Not being able to make friends is frightening me

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Joe90
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03 Oct 2021, 1:23 pm

smudge wrote:
Personally, I think they were harsh to you in the other thread. People with AS tend to appear "off" to other people, or IOW, uninterested. That's easily overcomeable if you show interest in the other people. People mirror each other, meaning if you appear interested and feel comfortable around them, they reflect exactly that and feel comfortable around you. Forget the differences between you. If I were you I would try and make interesting conversation with these people, ask them about themselves. People love to talk about their children, and complain about their work. If that doesn't interest you, and say you love animals or pets, start talking about that and ask them if they have any pets, etc.


There are a lot of Asperger's symptoms that I don't have, and I am capable of naturally picking up body language and reading between the lines. Also it seems that other Aspies that I know of all seem to have friends, so if they can do it then surely I can. I don't mask that much, only when I need to. Otherwise, most of the social things I do don't require much mental effort. I notice social cues all the time, and if I didn't come on here so much I probably wouldn't think about how I notice social cues, but because I'm always reminded of it and all that when coming on WP (not me personally but people do talk about that sort of thing here more than NTs do obviously) I tend to remember when I last correctly noticed somebody's non-verbal language. The only masking I do is not reacting when someone says something that I don't like but otherwise isn't supposed to be offensive, and not impulsively saying silly things. These silly things pop into my head and although I know that I don't need to say it I still get an impulsive urge to say it, but I'm trying hard not to give in to these impulses to prevent me from sounding ridiculous. But if I didn't give in to any of my social impulses at all, I feel I would be a very dull, boring person and wouldn't be me.

You are right, I think what my problem is is that I can seem to be off sometimes, maybe because I feel slightly intimidated by some people, but I still love social interaction. When having a conversation with somebody, I feel very happy inside. But I am scared of social rejection because it has happened before at a voluntary job I used to do, when trying to be included in the group they kind of kicked me out, like adult version of ''you can't play with us!'' But then I hate being left out of all the gossip and what's going on in the workplace. I care about it. Life is boring when you don't know anything and you're just existing. I desire to be involved. NTs of all people should understand that because they have the same social desires.
But I think I do need to work on the question thing. I'm not the sort to ask people many questions about themselves unless I'm really comfortable with them. I have a poor memory when it comes to remembering people's life statuses, for example if someone texted me and said they have covid and I saw them again 3 weeks later I'll forget that they had covid and so I'd forget to ask how they're feeling. This makes me look disinterested, but I am not. I have ADHD so I don't always remember these things. This is why I want to get diagnosed. I think people knowing I have ADHD will be more useful to me socially than if people knew I had a form of autism, because autism is more misunderstood and is either viewed as stupid or heartless. ADHD describes me a lot better.


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03 Oct 2021, 1:36 pm

I wonder to what extent your struggles in this regard are more the result of anxiety and carried trauma from past experiences, rather than ASD.

From things you've said over the years it sounds as though you've faced quite a lot of mistreatment related to having a diagnosis and a lot of exclusion and being kept outside of social circles. It seems pretty clear that some of that has been internalized and influences how you feel about autism, but I wonder if it also influences your expectations for whether or not you'll be accepted.

That might cause it both to be very exciting while it's ongoing and you're succeeding but also stressful as you worry about when the rejection is going to occur.

I know for me, I tend to enjoy superficial banter, verbal sparring, etc. Any of those low-investment types of social interaction because they're exciting and just enough of a challenge to be a fun game but the effort eventually burns me out and fear of rejection contributes to me often not being able to take advantage of starting to get to know someone like that so I rarely turn those potential friends into deeper friends.

I don't know how similar you are in those regards, but I do believe that issues beyond ASD contribute to social issues that many folks with ASD face and I think you've described that experience well enough over the years to say it's an identifiable pattern.


