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Dox47
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02 Dec 2022, 6:04 am

rocksteady85 wrote:
I grew up in an area that isn't considered the south, and I have seen recruitment flyers for the klan. I have seen them in public. If you haven't, you aren't looking hard enough. Start paying attention to the people you see out and about. Make note of patches on jackets and logos on shirts and cars. If you don't live in an area where there are lots of political rallies or demonstrations, you're not going to see them in droves. But to suggest or imply that they don't exist, or they aren't growing in popularity, is like saying "I've never seen a tarantula in the wild so they must not exist".
The boogaloo boys show up anywhere they think they can stir trouble. They're not as big as the proud boys or the klan, but they exist and they're making trouble wherever they are.


I don't believe you.


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02 Dec 2022, 9:11 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Antifa is at most a few hundred vigilantes that went around attacking people they decided were fascists. Most of the rioting was done under the Black Lives Matter banner, not Antifa. Those riots were and still are all too often downplayed and excused. Was is the keyword here, for the most part those riots and yes in some instances insurrections ended over two years ago.

Real Neo Nazis/white nationalists while still, a very small part of the population has way too much influence in one of the two major political parties.

Persephone29 wrote:
I wish that the riots and damage caused by the violent portions of ANTIFA would have received the same charges as Jan 6th.

In some cases yes. The attacks on the government buildings such as police stations and incidents such as these
Rioters Set Fire to Federal Courthouse in Portland One Day after Fencing Removed
2 Federal Buildings in LA Damaged During Protest
were seditious insurrections and should have been looked at that way but most of the incidents were attacks on private businesses.

Unlike the storming of the Capital, the BLM riots involved thousands upon thousands of incidents. Even if they could have caught them all it would have been way too many people for the courts and jails to handle.


Many insurance companies require a police report in order to cover damages. I wonder how the business owners are doing? I wonder if they were able to recover and keep working?

I'm sorry, but I'm sure those business owners and employees were/are just as terrified, if not more, especially because they knew the police and their government weren't going to do anything to quell the riots. Unlike Jan 6th...


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Persephone29
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02 Dec 2022, 9:17 am

Dox47 wrote:
rocksteady85 wrote:
I grew up in an area that isn't considered the south, and I have seen recruitment flyers for the klan. I have seen them in public. If you haven't, you aren't looking hard enough. Start paying attention to the people you see out and about. Make note of patches on jackets and logos on shirts and cars. If you don't live in an area where there are lots of political rallies or demonstrations, you're not going to see them in droves. But to suggest or imply that they don't exist, or they aren't growing in popularity, is like saying "I've never seen a tarantula in the wild so they must not exist".
The boogaloo boys show up anywhere they think they can stir trouble. They're not as big as the proud boys or the klan, but they exist and they're making trouble wherever they are.


I don't believe you.


I like your style. But, you'll never convince them. They've been drinking the cool-aid and they see ANTIFA as their archangels to counter white nationalism (which is code for patriotism), anyone who stands for the flag can be grouped into a white nationalist. We're not completely there, but we've come a long way since Selma and Bloody Sunday. It behooves them to keep insinuating that there's still a possibility of this happening again, then ANTIFA can riot without repercussions.


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goldfish21
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02 Dec 2022, 11:44 am

Persephone29 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
rocksteady85 wrote:
I grew up in an area that isn't considered the south, and I have seen recruitment flyers for the klan. I have seen them in public. If you haven't, you aren't looking hard enough. Start paying attention to the people you see out and about. Make note of patches on jackets and logos on shirts and cars. If you don't live in an area where there are lots of political rallies or demonstrations, you're not going to see them in droves. But to suggest or imply that they don't exist, or they aren't growing in popularity, is like saying "I've never seen a tarantula in the wild so they must not exist".
The boogaloo boys show up anywhere they think they can stir trouble. They're not as big as the proud boys or the klan, but they exist and they're making trouble wherever they are.


I don't believe you.


I like your style. But, you'll never convince them. They've been drinking the cool-aid and they see ANTIFA as their archangels to counter white nationalism (which is code for patriotism), anyone who stands for the flag can be grouped into a white nationalist. We're not completely there, but we've come a long way since Selma and Bloody Sunday. It behooves them to keep insinuating that there's still a possibility of this happening again, then ANTIFA can riot without repercussions.


Umm, wut? Now you’re confusing white supremacy with patriotism.. 8O

Standing with & respecting a nation’s flag is all fine and dandy if the special song and corporate team colours make your insides tingle, but conflating white supremacy with patriotism ? :? W in the actual F?


