Reason to not kill myself?

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badRobot
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16 Sep 2021, 1:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Right. It can manifest in that way.

But I'm suspecting that the very act of debating is something which is somewhat pleasurable to the person, and hence dilutes the depression at least a little bit. It might act as sort of a diversion.

If I'm wrong, do tell me. As long as communication is done on civil terms, I have no problem with constructive criticism.


It provides a quick fix of instant gratification, especially due to aligning perceived reality and emotions, but at the same time reenforces negative misbeliefs, makes person less likely to put any effort into their wellbeing, ultimately it makes depression worse.



kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 1:18 pm

I feel like feeling instant gratification and pleasure is the first step towards rising out of depression.

Feeling pleasure in something is much better than feeling pleasure in nothing.



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16 Sep 2021, 1:24 pm

Anything that provides a distraction is helpful in the short term. And crushing my enemies appeals to my sense of vanity and narcissism. Except when I'm arguing to rationalize my own depressed feelings, like Robot pointed out.



badRobot
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16 Sep 2021, 1:25 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like feeling instant gratification and pleasure is the first step towards rising out of depression.

Feeling pleasure in something is much better than feeling pleasure in nothing.


No, that's how people start downward spiral, become drug addicts, internet trolls, militant incels, develop "treatment resistant severe depression", adopt victim mentality, etc. Like I said in the other thread, going for a pleasure, especially this kind of pleasure trying to overcome depression is like buying more useless stuff to overcome poverty.



Jakki
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16 Sep 2021, 5:26 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Right. It can manifest in that way.

But I'm suspecting that the very act of debating is something which is somewhat pleasurable to the person, and hence dilutes the depression at least a little bit. It might act as sort of a diversion.

If I'm wrong, do tell me. As long as communication is done on civil terms, I have no problem with constructive criticism.


a constructive distraction , i think can help a person if not too far into the depths of depression
.


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16 Sep 2021, 10:56 pm

dorkseid wrote:
RightGalaxy wrote:
Adopt one or more pets that nobody wants and care for them before they are euthanized for no good reason. This world is not just for people. What about the other living things? They need love too. They give it back unconditionally. Rescue yourself by rescuing homeless critters. Go to a shelter and look into their eyes - they cry for rescue. They need you. We are all connected --- beast, man, bird, fish, etc... Give them a second chance. Give yourself a chance to feel unconditional love. Accept that love. Be a hero. Save a life and never take a life. Remember, this world is not just for people.
"May all that have life be delivered from suffering." (Buddhist quote)


I can't afford a pet, and my landlord won't allow it.


This won't help the affordability issue but it might the landlord side of things.
Quote:
Actually, the no pets rule can possibly overridden in the case of service dogs for persons with actual disabilities.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=400102&p=8862928#p8862615


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And one more thing,


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cornerpiece
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17 Sep 2021, 12:53 am

I have this fault, I stay objective, or mostly objective, at all times, including when angry or depressed. And I don't believe in anything that isn't a fact or at least a logical conclusion.

I do agree that suffering outweighs happy moments for most living beings. And for those with a long history of previous suffering, the most probable continuation is more suffering. I still feel like pointing out, that probability of nicer days does exist, and that a statement "I haven't had a single nice day in 12 years" can't be correct...

Another thing I'd like to point out - there is someone to blame here after all. Well, someTHING. Nature, or evolution. It was nature that created you the way you are. You are its experiment, just like any other living being. Nature has found out that diversity works - it's good for survival of species. Sometimes diverse individuals are extremely useful. However, often they are not. But it is still useful to create a bunch of weirdos, just so that maybe one day one of them proves to be great, maybe due to changes in circumstances, maybe due to some unexpected talent. You may ask, but how about the rest of us? Those that do not happen to be useful. Well, nature has something for us too: it's called depression and suicide. Individuals who find that they are a failed experiment, are supposed to get depressed and sit at home, thus removing themselves from the society. To the degree that they may remove themselves completely. Well, of course, having responsibities or close people still makes them hold on because those are still useful. But someone completely useless has it the hardest, finding no single reason to hold on to life. And nature says to them: "Ah dammit, you didn't work out. Here have a dose of these chemicals into your brain that will make you kill yourself. Bye!" And the nature is not sorry because it has no feelings, it simply does what works, and it experiments trying to find a way that works better, and we are the casualties.

