F.B.I. Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

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naturalplastic
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11 Aug 2022, 7:23 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I worry more about Biden when it comes to initiating a nuclear holocaust, since he's been a war monger his entire career. Trump didn't start a new war during his four years, but of course didn't live up to his campaign promise of ending them either.


Trump was working tirelessly to get us into a war with Iran, and would have delivered us that war by now if he had been reelected.

In contrast Biden has subtracted one war, Afghanistan, from our grocery list of wars.


Oh, Jesus Christ! That's hilarious! Oh, we're out of Afganistan, but Biden has already bombed Syria, Somalia, and put us in a very dangerous situation with Russia.

Trump actually backed down on Iran. I give credit where it is due.


Trump 'backed down' from the crise he himself created? Whoopie.

Let me in on the joke. How exactly is it 'hilarious'?

Did Biden force Putin at gunpoint to invade Ukraine?


How did Trump create the Iran crisis?


The fact that you ask that question really IS 'hilarious' after you both blame trump for continuing what you call "US genocide in Yemen", and credit Trump for 'backing down' (implying that you know full well that Trump was provoking them in the first place).

Obama had an even handed approach to the regional cold war in the Middle East between Israel, and the Saudies on one hand...and Iran on the other. Trump abandoned that for a purely pro Saudi/Israel stance. Which included policies of supporting the Saudi backing of a faction in the Yemen civil war. And then Trump assassinated the Iranian General Solemonie while he was in Iraq (Biden has never done anything that rash and provocative yet)- which started the current cycle of violence thats now in the news again between us and them.

So Biden dropped a few bombs in two places we were already at war in. He pulled out of Afganistan.

So you admit that Biden didnt start the Ukraine war. But you still blame Biden for the Ukraine war anyway?

Like FDR's Lend-Lease program for Britain "prolonged" world war two by making it hard for Hitler to conquer Britain -Biden could be said to be 'prolonging' the war.

So...you support Putin conquering the Ukraine? Is that what you are saying?



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11 Aug 2022, 8:11 pm

You're not making any sense at all. The fact remains that Trump didn't start a war with Iran, despite bad decisions he made.

Biden dropped a few bombs. Gosh! You couldn't get any more cavalier about war than that. How do you sleep at night?

I never said that I supported the invasion of Ukraine. What I did say was the current leadership in Washington is ramping of the tensions between the U S. And Russia to a dangerous point that could lead a nuclear situation.


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11 Aug 2022, 8:11 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Things just might proceed at a fast rate over the coming weeks......

Common sense will win out.

However many weeks it is until midterm voting. Then it will subside until we get closer to 2024 voting.



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11 Aug 2022, 8:35 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Image

That's cute, but it shows not knowing the difference between an informant and a mole aka spy. Moles are implanted to spy and report. In order for Melania to be a mole, that would mean she was already working under cover for the FBI when she married Trump. Which would basically mean:

Image



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11 Aug 2022, 8:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Obama had an even handed approach to the regional cold war in the Middle East between Israel, and the Saudies on one hand...and Iran on the other.


LOL.

You really should do some reading on the Obama years and our Middle Eastern misadventures, the most charitable word I'd use to describe them would be "incoherent". W can and should be blamed for a lot of the mess, but Obama escalated and even expanded on many of the worst practices and policies, involving us in an additional 6 conflicts to W's 3, and continuing our bizarre pattern of seemingly randomly backing one set of enemies against the other, often playing both sides against each other in different places.

I've recently being doing some reading on this myself and I'll admit that I didn't realize how bad it was at the time, we'd be backing Iran aligned Shi'ite groups against AQ Sunnis in one place, and then backing the Sunnis against the Shiites just over a border, up to and including AQ groups if we thought the Iranians were gaining too much influence, with little rhyme or reason and seemingly no concept of how that might blow up in our collective face (e.g. our money and weapons "leaking" back to be used against us). Obama got away with a lot of it because the US electorate doesn't really understand the Middle East and its byzantine geopolitics, and Obama was so much smoother than W was, plus by shifting to drones and SOF vs more visible interventions he was able to do a lot more out of the public eye.

I'll admit, I probably hold more of a grudge here than most as i voted for Obama on his anti war stance after the W years, and his subsequent foreign policy adventurism played a significant role in disillusioning me with American politics, especially when paired with the willful blindness so many liberals seem to have developed towards his many failings. He did a lot more than wear a tan suit one time.


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11 Aug 2022, 8:55 pm

I'd really have thought the tapes her former friend released would have killed this weird fixation that resistance liberals have towards the idea of Melania the hostage, she's a Trump in every sense of the word.


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11 Aug 2022, 9:06 pm

I like how they disparage her with the broken English routine.



Dox47
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11 Aug 2022, 9:12 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
I like how they disparage her with the broken English routine.


Right? Just like how it's somehow okay to use racial slurs against Clarence Thomas, one begins to suspect there's an element of projection in the woke worldview of thinking everyone is secretly a barely restrained bigot in private.


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11 Aug 2022, 9:16 pm

Dox47 wrote:
I'd really have thought the tapes her former friend released would have killed this weird fixation that resistance liberals have towards the idea of Melania the hostage, she's a Trump in every sense of the word.