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ASPartOfMe
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02 Dec 2022, 11:49 am

Persephone29 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Antifa is at most a few hundred vigilantes that went around attacking people they decided were fascists. Most of the rioting was done under the Black Lives Matter banner, not Antifa. Those riots were and still are all too often downplayed and excused. Was is the keyword here, for the most part those riots and yes in some instances insurrections ended over two years ago.

Real Neo Nazis/white nationalists while still, a very small part of the population has way too much influence in one of the two major political parties.

Persephone29 wrote:
I wish that the riots and damage caused by the violent portions of ANTIFA would have received the same charges as Jan 6th.

In some cases yes. The attacks on the government buildings such as police stations and incidents such as these
Rioters Set Fire to Federal Courthouse in Portland One Day after Fencing Removed
2 Federal Buildings in LA Damaged During Protest
were seditious insurrections and should have been looked at that way but most of the incidents were attacks on private businesses.

Unlike the storming of the Capital, the BLM riots involved thousands upon thousands of incidents. Even if they could have caught them all it would have been way too many people for the courts and jails to handle.


Many insurance companies require a police report in order to cover damages. I wonder how the business owners are doing? I wonder if they were able to recover and keep working?

I'm sorry, but I'm sure those business owners and employees were/are just as terrified, if not more, especially because they knew the police and their government weren't going to do anything to quell the riots. Unlike Jan 6th...

Plus these businesses were already hurting because 2020 were the height of lockdowns. Not surprisingly the media have been loath to report on how these businesses are doing. What can not be ignored is that in those areas that experienced riots crime and social decay have spiked. The same thing happened after the 60s riots. Those areas hit then became massively depressed any many still have not recovered.


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02 Dec 2022, 12:20 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
rocksteady85 wrote:
I grew up in an area that isn't considered the south, and I have seen recruitment flyers for the klan. I have seen them in public. If you haven't, you aren't looking hard enough. Start paying attention to the people you see out and about. Make note of patches on jackets and logos on shirts and cars. If you don't live in an area where there are lots of political rallies or demonstrations, you're not going to see them in droves. But to suggest or imply that they don't exist, or they aren't growing in popularity, is like saying "I've never seen a tarantula in the wild so they must not exist".
The boogaloo boys show up anywhere they think they can stir trouble. They're not as big as the proud boys or the klan, but they exist and they're making trouble wherever they are.


I don't believe you, and this reeks of an alt account.


I like your style. But, you'll never convince them. They've been drinking the cool-aid and they see ANTIFA as their archangels to counter white nationalism (which is code for patriotism), anyone who stands for the flag can be grouped into a white nationalist. We're not completely there, but we've come a long way since Selma and Bloody Sunday. It behooves them to keep insinuating that there's still a possibility of this happening again, then ANTIFA can riot without repercussions.


Umm, wut? Now you’re confusing white supremacy with patriotism.. 8O

Standing with & respecting a nation’s flag is all fine and dandy if the special song and corporate team colours make your insides tingle, but conflating white supremacy with patriotism ? :? W in the actual F?



How much time have you spent in an American classroom? In 4 months I'm the only one who stands for the pledge. Don't act like you know what's happening in my country, you don't.


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Persephone29
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02 Dec 2022, 12:21 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Antifa is at most a few hundred vigilantes that went around attacking people they decided were fascists. Most of the rioting was done under the Black Lives Matter banner, not Antifa. Those riots were and still are all too often downplayed and excused. Was is the keyword here, for the most part those riots and yes in some instances insurrections ended over two years ago.

Real Neo Nazis/white nationalists while still, a very small part of the population has way too much influence in one of the two major political parties.

Persephone29 wrote:
I wish that the riots and damage caused by the violent portions of ANTIFA would have received the same charges as Jan 6th.

In some cases yes. The attacks on the government buildings such as police stations and incidents such as these
Rioters Set Fire to Federal Courthouse in Portland One Day after Fencing Removed
2 Federal Buildings in LA Damaged During Protest
were seditious insurrections and should have been looked at that way but most of the incidents were attacks on private businesses.

Unlike the storming of the Capital, the BLM riots involved thousands upon thousands of incidents. Even if they could have caught them all it would have been way too many people for the courts and jails to handle.


Many insurance companies require a police report in order to cover damages. I wonder how the business owners are doing? I wonder if they were able to recover and keep working?