Knowing this, I feel like spitting nature in the face for what it has done to us. And I know it doesn't care, but I feel like saying to it: "F%$k you nature. I am tired of obeying you and executing your plans. This is my life now, and I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna be a damn burden on everybody - on all your "successful experiments".

I find this attitude helps a little in my daily life. Just a little. I did consider a suicide, but there is a person that would be very upset if I did it, so my plan included waiting until that person dies first and I'm still waiting. Meanwhile, Im trying to make life more bearable, sometimes I'm even succeeding. I can always do it (suicide) - what's the rush - said someone here. So yeah.



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17 Sep 2021, 1:42 am

cornerpiece wrote:
I have this fault, I stay objective, or mostly objective, at all times, including when angry or depressed. And I don't believe in anything that isn't a fact or at least a logical conclusion.

I do agree that suffering outweighs happy moments for most living beings. And for those with a long history of previous suffering, the most probable continuation is more suffering. I still feel like pointing out, that probability of nicer days does exist, and that a statement "I haven't had a single nice day in 12 years" can't be correct...

Another thing I'd like to point out - there is someone to blame here after all. Well, someTHING. Nature, or evolution. It was nature that created you the way you are. You are its experiment, just like any other living being. Nature has found out that diversity works - it's good for survival of species. Sometimes diverse individuals are extremely useful. However, often they are not. But it is still useful to create a bunch of weirdos, just so that maybe one day one of them proves to be great, maybe due to changes in circumstances, maybe due to some unexpected talent. You may ask, but how about the rest of us? Those that do not happen to be useful. Well, nature has something for us too: it's called depression and suicide. Individuals who find that they are a failed experiment, are supposed to get depressed and sit at home, thus removing themselves from the society. To the degree that they may remove themselves completely. Well, of course, having responsibities or close people still makes them hold on because those are still useful. But someone completely useless has it the hardest, finding no single reason to hold on to life. And nature says to them: "Ah dammit, you didn't work out. Here have a dose of these chemicals into your brain that will make you kill yourself. Bye!" And the nature is not sorry because it has no feelings, it simply does what works, and it experiments trying to find a way that works better, and we are the casualties.

Knowing this, I feel like spitting nature in the face for what it has done to us. And I know it doesn't care, but I feel like saying to it: "F%$k you nature. I am tired of obeying you and executing your plans. This is my life now, and I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna be a damn burden on everybody - on all your "successful experiments".

I find this attitude helps a little in my daily life. Just a little. I did consider a suicide, but there is a person that would be very upset if I did it, so my plan included waiting until that person dies first and I'm still waiting. Meanwhile, Im trying to make life more bearable, sometimes I'm even succeeding. I can always do it (suicide) - what's the rush - said someone here. So yeah.


It's not really nature's fault that we lost connection with everything our reward system was evolved to reward. Our prefrontal cortex, what makes us human is basically a thin layer on top of animal brain. This part of brain is like a very stupid, easily manipulated, arrogant person with overinflated self-importance. This person doesn't want to have anything to do with it's animal nature and when it experiences positive or negative emotions that are result of animal part of brain it just takes credit for it. What really makes a human being happy are pretty much the same primitive things that would make a puppy happy - sunlight, fresh air, nature, running around, eating food that is yummy and good for you. But we refuse to acknowledge this simple truth and put blame on society, career, self-expression, identity, etc. We lie to ourselves that we feel miserable for whatever reason, but not for the simple reason that we don't get enough sunlight, physical activity and stuff.



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17 Sep 2021, 2:46 am

Events or lack thereof, sadness, depression,loss of interest in life , people not caring enough to interact with you . Situations and things that cause your perceptions to be dark , Everyday you are still alive , you give these things a kick in the face for each and everyday you go on in life.
This atitude might support you till things have the appearance of turning around for you.
(just a thought) :ninja:


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Pepe
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17 Sep 2021, 2:54 am

Jakki wrote:
Events or lack thereof, sadness, depression,loss of interest in life , people not caring enough to interact with you . Situations and things that cause your perceptions to be dark , Everyday you are still alive , you give these things a kick in the face for each and everyday you go on in life.
This atitude might support you till things have the appearance of turning around for you.
(just a thought) :ninja:


Agreed.
Give life the finger and soldier on. :rambo:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,


"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet." Humour is not meant to be taken seriously, yet many pervert its intent.
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


I luv KFC!


