F.B.I. Raids Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate

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goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 10:13 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
If it had been someone other than the president who had the power to declassify them, taking his work home with him, then it would be more surprising. As a former president he probably has bigger secrets stored in his head.

They were just on a fishing expedition for something to help with the failing Jan 6 committee investigations. A last desperate attempt.


Umm, except it was him And he didn’t declassify them.. he stole them and hid them in his home. Those are crimes. This isn’t a fishing expedition. He’s committed multiple crimes - in both instances. Plus many others pertaining to other unrelated things.


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DW_a_mom
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14 Aug 2022, 10:40 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
If it had been someone other than the president who had the power to declassify them, taking his work home with him, then it would be more surprising. As a former president he probably has bigger secrets stored in his head.

They were just on a fishing expedition for something to help with the failing Jan 6 committee investigations. A last desperate attempt.


Umm, except it was him And he didn’t declassify them.. he stole them and hid them in his home. Those are crimes. This isn’t a fishing expedition. He’s committed multiple crimes - in both instances. Plus many others pertaining to other unrelated things.


And, more significantly, the files had been subpoenaed months ago with the president claiming he turned over everything requested, when clearly he had not. So while the mishandling of classified materials case may be weak given the precedence established by the FBI for ranking officials with Hilary, there is now an obstruction case. As we all know, it isn’t usually the original act that gets elected officials, but the cover up.

A president does not own anything creates or received while in office. Simple fact. He should have returned everything when subpoenaed.


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auntblabby
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14 Aug 2022, 10:51 pm

to his supporters/enablers, he can do no wrong, he can get away with having a dead girl and a live boy in his bed all at once, and his supporters would just say, "so what of it? what about so and so?!"



goldfish21
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14 Aug 2022, 11:48 pm

auntblabby wrote:
to his supporters/enablers, he can do no wrong, he can get away with having a dead girl and a live boy in his bed all at once, and his supporters would just say, "so what of it? what about so and so?!"

THIS!


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Matrix Glitch
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15 Aug 2022, 2:04 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
If it had been someone other than the president who had the power to declassify them, taking his work home with him, then it would be more surprising. As a former president he probably has bigger secrets stored in his head.

They were just on a fishing expedition for something to help with the failing Jan 6 committee investigations. A last desperate attempt.


Umm, except it was him And he didn’t declassify them.. he stole them and hid them in his home. Those are crimes. This isn’t a fishing expedition. He’s committed multiple crimes - in both instances. Plus many others pertaining to other unrelated things.


The point is he could have declassified them. So he didn't need to steal them. So that being the case he might have skipped a formality.

And of course they were there to get anything and everything they could lay their hands on. That's how the warrant was written. There's no sense in pretending the search wasn't designed that way or wasn't for that purpose.



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15 Aug 2022, 3:13 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I think some here dramatically under estimate just how serious an offence it is to take the most top secret classified documents out of the special purpose built spy proof rooms they’re meant to be read in.. and then to continue to hold onto them after being subpoenaed for their return.. and also what the penalties for doing something like that can be. (Jail time.) Not unlike J6, but in a bit different way, this is Serious and trump’s in Serious trouble for it.


If you clutch those pearls much harder they're liable to shatter.


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DW_a_mom
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15 Aug 2022, 3:14 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
If it had been someone other than the president who had the power to declassify them, taking his work home with him, then it would be more surprising. As a former president he probably has bigger secrets stored in his head.

They were just on a fishing expedition for something to help with the failing Jan 6 committee investigations. A last desperate attempt.


Umm, except it was him And he didn’t declassify them.. he stole them and hid them in his home. Those are crimes. This isn’t a fishing expedition. He’s committed multiple crimes - in both instances. Plus many others pertaining to other unrelated things.


The point is he could have declassified them. So he didn't need to steal them. So that being the case he might have skipped a formality.

And of course they were there to get anything and everything they could lay their hands on. That's how the warrant was written. There's no sense in pretending the search wasn't designed that way or wasn't for that purpose.


There would have been no search warrant if an insider hadn’t voluntarily disclosed that Trump had not returned all the documents required in the May subpoena. That subpoena seemed to have been a simple records matter; from all I hear no one messes with the archivists. There was no fishing expedition in May, just an attempt to return documents to their rightful place. If there is a fishing expedition now, and I don’t know if there is (warrants are always broad), it could have been avoided entirely by not intentionally holding back against the subpoena in May. Trump never managed to get it into his head that he wasn’t entitled to keep anything at all, classified or not.


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Matrix Glitch
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15 Aug 2022, 3:25 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
There would have been no search warrant if an insider hadn’t voluntarily disclosed that Trump had not returned all the documents required in the May subpoena. That subpoena seemed to have been a simple records matter; from all I hear no one messes with the archivists. There was no fishing expedition in May, just an attempt to return documents to their rightful place. If there is a fishing expedition now, and I don’t know if there is (warrants are always broad), it could have been avoided entirely by not intentionally holding back against the subpoena in May. Trump never managed to get it into his head that he wasn’t entitled to keep anything at all, classified or not.

