes, but not necessarily to the MAGA movement and take-over of the Republican party on an on-going basis. He tapped into and vocalized something that was already there.


I'm having difficulty separating the transformation in the 2022 Republican party to the influence of Trump?
Yes I agree they are tapping into something that's already there. The US shares something in common with China where the factors for social and political unrest are obvious but suppressed. I seriously think the Obama years nurtured a seething resentment in the red state populations that has manifested in distorted thinking and externalising behavior, Trump's emergence in 2016 drew the tea party people like moths to a flame.