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Jacojack19
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14 Jul 2021, 6:04 pm

First time poster here, im only 20 years old and im dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts almost everyday. During my childhood and middle-school i was bullied and ostracized due to my individualistic aspie way, with a mix of adhd impulsivity and recklessness (diagnosed with both). Moved to college in a different country recently away from my family and i feel the same thing that i been feeling since i was born: Why the f*ck are neurotypicals so disrespectful/rude towards me for literally no reason ? It seems that no matter what i do or where i go, they will always treat me with contempt and like im a complete idiot. This has turned me into an asocial and a hermit, to the point of developing an intense hate and resentment towards them. I just want to know your thoughts or advice on how can i have better relationships and stop feeling this way about them, since i really think it’s destroying my life.



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14 Jul 2021, 6:24 pm

↑ First post ... welcome aboard.  Since you asked for advice, would you please answer a few questions first?

• Have you been diagnosed with a depressive spectrum disorder, an autism spectrum disorder, or some other developmental, emotional, mental, or perceptive disorder?

• Are you blaming all neurotypical people for your above condition(s), for your state of mind, or for both?

• What is the single, most common denominator in all of your troubles?

Thank you.



Jacojack19
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14 Jul 2021, 7:15 pm

Thanks! Absolutely:

1- yes i was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder (mild-aspergers) and ADHD as well as depression around 2 years ago. Im not officially diagnosed with social anxiety but i know i struggle with it (to the point of not leaving my room for fear of judgment , not talking to people outside of family, etc)

2- is not so much blaming neurotypicals for being who they are, it’s more about their attitude towards a person that is different to them that really triggers me, i have spent a lot of time trying to improve my social skills only to be ostracized again and again just because is never enough, which is most likely the cause of my anxiety and depression.

3- Probably my resenment itself, caused by years and years of having to deal with the anxiety and depression that this curs… ejem, condition has brought to me.



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14 Jul 2021, 7:23 pm

Your experiences are common among people with ASDs.  Keep in mind that people with ASDs can be just as frustrated with NTs as they are with us.  You, at least, have recognized that they are reacting to something within you.  The drawback is that you believe their reactions are the cause of your own anxiety and depression, when it may actually be your outward expressions of anxiety and depression contributing to their reactions toward you.

You might benefit from counseling with an appropriately-trained and licensed mental-health practitioner to help you sort things out.

Again, welcome aboard.



Jacojack19
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14 Jul 2021, 7:45 pm

Interesting, i haven’t thought a lot about that tbh and you might be right. Thanks for the welcome and your time :)



cbd
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15 Jul 2021, 7:20 am

sorry to hear your current feelings .

alot of people are dipshits unless they have exper3ince with diverse range of people .

you are only 20 .. it could be linked to your age group specifically .



Jacojack19
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15 Jul 2021, 11:06 am

I agree. Love how they say we are the ones with no empathy, when they completely lose it as soon as they find someone different than them.



OutUponATreeBranch
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19 Nov 2021, 8:07 pm

So I had pretty strong resentments with people for similar reasons. When I met examples of aspies who had the same resentments, I just saw it wasn't worth it holding a grudge, it would only ever hold me back from developing relationships.



Jacojack19
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02 Jan 2022, 6:42 pm

That could be true, even though every time i try to act nice with them they don’t appreciate it and try to push me away or they seem to not like me for some reason. I don't want to interact with most people anymore because of this.



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02 Jan 2022, 6:54 pm

First welcome!

As someone whose been through a lot of the same through grade school, college, even adulthood (office Hunger Games and all that fun stuff), probably one of the most liberating things to learn was Darwinian game theory, how cluster B personality disorders dovetail with that, and reading social and economic philosophers like John Gray.

Most of my own depression came from believing that people somehow saw me inaccurately and that I was constantly running afoul of hidden rules. When I realized that the 'hidden rules' not only weren't honest when I tried assessing them from anything like first principles I realized it was a reality distorting game that a lot of people would play with someone who was naive enough to approach them honestly - that was a dark realization but it calibrated my expectations appropriately, which I think most of my depression actually was that - expectations out of like with reality. That's one of the harder lessons maybe - is that as an organizing principle I was trying to 'get right' and 'fix what was wrong with me' and problem was I'd just swallowed too much of the 1990's secular humanism I was raised on, along with my parent's Catholicism which seems to tell a very similar (if fallacious) story about people.