There seems to be a lot of back and forth about whether or not there was a mole involved. Also, they've been trying to convict him for years. I don't get why some people are so adamant that they wouldn't have used this as an opportunity to try finding anything that might be incriminating. To use every means at their disposal to find something to indict him over. Really this will be quite clear if new evidence is brought to light.



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15 Aug 2022, 4:37 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
There would have been no search warrant if an insider hadn’t voluntarily disclosed that Trump had not returned all the documents required in the May subpoena. That subpoena seemed to have been a simple records matter; from all I hear no one messes with the archivists. There was no fishing expedition in May, just an attempt to return documents to their rightful place. If there is a fishing expedition now, and I don’t know if there is (warrants are always broad), it could have been avoided entirely by not intentionally holding back against the subpoena in May. Trump never managed to get it into his head that he wasn’t entitled to keep anything at all, classified or not.

There seems to be a lot of back and forth about whether or not there was a mole involved. Also, they've been trying to convict him for years. I don't get why some people are so adamant that they wouldn't have used this as an opportunity to try finding anything that might be incriminating. To use every means at their disposal to find something to indict him over. Really this will be quite clear if new evidence is brought to light.


They've been trying to get something on him for years because he is really talented at pretending the rules don't apply to him. In politics every fishy smell gets investigated; we know that. No matter who is involved. To NOT do so would have been an unusual exception. So why then tempt fate by trying to conceal records when subpoenaed?

At least Hilary turned over her servers when questions got asked.

I'm not speculating on a mole. It could just as easily have been someone tangential to Trump's life who made the discovery because Trump was sloppy. I'm stating a fact about how the search warrant came to be. Someone who knew the records were there had to provide testimony. I don't really care who it was; that doesn't change the fact that he held onto information that had been subject to a subpoena months ago and that he had no right to hold onto.


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15 Aug 2022, 4:45 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
So why then tempt fate by trying to conceal records when subpoenaed?

At least Hilary turned over her servers when questions got asked.


As I recall she used BleachBit on her systems before turning over anything. Which would be like Trump turning over the smoking ashes after shredding and burning the documents.


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Matrix Glitch
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15 Aug 2022, 6:08 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
There would have been no search warrant if an insider hadn’t voluntarily disclosed that Trump had not returned all the documents required in the May subpoena. That subpoena seemed to have been a simple records matter; from all I hear no one messes with the archivists. There was no fishing expedition in May, just an attempt to return documents to their rightful place. If there is a fishing expedition now, and I don’t know if there is (warrants are always broad), it could have been avoided entirely by not intentionally holding back against the subpoena in May. Trump never managed to get it into his head that he wasn’t entitled to keep anything at all, classified or not.

There seems to be a lot of back and forth about whether or not there was a mole involved. Also, they've been trying to convict him for years. I don't get why some people are so adamant that they wouldn't have used this as an opportunity to try finding anything that might be incriminating. To use every means at their disposal to find something to indict him over. Really this will be quite clear if new evidence is brought to light.


They've been trying to get something on him for years because he is really talented at pretending the rules don't apply to him. In politics every fishy smell gets investigated; we know that. No matter who is involved. To NOT do so would have been an unusual exception. So why then tempt fate by trying to conceal records when subpoenaed?

At least Hilary turned over her servers when questions got asked.

I'm not speculating on a mole. It could just as easily have been someone tangential to Trump's life who made the discovery because Trump was sloppy. I'm stating a fact about how the search warrant came to be. Someone who knew the records were there had to provide testimony. I don't really care who it was; that doesn't change the fact that he held onto information that had been subject to a subpoena months ago and that he had no right to hold onto.

As far as I've heard they always knew Trump had documents at Maralago. I haven't heard any sort of story there was an unexplained disappearance of boxes of documents they finally tracked down to being there. Probably they were there while he was still president, since he talked about taking his work home with him. And after he wasn't president, they wanted the stuff back.

As for them going in to seize anything other than the documents, that will be made clear if they suddenly have brand new evidence found on a hard drive or whatever. And that's the problem. Anything new is going to be claimed to be found during the raid, and many will suspect it's manufactured evidence, just like the Steele Dossier.



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15 Aug 2022, 6:15 am

How are the Jan 6 hearings “failing”?



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15 Aug 2022, 6:28 am

All this alarm bell ringing would be easier to take seriously if the left hadn’t been gunning for him since the day he threw his hat in for POTUS in early 2016.
Reference the story of the boy who cried wolf.


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15 Aug 2022, 6:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
How are the Jan 6 hearings “failing”?

They don't seem to be getting anywhere.



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15 Aug 2022, 6:32 am

Raptor wrote:
All this alarm bell ringing would be easier to take seriously if the left hadn’t been gunning for him since the day he threw his hat in for POTUS in early 2016.
Reference the story of the boy who cried wolf.

That's exactly the problem. There's been endless "he's going down for sure now" scenarios going on for years.



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15 Aug 2022, 7:44 am

The January 6th Select Committee is conducting hearings out of sight of the public. And, partially, they're taking a vacation, too.

I would LOVE for there to be hearings in August----but I guess I'll have to wait till September.

As far as I'm concerned, the Committee has come up with considerable evidence that Trump and his gang did a lot of things wrong.