She's hardly a hostage, and she's probably a devoted Trumpist. That said, the hostilities between herself and the Donald is much more relationship based. She was sick and tired of his adultery when he won the Presidency back in 2016, and probably had been planning on divorcing him prior to that. The fact that she wanted to stay in New York probably had little to do with her son's education, and more to do with putting distance between herself and the scumbucket who had betrayed their marriage. It's a known fact that they did not share a common bedroom in the White House.
Before you say anything about Bill Clinton, I'll remind you that he and Hilary weathered the storm of his affairs, and that Slick Willy remained married to a single woman for all these years, whereas Trump is on his - what - third marriage?


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11 Aug 2022, 9:22 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Before you say anything about Bill Clinton, I'll remind you that he and Hilary weathered the storm of his affairs, and that Slick Willy remained married to a single woman for all these years, whereas Trump is on his - what - third marriage?


You seem to have missed the part where I really don't care (do U?) about the state of the Trump marriage(s), but was instead commenting on the weird projections onto Melania by resistance liberals.


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11 Aug 2022, 9:23 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I'd really have thought the tapes her former friend released would have killed this weird fixation that resistance liberals have towards the idea of Melania the hostage, she's a Trump in every sense of the word.


She's hardly a hostage, and she's probably a devoted Trumpist. That said, the hostilities between herself and the Donald is much more relationship based. She was sick and tired of his adultery when he won the Presidency back in 2016, and probably had been planning on divorcing him prior to that. The fact that she wanted to stay in New York probably had little to do with her son's education, and more to do with putting distance between herself and the scumbucket who had betrayed their marriage. It's a known fact that they did not share a common bedroom in the White House.
Before you say anything about Bill Clinton, I'll remind you that he and Hilary weathered the storm of his affairs, and that Slick Willy remained married to a single woman for all these years, whereas Trump is on his - what - third marriage?

What does any of that tabloid trash have to do with the idea of Melania Trump being an FBI mole?



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11 Aug 2022, 9:49 pm

Feds sought docs on nuclear weapons during raid at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate: report

Quote:
FBI agents were searching for classified documents concerning nuclear weapons when feds raided former President Donald Trump’s Florida mansion, a report said Thursday.

People familiar with the investigation told The Washington Post that the sensitive documents were among the items pursued by the FBI in Monday’s raid.

The unnamed sources didn’t provide more details about the specific information sought in the raid. They also did not disclose whether the documents pertained to weapons from the US or another country.

It was also unclear on Thursday night whether the classified documents were discovered by agents in the raid.


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11 Aug 2022, 9:59 pm

Nukes, huh? I know Trump was big into modernizing our strategic arsenal, one of the few things he took a personal interest in, I could see him hanging onto documents on that to brag about. I can't imagine he would have had technical specs or anything like that, too far beyond his understanding and not the sort of thing a president would need to know, but force disposition and what we have where is plausible, and definitely not the sort of thing you'd want floating around. That being said, it's still weird that they'd act now and not earlier if whatever it is is really that sensitive.


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12 Aug 2022, 12:34 am

Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I hope your frustration and need to retaliate with a vote won't take you to the point of voting for someone who will do their darn best to destroy our constitutional checks and balances and Democracy as we know it.


If that's what it takes to destroy the current left, than that's what it takes.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Are you referencing local policies that have had a detrimental effect on your businesses and quality of life when you mention "they won't leave me alone?"


Among other things. I'd love to just be able to live my life and not pay attention to politics, like a normal person, but every time I turn around the left is trying to make me a felon for something I own, or drum me out of business for having the wrong opinion that was completely normal 15 minutes ago, I'm tired of it. Add in the smug self righteousness and endless moralizing from some of the truly dumbest and most ignorant people I've met in my life, and voting for an obnoxious politician starts to seem like the positively restrained option vs others that I have on the table.

Trust me, your sentiment is a growing one. I've never seen such pure searing hatred in some people's eyes as when progressives and progressive doctrine are mentioned. They don't just make jokes like they used to, they want to kill.


Not everyone on the left is the same, I hope you both realize that. But I can't deny there is a segment that is basically as closed minded and self-righteous as they like to accuse the evangelical right of being, and it isn't any more attractive on them than it is on the other side. A lot of us on the left are trying to tell friends in this group that their attitudes and behaviors are backfiring, but its a long, slow process. I'm not perfect, either, obviously, sometimes believing some data so strongly I present less of a sales pitch than what comes across as a lecture. But I am relatively self-aware, I think. Still, policy wise, I feel slightly left ideas have a lot more data behind how they can benefit the majority of citizens than conservative ideas do. You have to spend money to make money, and that is just as true when investing in people as it is when investing in business. Plus the whole abortion issue, where I strongly feel the law has no place and does more harm than good (despite being highly pro-life in other ways). I hate to think the direction of our country is going to be decided more by annoyance level than by facts, but we're far from the only country facing the same types of issues and attitudes.

Life isn't producing the promises we thought it had made us and people are frustrated. That frustration draws different people in different directions, but it many ways it all comes from similar places.