I'm sorry, but I'm sure those business owners and employees were/are just as terrified, if not more, especially because they knew the police and their government weren't going to do anything to quell the riots. Unlike Jan 6th...

Plus these businesses were already hurting because 2020 were the height of lockdowns. Not surprisingly the media have been loath to report on how these businesses are doing. What can not be ignored is that in those areas that experienced riots crime and social decay have spiked. The same thing happened after the 60s riots. Those areas hit then became massively depressed any many still have not recovered.


That's simply economics. What about trauma?


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goldfish21
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02 Dec 2022, 1:37 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
rocksteady85 wrote:
I grew up in an area that isn't considered the south, and I have seen recruitment flyers for the klan. I have seen them in public. If you haven't, you aren't looking hard enough. Start paying attention to the people you see out and about. Make note of patches on jackets and logos on shirts and cars. If you don't live in an area where there are lots of political rallies or demonstrations, you're not going to see them in droves. But to suggest or imply that they don't exist, or they aren't growing in popularity, is like saying "I've never seen a tarantula in the wild so they must not exist".
The boogaloo boys show up anywhere they think they can stir trouble. They're not as big as the proud boys or the klan, but they exist and they're making trouble wherever they are.


I don't believe you.


I like your style. But, you'll never convince them. They've been drinking the cool-aid and they see ANTIFA as their archangels to counter white nationalism (which is code for patriotism), anyone who stands for the flag can be grouped into a white nationalist. We're not completely there, but we've come a long way since Selma and Bloody Sunday. It behooves them to keep insinuating that there's still a possibility of this happening again, then ANTIFA can riot without repercussions.


Umm, wut? Now you’re confusing white supremacy with patriotism.. 8O

Standing with & respecting a nation’s flag is all fine and dandy if the special song and corporate team colours make your insides tingle, but conflating white supremacy with patriotism ? :? W in the actual F?



How much time have you spent in an American classroom? In 4 months I'm the only one who stands for the pledge. Don't act like you know what's happening in my country, you don't.

Maybe young Americans have shifted their ideals to no longer supporting the USA's state of constant war with other countries and would prefer an economy not based on the military industrial complex as well as better international relations. Plenty of valid reasons not to stand for what the USA stands for.


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02 Dec 2022, 6:27 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the nonexistent group, do you mean the Boogs? Because they actually do, though they're a bunch of oddball, impermanent groups, rather than a single organization like the Proud Boys, that might not always apply the name to themselves.


Yes, and no, they really don't exist, they never have existed, it's just a meme format that some guys thought would be funny to bring to life by wearing luau gear with tactical accessories in public, and the media went wild and pretended that it's an actual group. I was there when the joke started, it's all a bunch of inside jokes that only other gun people will get about stuff in the community, the whole civil war theme comes from the fact that there is always some guy on the gun forum muttering darkly about a coming civil war (Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo, hence the name), the Hawaiian shirts started because they're a favorite concealing outer garment for hiding a pistol (loose fit and the loud pattern breaks up outlines), the outlandishness (Drugs! Wendigos! Spirit Quests!) was to make fun of the old guys who were way too serious about everything, etc. It had been going on a while when some guys thought it would be funny to dress up like characters from the meme at political rallies, notably the Virginia Lobby Day in 2020, and practically overnight the feds and media ginned up a panic about this new "far right extremist group" that not only never existed but was literally a joke, all of the sites and Facebook groups surrounding it (it was huge on FB) were all meme groups for posting jokes, there was never any organization or central group of any sort, and the couple of people who did anything were just randos who glommed onto the aesthetic, it's all just a giant inside joke. We have quite a bit of law enforcement on my gun board (probably a lot more than is advertised, TBH), and what they say is that the feds essentially won't believe that it's all a joke and are terrified of the idea of this massive decentralized extremist network that is so secretive and tech savvy that they can't infiltrate it and discover their plans, while the in the know guys just laugh at their briefing material because they know the reason the feds can't crack it is that it doesn't exist.

This is what I keep trying to tell you about how much you're lied to and manipulated, by all rights I'm a member of this fake group (those memes were f*****g gold) as I was right there with the core group as the joke was created and evolved and I posted my share of memes, and I'm telling you there's no there there, just shitposting that successfully trolled the media and the security state.


Did you consider the possibility that extreme elements took it seriously, and ran with it? Consider the possibility that you had been in on creating a monster.


