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YourMother
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20 Jul 2011, 7:10 pm

Descartes wrote:
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CockneyRebel wrote:
I believe more in creation, but if you believe the other way, I'm also cool with that. 8)



Initiating flame war: That belief is nothing short of RIDICULOUS. It is absolutely and absurdly ignorant.


Must you?


YESSSSS!! ! :evil:



TheBicyclingGuitarist
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20 Jul 2011, 8:18 pm

It IS possible to accept evolution AND believe in a Creator. Some people say you can't, but they set up a false dichotomy.

The idea of there being a Creator is beyond science to disprove. Evolution MIGHT be due to the guiding hand or plan of God. However, the young earth creationist viewpoint of the earth being ten thousand years old or less and humans not being biological cousins to other species does not have any evidence supporting it and literally TONS of evidence falsifying it.

MOST people who argue against evolution have been grossly misinformed about it. Sad to say, but many Christians spread blatant LIES about what evidence exists. They ignore much and distort or deny what they don't ignore. It's sad that so many people are basing their opinions on misinformation.

It does no good to start a flame war though, especially with someone who says that they have no problem with people of dissenting viewpoints. I have studied this subject intensely for more than forty years now, and I am amazed that so many people are still so grossly misinformed about it, especially since some of the most stunning evidence (Tiktaalik, human chromosome 2) has been found in the past twenty years. To deny the fact of evolution is just as ridiculous and just as wrong as to insist the earth is flat in spite of all evidence to the contrary. It really is that obvious to anyone who honestly examines the evidence.


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TheBicyclingGuitarist
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21 Jul 2011, 12:50 am

YourMother wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I believe more in creation, but if you believe the other way, I'm also cool with that. 8)



Initiating flame war: That belief is nothing short of RIDICULOUS. It is absolutely and absurdly ignorant.


And it is incredibly arrogant to assume that science can prove whether or not there is a creator. That goes just as far to the opposite extreme and is just as unsupported as the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint. Note that CockneyRebel did NOT say the YEC version of creation. As Ashley Montagu said: "The scientist believes in proof without certainty; the bigot in certainty without proof."

I agree that the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint is demonstrably out of touch with reality. But believing there is a creator doesn't necessarily mean one subscribes to the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint. Frankly, most people don't really care one way or the other. They just go about their daily lives trying to put food on the table. As I said before though, MOST of those who argue against the fact of evolution do so because they have been LIED to about this subject by sources they trust such as creationist web sites that keep repeating lies proven wrong long ago or misinformed preachers.

Even with the YEC viewpoint, I would not go so far as to say it is wrong, only that there is NO evidence that supports it and much evidence of many different types that falsifies it. What I WOULD say is that IF the YEC opinion is true, then the Creator went to an awful lot of trouble to make it look like it is false, for whatever reason (to test our faith maybe?).


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YourMother
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21 Jul 2011, 5:23 am

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
YourMother wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I believe more in creation, but if you believe the other way, I'm also cool with that. 8)



Initiating flame war: That belief is nothing short of RIDICULOUS. It is absolutely and absurdly ignorant.


And it is incredibly arrogant to assume that science can prove whether or not there is a creator. That goes just as far to the opposite extreme and is just as unsupported as the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint.



I never said anything about God, I was just saying that the belief that the Earth is only 6, 000 years old is ridiculous and absurdly ignorant.



YourMother
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21 Jul 2011, 5:26 am

Oops, doublepost.



TheBicyclingGuitarist
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21 Jul 2011, 5:53 am

YourMother wrote:
TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
YourMother wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I believe more in creation, but if you believe the other way, I'm also cool with that. 8)



Initiating flame war: That belief is nothing short of RIDICULOUS. It is absolutely and absurdly ignorant.


And it is incredibly arrogant to assume that science can prove whether or not there is a creator. That goes just as far to the opposite extreme and is just as unsupported as the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint.



I never said anything about God, I was just saying that the belief that the Earth is only 6, 000 years old is ridiculous and absurdly ignorant.


But CockneyRebel never said anything about the earth only being 6,000 years old (at least not in this thread), only that he believed "more" in creation than evolution. Like I said, that doesn't necessarily mean he subscribes to the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint. Even if he does though, the most probable reason is he has been misinformed about this subject. You apparently assumed that any belief in "creation" automatically means one is a YEC, which isn't always the case. This is yet another example of how the ignorance and dishonesty of some creationists makes all religious people look really stupid and out of touch with reality. The Young Earth Creationists do more to turn people away from Christ than any other group I know of. Perhaps they work for Satan without realizing it (if there is a Satan, of course, lol).

I am careful to not say that the YEC viewpoint is "wrong," only that it is NOT supported by the evidence. ALL the evidence yet found supports an ancient earth and common descent, but the YEC's ignore, distort or deny the evidence because it conflicts with their interpretation of the Bible. Most of those arguing against evolution sincerely believe the evidence supports their position, and that it is just a matter of one's worldview in interpreting the evidence. Unfortunately for the credibility of Christianity, there are many LIES being told from the pulpit about this. It really is just as stupid as if one's preacher were to tell you the earth is flat, and if parents lobbied school boards for equal time for the flat earth theory in public schools. That really is absurdly ignorant, as you recognize.


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21 Jul 2011, 5:24 pm

MONKEY wrote:
I have a massive special interest in evolution, mostly evolutionary anthropology. I am a lot like your friend, when I talk about human behaviour and dating and other social things I describe it like Desmond Morris (the famous zoologist that had that "human animal" documentary series.) I do like to explain it as if I was studying another species of primate instead of my own, to avoid the arrogance that is common in people when describing themselves. I find it rather fun to watch social interactions and pretend I'm on a nature programme. :lol:

@ iamnotaparakeet, only if you want one. If that is the case go to PPR[1].


[1] :lol: :roll:

On topic and in regard this post, I am pretty much the same though I avoid the 'removing myself from the equation' approach.
Evolution whether you believe in a god or creation in any way is going on all the time, it is called change and adaption to change from the subtle ecosystem changes of a huge rainforest to the genreation by generation resistance to antibiotics of a virus.
It occurs all the time and only a fool denies the validity of it's easily demonstrated existence.
My particular interest is in cultural evolution and diversity in the 'higher apes' - anthropology/sociology/psychology but this nescessitates a broader scope of reading as all the factors to consider are quite simply mindbendingly complex [for me].

peace j


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YourMother
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21 Jul 2011, 8:38 pm

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
YourMother wrote:
TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
YourMother wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I believe more in creation, but if you believe the other way, I'm also cool with that. 8)



Initiating flame war: That belief is nothing short of RIDICULOUS. It is absolutely and absurdly ignorant.


And it is incredibly arrogant to assume that science can prove whether or not there is a creator. That goes just as far to the opposite extreme and is just as unsupported as the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint.



I never said anything about God, I was just saying that the belief that the Earth is only 6, 000 years old is ridiculous and absurdly ignorant.


But CockneyRebel never said anything about the earth only being 6,000 years old (at least not in this thread), only that she believed "more" in creation than evolution.


Yes, but in that context "creation" would appear to mean YEC.



Raymond_Fawkes
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21 Jul 2011, 8:49 pm

I believe in micro-evolution, and macro to some extent