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03 Oct 2021, 1:44 pm

Funny - I guess it is because I really don't do "web 2.0" or "social media" much. I had never seen the term "incel" before.
Quick internet search fixed that: short for "involuntary celibate" - identified as a "Hate Group" by (some group I have never heard of) apparently heterosexual males who cannot get a girl who are unhappy about it and blame women and non-incel guys. Um ok - "is that a thing"?. One thing happening on the internet today is a lot of separatism, faction-ism and polarization. I, frankly try to avoid it. What if . . . we are all human. We have highs and lows, we have happiness and hurts. I am a Catholic and a Christian. For some people that means I am in a "in-croud" and others are in a "out-croud". For other people that means I am not in their "in-croud" and I am in the "out-croud". That whole "in-croud" and "out-croud" thing itself - for me - is the real problem. As a Christian I am a follower of Christ and he said "may they be one". As a Christian I believe we are all created created by God and so we are God's children. Consequentially Smudge, and Jo90 and Ezbzbfcg2 and Edna3362 (and so on and so on) are all my brother's and sisters. We all have value - and that value is as Children of God. We are all the same AND we are all different. And it gets hard at times trying to make sense of it.

My daughter has a good friend who has a peanut allergy. Because of this there are times she might have her throat close up and could die. She has an Epipen and if she (even though she is always careful about what she eats) gets exposed to peanuts or peanut oil in any way and feels her throat closing up she has to jab the epipen into her leg. It has happened a few times. This saves here life but usually messes up her metabolism for the next few days and she might have to miss a day of school (and so on) because of the effects of the epipen.

Now: is this fair? I don't have a peanut allergy and she does. I never have had to and never will have to jab my leg with an epipen. Are we the same or different? Who is to blame? Who should she get angry about because of this inequality? Is it my fault? Is it her fault? Should she blame her parents? Does all of this being careful about what she can eat feel embarrassing? Is it frustrating? Is it time consuming? Is society to blame for not supporting peanut allergist in more ways than they do? Should they, the peanut allergists form an "in-croud", form a lobbying group so address the problems and make the "out-croud" pay for this and change. Aren't people criminally insensitive about her problems? Aren't they really the cause?

But on the other hand - she is an NT and I am not. I can ask the same questions in the other direction.

Frankly sometimes it really does get to me. At other times I am able to say "everybody has something - why not me?".
I sometimes ask "why me?" and sometimes ask "well, why not me?".

I have been talking to my shrink about "PTSD" and "CPTSD". Basically sometimes people have been through a tramatic experience in the past and in some ways it is still with them. One of the symptoms is "hyper-vigilance" - these people are always on high alert and always ready to have a hyper-reaction to something that reminds them of the traumatic experience. It is also true that people on the spectrum experience "hyper-sensitivities" and "hypo-sensitivities". In some cases they over-react to stimulation from the 5 senses. In some cases they under-react. Fire alarms, food textures, things toughing their skin. There might be a hyper- or hypo-reaction. Question: isn't this likely to sometimes look like "hyper-vigilance" in PTSD? Even without the trauma? Further could this make "normal" experiences - experiences that for some people are no big deal - more like a traumatic experience?

Sometimes I am ok not having a large group of "friends" - sometimes I like it and avoid the kind of intimacy that leads to vulnerability which can lead to emotional pain. Other times I feel terribly alone. Sometimes I blame myself. Sometimes I blame others. Sometimes I feel helpless - and think there is no-one to blame but I really want the pain to go away. Sometimes I feel like those "out-crowd" people must be laughing at me. People really did laugh at me when I was a young student. Sometimes I feel like no-one not even my wife really understands me. (Isn't that a cliche - like a drunk guy in a bar looking for a one night stand will tell some woman "my wife doesn't understand me").

Sometimes I think we are all in this boat together - I try to avoid comparing my documentary to somebody else's highlight reel. Elon may be the richest man in the world (except for when Jeff passes him, which is often) but is he really happy? Does he feel alone sometimes? Can his money buy him happiness? Why can't he be civil when Jeff's space company outdoes him sometimes? Perhaps he is worth "one human being" in the end. Perhaps so am I. And so is my daughter's friend with the allergy and the people at work who make fun of Joe90 - or make subtle put-downs which really hurt and hurt deeply, and so is Joe90. Perhaps we are all worth "one child of God".