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02 Dec 2022, 6:34 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Why don't the media report on the majority of Antifa, rather than just the violent minority? Because if it bleeds it leads. Violent, destructive people get much more attention than those who promote progress through peace. A few years ago, my wife, our friend, and I attended a BLM demonstration in downtown Spokane. Not only was it not at all violent, but a speaker even invited an Anti-BLM protester up to the podium to talk. I suspect most BLM and Antifa demonstrations are like the one I just described, but those don't get media attention because there isn't any carnage and bloodshed.


Does it ever occur to you that the exact same system of distortion from the media might apply to other subjects where you think you know things but people with real life experience in them tell you you're wrong? Do you ever stop to think whether or not you actually know something, or have just been told it?



I never said the media invented stories. The media goes with the story that impacts the most people, which more often than not is violence and mayhem, not positive interaction between people. So no, I'm not going to reject everything the mainstream media says in favor of illegitimate news sources like Fox or OAN, or some internet troll.


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02 Dec 2022, 6:37 pm

Dox47 wrote:
rocksteady85 wrote:
I grew up in an area that isn't considered the south, and I have seen recruitment flyers for the klan. I have seen them in public. If you haven't, you aren't looking hard enough. Start paying attention to the people you see out and about. Make note of patches on jackets and logos on shirts and cars. If you don't live in an area where there are lots of political rallies or demonstrations, you're not going to see them in droves. But to suggest or imply that they don't exist, or they aren't growing in popularity, is like saying "I've never seen a tarantula in the wild so they must not exist".
The boogaloo boys show up anywhere they think they can stir trouble. They're not as big as the proud boys or the klan, but they exist and they're making trouble wherever they are.


I don't believe you.


Again, are you so sure you didn't unknowingly unleash a monster when you and your friends thought you could own the rest of us stiffs?


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02 Dec 2022, 8:15 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
How much time have you spent in an American classroom? In 4 months I'm the only one who stands for the pledge. Don't act like you know what's happening in my country, you don't.

Maybe young Americans have shifted their ideals to no longer supporting the USA's state of constant war with other countries and would prefer an economy not based on the military industrial complex as well as better international relations. Plenty of valid reasons not to stand for what the USA stands for.


It's not that. It does not even occur to them that there's anything to be grateful for. Is there plenty of poverty? Sure... But lately, at least once a week, we have a code red. Someone has either threatened to shoot someone or someone says they've spotted a gun. Still, we show up for these kids. Does our educational system leave a lot to be desired? It does. But, at least we have one and the staff truly cares. Standing for the flag isn't just about the government, it's about everything, including our fellow citizens and devotion to them.


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Last edited by Cornflake on 03 Dec 2022, 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.: Fixed broken quotes

Mona Pereth
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02 Dec 2022, 11:14 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for the nonexistent group, do you mean the Boogs? Because they actually do, though they're a bunch of oddball, impermanent groups, rather than a single organization like the Proud Boys, that might not always apply the name to themselves.


Yes, and no, they really don't exist, they never have existed, it's just a meme format that some guys thought would be funny to bring to life by wearing luau gear with tactical accessories in public, and the media went wild and pretended that it's an actual group. I was there when the joke started, it's all a bunch of inside jokes that only other gun people will get about stuff in the community, the whole civil war theme comes from the fact that there is always some guy on the gun forum muttering darkly about a coming civil war (Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo, hence the name), the Hawaiian shirts started because they're a favorite concealing outer garment for hiding a pistol (loose fit and the loud pattern breaks up outlines), the outlandishness (Drugs! Wendigos! Spirit Quests!) was to make fun of the old guys who were way too serious about everything, etc. It had been going on a while when some guys thought it would be funny to dress up like characters from the meme at political rallies, notably the Virginia Lobby Day in 2020, and practically overnight the feds and media ginned up a panic about this new "far right extremist group" that not only never existed but was literally a joke, all of the sites and Facebook groups surrounding it (it was huge on FB) were all meme groups for posting jokes, there was never any organization or central group of any sort, and the couple of people who did anything were just randos who glommed onto the aesthetic, it's all just a giant inside joke. We have quite a bit of law enforcement on my gun board (probably a lot more than is advertised, TBH), and what they say is that the feds essentially won't believe that it's all a joke and are terrified of the idea of this massive decentralized extremist network that is so secretive and tech savvy that they can't infiltrate it and discover their plans, while the in the know guys just laugh at their briefing material because they know the reason the feds can't crack it is that it doesn't exist.