Some areas of conflict and frustration, like with guns, could be mitigated, I think, if the right would concede SOMETHING, instead of always echoing the NRA line. If the proposals on the left won't work, come up with something that can make sense to the left instead of repeating the same old lines. I want to let everyone have their guns if they want them, but the second amendment wasn't written with an eye on today's weapon options, and I also can't deny the very real, long term, negative effects a life-time of school shootings and drills has had on my now adult children. Anxiety levels in youth are through the roof, and they are MAD. We're leaving them a messed up climate, we've failed to act when kids are shot at school, we let "trickle down" erode their expected standard of living, and so on. It's not really surprising that everyone is drawing into extreme camps, but it also isn't productive. We need to let youth like my kids be seen, too.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 12 Aug 2022, 12:51 am, edited 3 times in total.

DW_a_mom
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12 Aug 2022, 12:38 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Feds sought docs on nuclear weapons during raid at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate: report
Quote:
FBI agents were searching for classified documents concerning nuclear weapons when feds raided former President Donald Trump’s Florida mansion, a report said Thursday.

People familiar with the investigation told The Washington Post that the sensitive documents were among the items pursued by the FBI in Monday’s raid.

The unnamed sources didn’t provide more details about the specific information sought in the raid. They also did not disclose whether the documents pertained to weapons from the US or another country.

It was also unclear on Thursday night whether the classified documents were discovered by agents in the raid.


Interesting.

Well ... when or if they ever have a prosecutable case, then we'll know. Otherwise, we can speculate until pigs fly.


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12 Aug 2022, 1:18 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Not everyone on the left is the same, I hope you both realize that.


I do, but it gets tedious trying to sort you out and no one uses any of the terms with consistency; if I mention religious conservatives, MAGAs, Never Trumpers, or libertarians, people know exactly who I'm talking about and might even answer to the label themselves, but trying to differentiate between normie Dems (you), identitarians (they resist naming, I've settled on wokes), Blue Anon (normie Dems who strongly believe everything on TV), old leftists (actually pretty cool), and the myriad other subgroups making up the broader left is a research project unto itself. I appreciate that lumping you all together is somewhat lazy and leads to some misunderstanding, but my writings are long enough already without a full paragraph of qualifications every time, a courtesy that wouldn't be returned in any case by the Blue Anon crowd here ranting about "conservatives" without ever having met one in real life.

DW_a_mom wrote:
But I can't deny there is a segment that is basically as closed minded and self-righteous as they like to accuse the evangelical right of being, and it isn't any more attractive on them than it is on the other side. A lot of us on the left are trying to tell friends in this group that their attitudes and behaviors are backfiring, but its a long, slow process.


Welcome to my world, lol. I don't know if I'll ever be able to help you see it, but part of the frustration of being on the right is that our nuts not only do a perfectly good job of getting attention on their own, but your nuts run the media that focuses almost exclusively on them, with occasionally hilarious results (Donald Trump running for president? Sounds great, he'll be super easy to beat!). Our nuts are angry and occasionally deranged, but they generally don't have much power, where as your nuts have managed to take over the better parts of the media, academia, the entertainment business, etc, and shove their crazy views down the rest of our throats in a way that I don't think you really appreciate.

Want to avoid right wing content? It's extremely easy, you generally have to deliberately tune into it, where as left wing content is in the air, we're told it's neutral but anyone with a little life experience knows it isn't. Want to be a college professor? Better polish up your thesis on how great DEI is, it's increasingly a requirement for hiring. Want a professional class job? Not if you have the wrong opinions and have ever written about them where someone from HR can find them, and be prepared to have identitarian propaganda shoveled down your throat without complaint the whole time.

DW_a_mom wrote:
I'm not perfect, either, obviously, sometimes believing some data so strongly I present less of a sales pitch than what comes across as a lecture. But I am relatively self-aware, I think. Still, policy wise, I feel slightly left ideas have a lot more data behind how they can benefit the majority of citizens than conservative ideas do. You have to spend money to make money, and that is just as true when investing in people as it is when investing in business.


How would you know? The left controls the media and academia, and has for many years, so how do you have any objective idea of what works and what doesn't? If the situation were reversed and we lived in a world of Fox news clones and all studies being performed by different flavors of the Heritage Foundation, would you trust any of it? Ever wonder why people like me who come to realize this stuff are so angry about it? It's bad enough that we're constantly lied to by an ideologically captured vertical messaging apparatus, but then the people still caught up in it condescend to us, with such smug certainty too.

DW_a_mom wrote:
Plus the whole abortion issue, where I strongly feel the law has no place and does more harm than good (despite being highly pro-life in other ways). I hate to think the direction of our country is going to be decided more by annoyance level than by facts, but we're far from the only country facing the same types of issues and attitudes.


Ugh, I'm nominally pro choice, but I really don't care all that much about it, my primary interest at this point is essentially hostage taking; leave my guns alone and I won't have to vote for the people who appoint these judges, but you won't so here we are. That's really where I'm at at this point, you vote for people who make me miserable, so I'm going to retaliate in kind and bet I can hold out longer, I've already been doing it most of my life after all.


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