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03 Oct 2021, 2:20 pm

Joe90 wrote:
There are a lot of Asperger's symptoms that I don't have, and I am capable of naturally picking up body language and reading between the lines. Also it seems that other Aspies that I know of all seem to have friends, so if they can do it then surely I can. I don't mask that much, only when I need to. Otherwise, most of the social things I do don't require much mental effort. I notice social cues all the time, and if I didn't come on here so much I probably wouldn't think about how I notice social cues, but because I'm always reminded of it and all that when coming on WP (not me personally but people do talk about that sort of thing here more than NTs do obviously) I tend to remember when I last correctly noticed somebody's non-verbal language. The only masking I do is not reacting when someone says something that I don't like but otherwise isn't supposed to be offensive, and not impulsively saying silly things. These silly things pop into my head and although I know that I don't need to say it I still get an impulsive urge to say it, but I'm trying hard not to give in to these impulses to prevent me from sounding ridiculous. But if I didn't give in to any of my social impulses at all, I feel I would be a very dull, boring person and wouldn't be me.


So this is really relevant - the specific comment that struck me in your original post was something about your being "too mature". It seems to me that you know how to "read" or "hear" social language, and in a way that you are conscious of, but are not as good at "writing" or "speaking" social language or non-verbal language. I could be wrong (I have been wrong before and will be wrong again). Being "mature" is not a bad thing, but for some people it can be off-putting.
I also notice that you say you are "able" to "notice" social cues. For me that is the real thing: I can notice social cues, but NTs don't work that way. It is not that they are ignorant of social clues but they tend to do it unconsciously and I tend to do it consciously. In computers, signal processing (such as processing audio or music signals) there is two ways to do it: you can have special hardware which can process audio signals as analog (the sound-levels or voltage-levels can have any value at all with an unlimited number of values below the highest and lowest possible levels) or you can encode the signals into digital data and use digital mathematics to process the signals (digital signals can have only two values: 100% (called 1) and 0% (called 0) and these 1's and 0's are arranges in patterns representing binary numbers - if the highs and lows come very fast you have a fast bit-rate and this is nearly as good as an analog signal). The results are similar but there is one big difference. Digital processing takes a lot of CPU processing power - an analog hardware processor takes none at all.
For me - social language or non-verbal language takes a lot of mental CPU processing - I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT. And this can be exhausting. For NTs I think in many cases they are not thinking about it at all - it just happens - it is like the analog hardware co-processor. To quote Elon "I am pretty good at running human in emulation mode". I can make the results look similar, but it takes a lot of CPU. It takes a lot of thinking. It takes a lot of mental energy. It takes a lot of spoons.

To go back to the Shogun analogy - it still is a foreign language to me and it still feels foreign. I long for someone who can just speak my native language. Even here on WP - I am using foreign words most of the time. In my head I think in pictures a lot - or memories of song lyrics - lots of crazy stuff that doesn't translate well into words. I think in several streams at once. I talk to myself - and it comes out completely different when I try to write it in text.

But - I can still learn some of the language I need to talk to others - the social language - the cultural idioms.
But people still know I am different.
And sometimes I feel different and I wish I didn't.


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03 Oct 2021, 2:32 pm

Joe90 wrote:
smudge wrote:
Personally, I think they were harsh to you in the other thread. People with AS tend to appear "off" to other people, or IOW, uninterested. That's easily overcomeable if you show interest in the other people. People mirror each other, meaning if you appear interested and feel comfortable around them, they reflect exactly that and feel comfortable around you. Forget the differences between you. If I were you I would try and make interesting conversation with these people, ask them about themselves. People love to talk about their children, and complain about their work. If that doesn't interest you, and say you love animals or pets, start talking about that and ask them if they have any pets, etc.


There are a lot of Asperger's symptoms that I don't have, and I am capable of naturally picking up body language and reading between the lines. Also it seems that other Aspies that I know of all seem to have friends, so if they can do it then surely I can. I don't mask that much, only when I need to. Otherwise, most of the social things I do don't require much mental effort. I notice social cues all the time, and if I didn't come on here so much I probably wouldn't think about how I notice social cues, but because I'm always reminded of it and all that when coming on WP (not me personally but people do talk about that sort of thing here more than NTs do obviously) I tend to remember when I last correctly noticed somebody's non-verbal language. The only masking I do is not reacting when someone says something that I don't like but otherwise isn't supposed to be offensive, and not impulsively saying silly things. These silly things pop into my head and although I know that I don't need to say it I still get an impulsive urge to say it, but I'm trying hard not to give in to these impulses to prevent me from sounding ridiculous. But if I didn't give in to any of my social impulses at all, I feel I would be a very dull, boring person and wouldn't be me.