This is what I keep trying to tell you about how much you're lied to and manipulated, by all rights I'm a member of this fake group (those memes were f*****g gold) as I was right there with the core group as the joke was created and evolved and I posted my share of memes, and I'm telling you there's no there there, just shitposting that successfully trolled the media and the security state.

Hmmm. Interesting.

If your account of its origins is correct, then indeed it would be unfair to characterize the "Boogaloo" scene as a whole as a terrorist network.

But are you sure that all this "trolling" isn't attracting plenty of genuine political extremists who then use (or, at least, try to use) the meme culture to attempt to radicalize otherwise ordinary "gun people"? As you yourself said, "there is always some guy on the gun forum muttering darkly about a coming civil war." How do you think the "Boogaloo" meme culture has affected these people's ability to recruit adherents?

Even if the "Boogaloo" scene has made extremist/terrorist recruitment easier, it would still be unfair to characterize the "Boogaloo" scene as a whole as a terrorist network, if your account of its origins is correct. But there are still plenty of reasons to believe that extremism has grown, and it still seems likely to me that the "Boogaloo" scene may have played at least a minor role in this.


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03 Dec 2022, 11:17 am

Persephone29 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
How much time have you spent in an American classroom? In 4 months I'm the only one who stands for the pledge. Don't act like you know what's happening in my country, you don't.

Maybe young Americans have shifted their ideals to no longer supporting the USA's state of constant war with other countries and would prefer an economy not based on the military industrial complex as well as better international relations. Plenty of valid reasons not to stand for what the USA stands for.


It's not that. It does not even occur to them that there's anything to be grateful for. Is there plenty of poverty? Sure... But lately, at least once a week, we have a code red. Someone has either threatened to shoot someone or someone says they've spotted a gun. Still, we show up for these kids. Does our educational system leave a lot to be desired? It does. But, at least we have one and the staff truly cares. Standing for the flag isn't just about the government, it's about everything, including our fellow citizens and devotion to them.


Respect is earned, not commanded. If young people today aren't showing the level of respect for the US government and it's history as a country as you feel they should, then perhaps it's worth analyzing what the country has done during their lifetimes for them to be so "meh," about standing for the special words/song/corporate colours.

Same goes for Canada and every other nation. If older generations want younger generations to be all "Rah rah, go team country!! !" then those in power need to operate the country in ways that earn the respect of younger people regularly.

Sure, there are some historical achievements worthy of respect 100%, like everyone should be respectful of veterans - especially the oldest ones that fought the hardest battles with the least resources in the most brutal conditions. November 11th I completely get, because that is about People and not just corporate greed. But a whole lot of every governments' actions since WW2 haven't exactly aligned with the values of younger generations, so it's hard to get excited about nationalist pep rallies. IMO.


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03 Dec 2022, 4:01 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
I like your style. But, you'll never convince them. They've been drinking the cool-aid and they see ANTIFA as their archangels to counter white nationalism (which is code for patriotism), anyone who stands for the flag can be grouped into a white nationalist. We're not completely there, but we've come a long way since Selma and Bloody Sunday. It behooves them to keep insinuating that there's still a possibility of this happening again, then ANTIFA can riot without repercussions.


Not wanting to be picky but isn't this thread about Stewart Rhodes? Did you read what his wife/son have said about him? his followers?



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03 Dec 2022, 4:08 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
If your account of its origins is correct, then indeed it would be unfair to characterize the "Boogaloo" scene as a whole as a terrorist network.


I strongly recommend you learn about this subject from reliable sources and not from Dox47. The FBI have already published data that suggest that
1. The far right are the biggest terrorist threat to the US
2. There has been a rise in far right terrorist activity since the election of Trump in 2016
3. People who commit terrorist acts are not lifelong members of one group. The evidence suggests that most members of far right groups move their membership/affiliation regularly and members of the boogaloo scene move into other right wing groups depending on where they live and the activity of other groups.
4, Based on point 3, there is a network and all groups have as part of their membership a require to terrorise. Initiation requires anything from vandalism of property belonging to PoC all the way to physical assault in order to prove loyalty.

Some here on WP would have you believe militia groups like oath keepers meet on Sunday afternoons and sing songs and play checkers. There are reasons for their existence. All of them train to use weapons and train to assault other people. They are not your friendly neighborhood men's co-fraternity club.

I have posted several times that there are groups who are identified as funding far right groups who in my view should also be arrested. I find it strange nobody finds it odd why the Chinese community are funding groups who in theory should be their moral enemy? I find it very very odd.



Last edited by cyberdad on 03 Dec 2022, 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.