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18 Sep 2021, 9:47 am

Pepe wrote:
dorkseid wrote:
RightGalaxy wrote:
Adopt one or more pets that nobody wants and care for them before they are euthanized for no good reason. This world is not just for people. What about the other living things? They need love too. They give it back unconditionally. Rescue yourself by rescuing homeless critters. Go to a shelter and look into their eyes - they cry for rescue. They need you. We are all connected --- beast, man, bird, fish, etc... Give them a second chance. Give yourself a chance to feel unconditional love. Accept that love. Be a hero. Save a life and never take a life. Remember, this world is not just for people.
"May all that have life be delivered from suffering." (Buddhist quote)


I can't afford a pet, and my landlord won't allow it.


This won't help the affordability issue but it might the landlord side of things.
Quote:
Actually, the no pets rule can possibly overridden in the case of service dogs for persons with actual disabilities.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=400102&p=8862928#p8862615


my roommate already has a dog, and she hates me.



Fenn
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18 Sep 2021, 12:54 pm

Dorkseid,
This thread is beginning to remind me of the Monty Python argument sketch.



Here is a good reason not to kill your self: you will lose the joy of contradicting every good reason anyone gives here on this WP thread.

All kidding aside and not in any wanting to minimize any emotional or physical pain you are going through - I sincerely want to tell you I am sorry you are having pain - but there may be a good side you don't want to look at because you are afraid if you do you will invite more pain.

I can talk from my own experience - when I am down - I feel like I have always been down, I will always be down, and there is nothing but being down. I have huge trouble trusting people - but I also have trouble trusting myself.

When I am not down things don't look this way to me. I am able to see there are good things and bad things about my life - and I am not as likely to get into my "all or nothing" modes of thinking. I have just been reading a book about attachment and the inner self. It talks about sometimes if the people who take care of you as a kid are not always reliable, if they over-parent and are controlling or abusive, or if they under-parent and are abandoning - or emotionally unavailable, someone like me might "split" them into two people. My mom had postpartum depression after I was born. She was "over-treated" with medication which took her away from me and away from everyone - eventually her family of origin had to take her off of this med. My dad had cyclic depression and would sometime rage, sometimes be unable to get out of bed. Inside of me instead of feeling that things were going to be OK, thinking I would be OK, I formed two parts - one representing the "bad parent" and one part the part of me which was "angry with the bad parent". And another two parts - one which was the "good parent" and the part of me which "loved the good parent". It is like having two ids and two egos. Or at least that is the theory. ADHD and ASD (etc, etc, etc) are real also - and I have to try to internalize them - they are a part of me and they are also an enemy or source of pain. So this book - the theory - is that the down times is one of these parts coming to the surface and becoming "me" - it might be the rage part, or the bad parent part, or the love part or the good parent part - and I behave accordingly - and I project the opposite on someone else in my life.

The goal in this case, the book suggests, is try to integrate the parts into a whole healthy self. DBT or Psychodynamic is supposed to work best for this. Meanwhile - the roller coaster.

To avoid the "all or nothing" type of thinking it sometimes helps me to make a list of "assets and liabilities" or "grattitudes and resentments". This is how I avoid getting into the Argument Sketch with myself - and with other people.

Sometimes waiting and mindfulness allow me to let the "down" wave pass. Sometimes all it takes is a hot cup of tea - but other times it may take weeks - and it may take work.

I hope my sharing this helps.

Maybe something that works for me might work for you too.

I believe there is good in you.


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18 Sep 2021, 4:46 pm

Fenn wrote:
Dorkseid,
This thread is beginning to remind me of the Monty Python argument sketch.



Here is a good reason not to kill your self: you will lose the joy of contradicting every good reason anyone gives here on this WP thread.