You are right, I think what my problem is is that I can seem to be off sometimes, maybe because I feel slightly intimidated by some people, but I still love social interaction. When having a conversation with somebody, I feel very happy inside. But I am scared of social rejection because it has happened before at a voluntary job I used to do, when trying to be included in the group they kind of kicked me out, like adult version of ''you can't play with us!'' But then I hate being left out of all the gossip and what's going on in the workplace. I care about it. Life is boring when you don't know anything and you're just existing. I desire to be involved. NTs of all people should understand that because they have the same social desires.
But I think I do need to work on the question thing. I'm not the sort to ask people many questions about themselves unless I'm really comfortable with them. I have a poor memory when it comes to remembering people's life statuses, for example if someone texted me and said they have covid and I saw them again 3 weeks later I'll forget that they had covid and so I'd forget to ask how they're feeling. This makes me look disinterested, but I am not. I have ADHD so I don't always remember these things. This is why I want to get diagnosed. I think people knowing I have ADHD will be more useful to me socially than if people knew I had a form of autism, because autism is more misunderstood and is either viewed as stupid or heartless. ADHD describes me a lot better.



I had to study books on body language, and had a counsellor to help me out with it too in my teens - you are lucky you've been able to pick up on it so easily. I'm like Sheldon and get basic errors wrong in speech. Was the voluntary job in a charity shop? They're renowned for being overly cliquey. That happened to me every time I volunteered in a charity shop, there was always some old woman boss who didn't like me and made a point of it. In two of the shops I was basically asked to leave. It wasn't nice, and didn't help my confidence at the time, but since then I've heard many stories of people experiencing exactly the same thing I did. There was this girl with learning difficulties in one of the shops I volunteered at, and I saw this boss just slagging her off right in front of her, even though she clearly had learning difficulties. I said older woman above because unfortunately some older women just hate younger women, or like to find a target to pick on. It isn't mentioned so much these days, and it's probably politically incorrect to mention it, but I think the stereotype of a nasty woman boss still holds true. I remember a man on here having a similar story. So, I highly doubt it was anything you did.

Lol, I forget about people too. Some people can be quite offended by it, but I think most are alright with it if they aren't too sensitive. I forget what I've been told too, I don't know why. I'm definitely viewed in the heartless category by some, unfortunately. It's far more them making massive assumptions about me and not asking me why or what I did what I did, and them rigidly sticking to the social etiquette of hinting (And ghosting/ignoring me until I psychically get the point :roll: ) rather than them just telling me what is actually on their mind. And them expecting me to communicate in the same way - it's exhausting when my mind and speech naturally thinks literally. It's like expecting a Dyslexic to spell properly and being passive-aggressive, and very expectant at them for it, and if they fail, they are rejected. It's not fair, really.


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03 Oct 2021, 3:01 pm

Joe90:
You said "Not being able to make friends is frightening me". Can you tell us more about your frightened feeling?


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03 Oct 2021, 3:49 pm

Fenn wrote:
Joe90:
You said "Not being able to make friends is frightening me". Can you tell us more about your frightened feeling?


1. I might end up completely lost and lonely in the world, if I lose my family or partner (most of my relatives I am closest to are a lot older, and my boyfriend is older too)
2. It makes me feel unhappy because I desire social relationships (friends)
3. I really want to believe I was misdiagnosed with Asperger's and get undiagnosed but not being able to make friends is enough evidence that I am on the stupid spectrum - on the other hand other people with Asperger's seem to have NT friends and be invited out with them so maybe it's my social anxiety that is holding me back
4. I get jealous of my cousins going out and doing things with their friends

All these points put together just makes me feel frightened and isolated.


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03 Oct 2021, 4:06 pm

Funeralempire

Yes, this is exactly the problem. I lack confidence in myself and I fear that I'm going to get socially rejected and be humiliated. Quotes like ''I wasn't talking to you'', ''stop whining'' and ''do you want something??'' are all forms of social rejection in my opinion (the last one depends on how and why it is said). I often take things personally, but not because I don't understand the social cues behind their behaviour, but because I have low self-esteem and think people don't like me, because of a lot of experiences I've had of friends just ghosting me and evaporating from my life. But if a colleague walks by and doesn't speak to me, I understand why it could be (because they're having a bad day or whatever), but then my thoughts start taunting me and I start doubting myself, so I go to seek reassurance from family or friends and they always say the exact thing I knew all along, but I still needed that reassurance to bump up my self-esteem a little. Also I'm suffering from depression because of my mum being ill, so I'm sensitive to everything around me at the moment and I feel I need people's love and friendship more than ever.