The only thing that's been a workable counterweight against 'clown world', where it feels like Las Vegas ate everything, is just test yourself, test your reality, and build as much beachhead as you can of the sort that other people can't manipulate or pull out from under you.


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Jacojack19
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02 Jan 2022, 7:34 pm

@techstepgenr8tion thanks for the welcome! I really needed this answer today and im glad you shared it. English is not my first language though, could you explain what does having a beachhead mean if you don’t mind. Nevertheless, i also identify with being “manipulated” into believing certain unrealistic social expectations that don’t go along with human nature. As i said i try to keep a distance with people nowadays because of past traumas, but on the other hand feel very lonely by doing it. You already stated your opinion about that in your reply, but i wonder what would you do in my case (where i been bullied into social anxiety and isolation for a very long time), would you still try to engage with people or keep being loyal to yourself by not doing it?



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02 Jan 2022, 7:49 pm

The expression 'beach head' is an analogy for something like the Normandy landing, where the allies had to pull up one corner of the land mass Hitler had under his control, you really can't turn your back on anything unless you've won some battles and secured some ground that you can go back to as a sort of home base. That's sort of what I mean - try to build that both inside yourself and outside in ways where sure, you're not overreaching and taking from people unjustly but at the same time making sure that same kind of overreach is difficult for other people to do to you.

I don't know if you're familiar with Eric Weinstein but he talks about people essentially trying to gather some amount of 'F U' money, to the point where they can be themselves and express what's actually on their minds as they see it, ie. live in their integrity, without fear that doing so will mean that they (or worse they and their family) lose the roof over their heads and can't figure out where their next meal is coming from. That's a big problem with where we're at right now - people use these things to coerce each other, it's a big part of what doxing is about (both right and left wing stylings of it) - ie. threatening people's meal tickets for political and social conformity, and so much of having people believe absurd things is a tool for domination and flatting opposition for people to set up tribes who all ascribe to whoever those ideologies are. With some of that I've been cautiously optimistic about some of the Web 3 'smart contracts' and oracles of the sort that Sergey Nazarov et al are working on with Chainlink - that might actually help stop power from simply going to whoever has the stickiest fingers.

Pretty much if you want to live in a 'sane' space of your own creation you have to be able to keep the world at a distance and chose your friends well.

With what you asked about friends - I have a few close friends, mostly from late high school and early college, one or two from grade school, but the idea is that I try not to spend too much time around people who are unreliable and the people who I know who are at least partially reliable I try to understand where they're reliable, where they're not, and navigate that accordingly.


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techstepgenr8tion
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02 Jan 2022, 7:52 pm

You may also find the video below helpful. It was a discussion BJ Campbell had with Rebel Wisdom. Really most of the conversation is about the way network effects mangle sense-making, in a salient enough way that describing these as almost hungry hive-minds or 'egregores', a bit like an advance on Richard Dawkin's idea of memetic warfare.

.


IMHO none of this is really 'new', we're just - possibly - getting self-aware enough as a society to actually see it and call it for what it is - ie. entropy of worldviews causing breakdown of civilization, and finding out that a lot of people are reliably irrational (no surprise - especially when they're paid to be irrational or at least heavily partisan in some particular direction).


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Jacojack19
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02 Jan 2022, 8:53 pm

That some interesting stuff you shared right there. Highly recommend the link for people that are interested in understanding social dynamics and how they affect civilization as a whole. Im too young/inexperienced/uncultured for some of the stuff mentioned but i perfectly understand the concept behind it. Thanks for your contribution to this thread.



techstepgenr8tion
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02 Jan 2022, 9:02 pm

Jacojack19 wrote:
That some interesting stuff you shared right there. Highly recommend the link for people that are interested in understanding social dynamics and how they affect civilization as a whole. Im too young/inexperienced/uncultured for some of the stuff mentioned but i perfectly understand the concept behind it. Thanks for your contribution to this thread.


:heart:

The main thrust - keep your sanity to whatever degree you can (both the rigid and the flexible forms of it) and know that you're not just fighting your own entropy but everyone else's to keep it.


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13 Jan 2022, 9:51 am

I think you’re an okay person, JacoJack.

You’ve already taken the first step in that you haven’t adopted your present resentments as a permanent mindset.

You are amenable to input outside of yourself.