All kidding aside and not in any wanting to minimize any emotional or physical pain you are going through - I sincerely want to tell you I am sorry you are having pain - but there may be a good side you don't want to look at because you are afraid if you do you will invite more pain.

I can talk from my own experience - when I am down - I feel like I have always been down, I will always be down, and there is nothing but being down. I have huge trouble trusting people - but I also have trouble trusting myself.

When I am not down things don't look this way to me. I am able to see there are good things and bad things about my life - and I am not as likely to get into my "all or nothing" modes of thinking. I have just been reading a book about attachment and the inner self. It talks about sometimes if the people who take care of you as a kid are not always reliable, if they over-parent and are controlling or abusive, or if they under-parent and are abandoning - or emotionally unavailable, someone like me might "split" them into two people. My mom had postpartum depression after I was born. She was "over-treated" with medication which took her away from me and away from everyone - eventually her family of origin had to take her off of this med. My dad had cyclic depression and would sometime rage, sometimes be unable to get out of bed. Inside of me instead of feeling that things were going to be OK, thinking I would be OK, I formed two parts - one representing the "bad parent" and one part the part of me which was "angry with the bad parent". And another two parts - one which was the "good parent" and the part of me which "loved the good parent". It is like having two ids and two egos. Or at least that is the theory. ADHD and ASD (etc, etc, etc) are real also - and I have to try to internalize them - they are a part of me and they are also an enemy or source of pain. So this book - the theory - is that the down times is one of these parts coming to the surface and becoming "me" - it might be the rage part, or the bad parent part, or the love part or the good parent part - and I behave accordingly - and I project the opposite on someone else in my life.

The goal in this case, the book suggests, is try to integrate the parts into a whole healthy self. DBT or Psychodynamic is supposed to work best for this. Meanwhile - the roller coaster.

To avoid the "all or nothing" type of thinking it sometimes helps me to make a list of "assets and liabilities" or "grattitudes and resentments". This is how I avoid getting into the Argument Sketch with myself - and with other people.

Sometimes waiting and mindfulness allow me to let the "down" wave pass. Sometimes all it takes is a hot cup of tea - but other times it may take weeks - and it may take work.

I hope my sharing this helps.

Maybe something that works for me might work for you too.

I believe there is good in you.


Thank you.

But my life has objectively never experienced any kind of "up turn".

I have never experienced love or intimacy with a woman. The only relationship I've ever was in was with an narcissist who abused me psychologically. The relationship was extremely unsatisfying, but I was afraid if I left no other woman would ever want me again. I never felt any attraction to my ex and was only in the relationship out of desperation. That relationship ended more than a decade ago, and no other woman has wanted to date or have sex with me since then. There were no "up periods" punctuated by "down periods". I had simply always been undesirable, unwanted, and unlovable. This is not my subjective perception, but an objective fact.



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18 Sep 2021, 5:02 pm

Fenn wrote:
So this book - the theory - is that the down times is one of these parts coming to the surface and becoming "me" - it might be the rage part, or the bad parent part, or the love part or the good parent part - and I behave accordingly - and I project the opposite on someone else in my life.

The goal in this case, the book suggests, is try to integrate the parts into a whole healthy self. DBT or Psychodynamic is supposed to work best for this. Meanwhile - the roller coaster.


I don't get why educated people still take these pseudoscientific theories seriously.



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18 Sep 2021, 5:15 pm

dorkseid wrote:
I have never experienced love or intimacy with a woman. The only relationship I've ever was in was with an narcissist who abused me psychologically. The relationship was extremely unsatisfying, but I was afraid if I left no other woman would ever want me again. I never felt any attraction to my ex and was only in the relationship out of desperation. That relationship ended more than a decade ago, and no other woman has wanted to date or have sex with me since then. There were no "up periods" punctuated by "down periods". I had simply always been undesirable, unwanted, and unlovable. This is not my subjective perception, but an objective fact.

Love doesn't make you happy. You can love and be loved only when you are happy. "Up period" is not something that happens to you, this is something you create yourself.



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18 Sep 2021, 5:16 pm

If your only experience with relationships have been abusive ones. Then what would you have to guage other better relationships by...... Sometimes it seems to take alotta of life experience . In order to guage what is good for ones self . :nerdy:


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