@Smudge
Yes it was a charity shop. There was a lot of cliqueness that went on there. The manager there was a middle-aged woman who had favourites and picked on those who she decided weren't her favourites.
I always thought charity shops would be the last places to be bitchy and cliquey, because a lot of volunteers join them to make friends and have something to do, and usually they have learning difficulties or other different neurodiversities so it's not that easy to stand out. The elderly volunteers there were nice, as they didn't get involved in the cliqueness. It's the middle-aged NT (no disabilities or disorders) people who were the nasty ones, and they picked on the other manager there who was actually NT. He was a nice NT, and to me he always seemed outgoing, but inside I believe he was sensitive and I think the cliqueness got to him so much that he soon left his job. Then when the cliquey people left or retired I heard he came back. So I know it wasn't just me they picked on, but even so it still hurts. And because I'm always too nice, I think people prey on that, whether you're on the spectrum or not.


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03 Oct 2021, 4:25 pm

@ Joe90 am thinking nobody knows you better than yourself ..Have found WP as a location for thoughts and ideas and other experiences , whom may have not lived you life, with your experiences.
So their veiws may not apply to you ...but you could use stuff here as handy references. :D


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03 Oct 2021, 5:00 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Funeralempire

Yes, this is exactly the problem. I lack confidence in myself and I fear that I'm going to get socially rejected and be humiliated. Quotes like ''I wasn't talking to you'', ''stop whining'' and ''do you want something??'' are all forms of social rejection in my opinion (the last one depends on how and why it is said). I often take things personally, but not because I don't understand the social cues behind their behaviour, but because I have low self-esteem and think people don't like me, because of a lot of experiences I've had of friends just ghosting me and evaporating from my life. But if a colleague walks by and doesn't speak to me, I understand why it could be (because they're having a bad day or whatever), but then my thoughts start taunting me and I start doubting myself, so I go to seek reassurance from family or friends and they always say the exact thing I knew all along, but I still needed that reassurance to bump up my self-esteem a little. Also I'm suffering from depression because of my mum being ill, so I'm sensitive to everything around me at the moment and I feel I need people's love and friendship more than ever.


I wouldn't have anything to do with such people who spoke to me like that. If I was there with you, I would tell them exactly where to shove it. Who talks to you like that?

Joe90 wrote:
@Smudge
Yes it was a charity shop. There was a lot of cliqueness that went on there. The manager there was a middle-aged woman who had favourites and picked on those who she decided weren't her favourites.
I always thought charity shops would be the last places to be bitchy and cliquey, because a lot of volunteers join them to make friends and have something to do, and usually they have learning difficulties or other different neurodiversities so it's not that easy to stand out. The elderly volunteers there were nice, as they didn't get involved in the cliqueness. It's the middle-aged NT (no disabilities or disorders) people who were the nasty ones, and they picked on the other manager there who was actually NT. He was a nice NT, and to me he always seemed outgoing, but inside I believe he was sensitive and I think the cliqueness got to him so much that he soon left his job. Then when the cliquey people left or retired I heard he came back. So I know it wasn't just me they picked on, but even so it still hurts. And because I'm always too nice, I think people prey on that, whether you're on the spectrum or not.


Middle aged/older, same thing to me. The elderly as a separate category, but included in the bitchiness too. As you said though, not all of them. It surprised me too about charity shops, they're the ones who keep asking for volunteers and need them, you're doing them a big favour, not vice versa. In fact I started hearing about these stories before I joined a few of them, then heard more afterwards.


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03 Oct 2021, 5:19 pm

Joe90 wrote:
1. I might end up completely lost and lonely in the world, if I lose my family or partner (most of my relatives I am closest to are a lot older, and my boyfriend is older too)
2. It makes me feel unhappy because I desire social relationships (friends)
3. I really want to believe I was misdiagnosed with Asperger's and get undiagnosed but not being able to make friends is enough evidence that I am on the stupid spectrum - on the other hand other people with Asperger's seem to have NT friends and be invited out with them so maybe it's my social anxiety that is holding me back
4. I get jealous of my cousins going out and doing things with their friends

All these points put together just makes me feel frightened and isolated.


First - I can completely relate to every one of these. Your feelings are real, they are yours and you have a right to them.
I feel like this too sometimes.

Second -

Some of what you are saying reminds me of a book by David Burns:

Book: Feeling Good
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Feeling-Good-N ... B009UW5X4C

Here is a list of the "Cognitive Distortions" that Burns talks about
https://accounseling.org/cognitive-distortions/

Here is the Burns Depression Check LIst
https://www.fspcares.org/wp-content/upl ... klists.pdf

Anything you can do to work on self-improvement in any of the "Cognitive Distortions" can help you to beat the depression. This includes self talk but also "doing things".

Third -

Things you can do:
Look at this list:
Image

For each category you can try to think of specific things you can do to move forward in each area. You don't have to hit all of them, but consider each one carefully. Any action you CAN take on any of these areas of need will help you to build confidence in yourself and your ability to take care of your self. It is ok if you also want to make a list of things you CANNOT do - which is kind of what I see in your list of fears. But if you can also make a list of things you CAN do too - that will help you to find your way out of the fearful place.

For people on the spectrum studying a book like Emily Post's Etiquette , Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People, Steven Covey's 7 habits or highly Effective People, Jarvis Clutch: Social Spy, and any book on body language can be very helpful,

but ACT and DBT (check youtube) may be helpful too.
ACT and Autism

ACT and Autism (for parents)


DBT

CBT and Autism


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03 Oct 2021, 6:45 pm

Friendship Is Complicated - Autism & Me - Just A Skinny Boy


Autism and Making Friends


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03 Oct 2021, 6:58 pm

Figuring it out: how autism helped me make friends - Tom Stratton - TEDxLewis&ClarkCollege


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04 Oct 2021, 3:32 pm

Thank you all for replying in this thread and giving me sympathy and reassurance. I shall watch those videos when I can focus. :lol:

I feel better now because I had quite a social day at work, and social interaction is the treatment for my depression. I think it would help my depression more if I wasn't working on my own, but I won't go into all that in this thread.


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Empathy score: 61 out of a possible 80. (High)


cyberdad
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04 Oct 2021, 8:59 pm

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Also how functional do you need to be to be successful. For example Elon Musk is the highest profile autistic person in the world right now. He has more money, ,more women and more admiration (I certainly admire his innovation and aspirations) than any other individual on the planet. He is ahead of his time (literally a modern day Nicola Tesla). But Elon is awful at social skills. But he manages and thrives.

Seeing as this site is filled with posts by Aspies saying things like "We're not all super geniuses," the answer is obvious:
Outliers exist, they have other skills/talents that can be used to compensate for their social defiticts. But most Aspies simply have the social deficits without any bells-and-whistles to compensate.

Most NTs are unremarkable....and most Aspies are unremarkable. The only difference is that unremarkable NTs can still get on decently with the majority of people they interact with. With Asperger's, if you don't have some REMARKABLE trait that can be used to look past/compensate for your autism, then you're SOL.


It goes without saying you (or others) will need to make more effort. That's life.
I have seen this posted on this forum but for every step an NT takes an aspie might need 5, 10 or more depending on their personal circumstances.

If you face inherent obstacles/hurdles you can't always demand they be removed because others (NTs) don't face them. Often the individual aspie has to be the one to make an effort themselves. Elon Musk is an outlier but I gauge from this site and others that there are many thousands of aspies who lead normal or close to normal lives engaging with NTs. This isn't mean't to show people up (actually the exact opposite). If they can do it then there is no reason anyone else can't motivate themselves to put their best foot forward.



Jakki
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05 Oct 2021, 8:57 am

Elon Musks circumstances had to be just right .. Not having predator pursuing him as a version
of fun in their lifes . Having to fight against being victimized might inhibit someones ability to thrive like Elon . Especially if the predators are having friends in the low level legal system.
Had learned about so many ways to harass a person legal and illegally that i never cared to have ever know about . If you do scientific research and you have people in the area that keep stealing equipment and supplies and they have friends in your local law enforcement and their own relatives supporting their actions . Inspite of physical safeguards you have undertaken .
(This does not include your own personal aspie issues,of day to day stuff )
You might have a failure to thrive. Inspite of 20 yrs of efforts . Elon was a lucky man in lucky circumstances . Probably with a very rich family aswell . Sorry to be a debbie downer. But some parts of life can be very real.


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